The Xindi War and the Kelvin Timeline

[Captain Alan Wayne III]

I would like to throw a caveat in the discussion. Given Simon Peggs recent comments about the canon of the "Kelvin Timeline" http://simonpegg.net/2016/07/11/a-word-about-canon/ Quoting Simon Pegg:"Spock’s incursion from the Prime Universe created a multidimensional reality shift. The rift in space/time created an entirely new reality in all directions, top to bottom, from the Big Bang to the end of everything. As such this reality was, is and always will be subtly different from the Prime Universe. "

A lot of fans are assuming that what happened to the Franklin in regard to the ship missing, also happened in the Prime Timeline. Neros incursion did not just impact the present, it also impacted the past of that universe. We saw that in the Next Generation episode "Yesterday's Enterprise". When that ship came forward in time it altered the past as well as the present creating a generation of Starfleet Officers who knew nothing but war with the Klingons. The Xindi and Romulan conflicts were perhaps radically different from the original Timeline in the Kelvin TImeline. I have never heard the Xindi incident referred to as a war. I don't think that was an accident.Perhaps in the 'Kelvin Timeline' Earth responded with military force as opposed to sending a lone ship into the Expanse. It is suggested that Kralls experiences in both wars were very personal. Krall became Captain of the Franklin in 2161 which is the same year the Federation was founded. It is suggested that the Federation was founded and entrenched prior to his transfer. If you go back to Into Darkness, they were vague about the Eugenics Wars suggesting it took place during a 'World War'.

I think fans spend a lot of time trying to reconcile the prime and kelvin timelines but it may be time to stop doing that and accept that the Kelvin Timeline including past and present events are going to be radically different. If you watch all three films you will see that there is a clear divergence and it runs in two directions.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Krall mentions the Xindi terrorist attack and the Romulan war that cost millions of lives. I don't think the Xindi thing is referred to as a war.

I think if we can accept them shoehorning an entire famous starship Enterprise in before Kirk's (which no-one ever ever talked about), I don't think a warp four prototype being built before that warp five prototype, which was lost in the 2260's. It just seems silly to accept one and the other be unacceptable.

 

[Klondike307]

He said they "lost millions to the Xindi and the Romulans", he doesn't talk about a Xindi war but does reference their attack on Earth. His background as a MACO and his command of the Franklin after the founding of the Federation fit's perfectly into the Enterprise era that serves as the past for both timelines.

Edit: Spelling

 

[Enterprise1701]

Krall/Edison spoke about fighting Xindi and Romulans. He never said "Xindi war".

But it is true that going by Simon Pegg's comments makes things less complicated. If we assume (as many have done prior to Pegg's statement) that the Kelvin Timeline is completely identical to the prime timeline prior to Nero's arrival in 2233, then that makes it silly why Krall/Edison wouldn't mention serving aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise's identically-named precursor. It's not an error per se, but it seems silly that Edison wouldn't name-drop something highly relevant to the situation.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Simon Pegg's comment makes sense. The Kelvin timeline means no TNG and DS9 as we know it. Captain Archer's part in the timeline may be somewhat less altered, but there will still be alterations...

 

[Mach5]

He said they "lost millions to the Xindi and the Romulans"

I remembered that line as "millions were lost to the Xindi and the Romulan wars".

 

[Kemaiku]

2 million died in the Xindi weapon test on Florida alone wasn't it?

Deneb was firebombed at warp by the Romulans killing hundreds of millions to even start the war. Both had huge casualties.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Simon Pegg's comment makes sense. The Kelvin timeline means no TNG and DS9 as we know it. Captain Archer's part in the timeline may be somewhat less altered, but there will still be alterations...

Elaborate. What does TNG and DS9 have to do with the pre-2233 past?

 

[mattman8907]

I remembered that line as "millions were lost to the Xindi and the Romulan wars".

see this is why we need a Earth-Romulan movie/TV Show. So we can see how deadly it was.

Elaborate. What does TNG and DS9 have to do with the pre-2233 past?

