I hate to be the technically guy, but technically until Nero showed up and destroyed the Kelvin, Prime and Kelvin timelines are the same right?
Star Trek Discovery
- Thread starter JoeZhang
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I hate to be the technically guy, but technically until Nero showed up and destroyed the Kelvin, Prime and Kelvin timelines are the same right?
My gripes are that the graphics and mechanical design are subpar. Star Trek Online a five year old game has better graphics than this! I sincerely hope that this is just for the teaser and not a sample of what we will be subjected to.
As for the design it seems to be based on the rejected Ralph Mcquarrie Enterprise (emphasis Rejected). Way too hideous for a hero ship, again Star Trek Online a five year old free to play game has better mechanical designs than this and that game has churned out some hideous stuff.
I'm hoping (pure speculation here) is that this ship is a prototype for the discovery kind of like what the NX-Alpha was to the NX-01 and our hero ship is something much better looking not something dubious ripped from REJECTED concept art or a blatant rip off of another ship (remember the Akiraprise debacle?)
Again Star Trek online a f2p game five years old has better looking stuff than this. Check out the Odyssey variants released for that game earlier this year even if you hate the Enterprise F you have to admit they are better than this. Heck half the entries for the design an Enterprise contest are better than this and people did that for free!
Perhaps this isn't the hero ship, or they might explain why they picked this design if it is, but my first impressions aren't good but maybe this will grow on me like the NX-01 did.
As for the design it seems to be based on the rejected Ralph Mcquarrie Enterprise (emphasis Rejected). Way too hideous for a hero ship, again Star Trek Online a five year old free to play game has better mechanical designs than this and that game has churned out some hideous stuff.
I'm hoping (pure speculation here) is that this ship is a prototype for the discovery kind of like what the NX-Alpha was to the NX-01 and our hero ship is something much better looking not something dubious ripped from REJECTED concept art or a blatant rip off of another ship (remember the Akiraprise debacle?)
Again Star Trek online a f2p game five years old has better looking stuff than this. Check out the Odyssey variants released for that game earlier this year even if you hate the Enterprise F you have to admit they are better than this. Heck half the entries for the design an Enterprise contest are better than this and people did that for free!
Perhaps this isn't the hero ship, or they might explain why they picked this design if it is, but my first impressions aren't good but maybe this will grow on me like the NX-01 did.
If this is set in the 2190's or something like that, then yes. The Kelvin universe only exists as a separate entity from April 2233 onwards. Whatever we see prior to that date happened in both, meaning this series would be exempt from that argument.
It's the top right shot here...
There were others I can't find online. I have the copy somewhere in storage.
Thank you.
@The Mighty Monkey of Mim was able to provide a more than sufficiently useful link, and he and others cleared up my confusion. Thanks to all.
There's always been some debate on that in fandom. Dialogue in ST'09 suggests yes, but Simon Pegg recently weighed in on the opposite side:
With the Kelvin timeline, we are not entirely beholden to existing canon, this is an alternate reality and, as such is full of new and alternate possibilities. “BUT WAIT!” I hear you brilliant and beautiful super Trekkies cry, “Canon tells us, Hikaru Sulu was born before the Kelvin incident, so how could his fundamental humanity be altered? Well, the explanation comes down to something very Star Treky; theoretical, quantum physics and the less than simple fact that time is not linear. Sure, we experience time as a contiguous series of cascading events but perception and reality aren’t always the same thing. Spock’s incursion from the Prime Universe created a multidimensional reality shift. The rift in space/time created an entirely new reality in all directions, top to bottom, from the Big Bang to the end of everything. As such this reality was, is and always will be subtly different from the Prime Universe. I don’t believe for one second that Gene Roddenberry wouldn’t have loved the idea of an alternate reality (Mirror, Mirror anyone?). This means, and this is absolutely key, the Kelvin universe can evolve and change in ways that don’t necessarily have to follow the Prime Universe at any point in history, before or after the events of Star Trek ‘09, it can mutate and subvert, it is a playground for the new and the progressive and I know in my heart, that Gene Roddenberry would be proud of us for keeping his ideals alive. Infinite diversity in infinite combinations, this was his dream, that is our dream, it should be everybody’s.
Who knows where Fuller stands...
I've always found it funny that people were asking themselves; is it going to be set in the prime timeline or is it going to be set in the JJ-verse timeline?
The JJ-verse never had and never will have a future beyond the current series of movies because the only reason that there is this divergent 'timeline' is because the guy behind these nuTrek movies felt it was too much bother to be faithful to all that existing canon. That's it. If ever the same situation comes up where someone isn't willing to have to deal with all that content that came before, it's not going to be a question of prime or JJ-verse timeline, there will simply be another clean sheet, new 'timeline' created.
I guess what I'm trying to say is (at least IMO) there never was a prime or new timeline. It's just too daunting for some people to have to deal with so much existing content in a particular universe, so they explain it away with the rather silly notion of different timelines.
The JJ-verse never had and never will have a future beyond the current series of movies because the only reason that there is this divergent 'timeline' is because the guy behind these nuTrek movies felt it was too much bother to be faithful to all that existing canon. That's it. If ever the same situation comes up where someone isn't willing to have to deal with all that content that came before, it's not going to be a question of prime or JJ-verse timeline, there will simply be another clean sheet, new 'timeline' created.