Basically pegg was saying that when the Narada and Nero came through the blackhole in 2233 and destroyed the USS Kelvin it altered time all through the known universe.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

And if the Kelvin timeline is disrupted, that means TNG and DS9 won't happen the same way in this timeline...

 

[Klondike307]

see this is why we need a Earth-Romulan movie/TV Show. So we can see how deadly it was.

They did a two book Romulan War series with characters from Enterpise, I haven't read it though.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Enterprise_-_The_Romulan_War
It must have been a pretty vicious war if people, like Stiles, are still salty about it a hundred years later.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

I remembered that line as "millions were lost to the Xindi and the Romulan wars".

The Romulan Wars have been referred to in the plural like that in some sources, such as the Okudas' Chronology, from which a computer display seen onscreen in "In A Mirror Darkly" (ENT) was derived.

 

[Kemaiku]

The Romulan War novels give a good idea of how bloody the conflict was...

Spoiler

Right down to one of the reasons for not seeing Romulans in the flesh being the retaking of Starbase 1 by the MACO'S being helped by the Berangarian Dragons roasting the Rommies alive, leaving only ashes behind

 

[Captain Alan Wayne III]

I liked the idea of them touching on it in this film and I like the idea of that time in Federation history being a gritty war torn time. I would love to see that expanded on in a film. That would be cool. I would imagine founding the Federation and dealing with hostile alien races was a lot harder than it was portrayed in Enterprise. You can't create paradise without some hardship. I hate that they left the Klingon plot line unresolved. I guess it is safe to say the Empire never discovered that it was Kirk and his crew that led that invaded the Klingon home world.

 

[Klondike307]

I liked the idea of them touching on it in this film and I like the idea of that time in Federation history being a gritty war torn time. I would love to see that expanded on in a film. That would be cool. I would imagine founding the Federation and dealing with hostile alien races was a lot harder than it was portrayed in Enterprise. You can't create paradise without some hardship...

I would love seeing Edison's back story as even a book. On a personal level, it could follow Edison as he joins the MACOs, loses people to the Xindi attack, and rises to become a hero of the Romulan War. It could then deal with his fall as he struggles to find his place in a post military Federation where, as captain of the Franklin, he's expected to work diplomatically alongside those he was trained to hate and fight. On a larger scale it could deal with Humanity trying to cast off the last shackles of it's barbaric past, even when it's surrounded by death and war, and take its place among the stars.

Edit: It would also be cool because not only would it be a prequel novel to ST: Beyond in the Kelvin Timeline but would also double as a stand alone novel in the Prime Timeline since the events leading to his disappearance happen long before Nero's intervention.

 

[Keith1701]

Krall mentions the Xindi terrorist attack and the Romulan war that cost millions of lives. I don't think the Xindi thing is referred to as a war.

I think if we can accept them shoehorning an entire famous starship Enterprise in before Kirk's (which no-one ever ever talked about), I don't think a warp four prototype being built before that warp five prototype, which was lost in the 2260's. It just seems silly to accept one and the other be unacceptable.

Yes, I noticed this myself.

 

[The Wormhole]

I hate that they left the Klingon plot line unresolved. I guess it is safe to say the Empire never discovered that it was Kirk and his crew that led that invaded the Klingon home world.

There is no Klingon plotline to resolve. The Klingons were a minor part of STID's overall plot and nothing more.

 

[Windstriker]

I hate to do this but I can see some logic in Simon Pegg's assertion that even the past would be different in the Kelvin universe. Think about it, the various Star Trek crews have all time traveled at some point. In the Kelvin universe they may or may not experience time travel in the same way that the Prime timeline's crews did thus changing the past. Maybe the timetravelers that Archer had to deal with in the prime universe where different in the kelvin timeline.

 

[Mytran]

I agree: The Trek Prime timeline is replete with temporal incursions, many of which could easily be argued to be self perpetuating causality loops.

Without them, its amazing that the Trek timeline would exist at all!
Yet clearly it does :-)

 

[CaptainDonovin]

2 million died in the Xindi weapon test on Florida alone wasn't it?

Deneb was firebombed at warp by the Romulans killing hundreds of millions to even start the war. Both had huge casualties.

Thought it was seven million, stretching from Florida to Venezuela.