I guess what I'm trying to say is (at least IMO) there never was a prime or new timeline. It's just too daunting for some people to have to deal with so much existing content in a particular universe, so they explain it away with the rather silly notion of different timelines.
Registry seems to imply it's 10 years before TOS and if so, I'm happy with that. The ship looks....well, it looks like a hybrid of the worst of a Romulan warbird and a Klingon D7. But, look, I'm happy enough with most of the signs coming from this series sofar and I like the ship better than I like the NX-01, so we'll see.
I agree. There are too many divergent issues for JJTrek to have a shared history with the REAL(what some call "prime") Trek universe.
10 years prior to Kirks command the Enterprise was still 1701. And presumably the Constellation was still 1017. The registry number tells us nothing as specific as 10 years.
10 years prior to Kirks command the Enterprise was still 1701. And presumably the Constellation was still 1017. The registry number tells us nothing as specific as 10 years.
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My guess is that this footage was rendered at a premature stage to wet the whistles of fans like us who are eager to get glimpses of the new show. It's not (relatively) difficult to produce photorealistic CGI of this sort of thing, so the final product will likely be more polished.
That being said, I don't care. The quality of the visual effects are far less important than other aspects of the show. If the producers' goal was to catch the attention of fans like me who care about Trek and its legacy, they totally succeeded. Riffing off of Phase 1 designs was brilliant because it speaks to the possibilities of Star Trek—and in Trek, possibility is everything.
In my subjective opinion, the NCC-1701 is not an elegant design. I find it clumsy, improbable and difficult to justify. It is also unbelievably iconic and beloved. Elegance isn't everything.
That being said, I don't care. The quality of the visual effects are far less important than other aspects of the show. If the producers' goal was to catch the attention of fans like me who care about Trek and its legacy, they totally succeeded. Riffing off of Phase 1 designs was brilliant because it speaks to the possibilities of Star Trek—and in Trek, possibility is everything.
In my subjective opinion, the NCC-1701 is not an elegant design. I find it clumsy, improbable and difficult to justify. It is also unbelievably iconic and beloved. Elegance isn't everything.
In theory though we could see a post Star Trek 09 with a destroyed Romulas? I think that would be the only glaring difference that happened to the Prime timeline before Nero went back and broke things.
I haven't read through this entire thread but...
First of all, I want to say that ultimately I'm just thrilled there's a new series being made and a new chapter is being added to the Trek franchise.
However, the design of the ship is....uhh, not good. The visual effects are surely not representative of what the actual show will appear like...right? They're surely not going to air the pilot episode on CBS around the globe with fx like that. Right?
The placement in the timeline is what's more concerning to me. Star Trek is probably the single worst franchise to attempt a backstory series. The single worst. The canon is enormous and meticulously followed and challenged. I'll always maintain it was one of the reasons for ENT's failures. And it just wasn't popular. It's baffling to me that Fuller and crew would analyze all of the series and essentially make their new show a sequel to the one series that failed. Not following that line of thinking...at all.
I'm still excited. Everything about this is worrying though.
Except for the name -- Discovery. Love it. Great choice to give it a name in the first place and then to give it an appropriate and elegant name for Trek. Solid choices.
Got some work to do....
First of all, I want to say that ultimately I'm just thrilled there's a new series being made and a new chapter is being added to the Trek franchise.
However, the design of the ship is....uhh, not good. The visual effects are surely not representative of what the actual show will appear like...right? They're surely not going to air the pilot episode on CBS around the globe with fx like that. Right?
The placement in the timeline is what's more concerning to me. Star Trek is probably the single worst franchise to attempt a backstory series. The single worst. The canon is enormous and meticulously followed and challenged. I'll always maintain it was one of the reasons for ENT's failures. And it just wasn't popular. It's baffling to me that Fuller and crew would analyze all of the series and essentially make their new show a sequel to the one series that failed. Not following that line of thinking...at all.
I'm still excited. Everything about this is worrying though.
Except for the name -- Discovery. Love it. Great choice to give it a name in the first place and then to give it an appropriate and elegant name for Trek. Solid choices.
Got some work to do....
There is endless debate about that just like there is about everything else. The three schools of thought are thus:
1. One timeline branching into two when Nero goes through the black hole.
2. Two timelines always existed separately, Nero just went from one to the other
3. One timeline branched into two complete timelines when Nero goes through the black hole. In this theory, there is some weird quantum retroactive effect echoing back to the beginning of time that makes this timeline wholly different than the prime, although technically it didn't start until Nero came through the black hole. Sort of a paradox like the anomaly in 'All Good Things.'
Take yer pick!
My impression of the teaser was not very favourable. I love the old Ralph McQuarrie Planet of the Titans concept art, but this execution of it left me cold.
I don't like the way they've taken a very angular and harsh design and added a bunch of smooth bulges and bumps to the saucer top. It doesn't fit. I'm surprised by the size of the ship, it appears the idea of pre-TOS starships (and I'm assuming it's pre-TOS by the hull number, which is admittedly not much of an indicator) being USS Kelvin massive has been carried on. I do like the Kelvin influence, the saucer rim, hull colour, spine behind the bridge and even the windows are very reminiscent of the ST'09 opening. Squint a little and this could be a sister ship.
My biggest problem was that nothing felt new. It was the same old ship undocking sequence we've seen a million times since The Motion Picture, with many of the same angles seen in that movie and in Enterpise's pilot, "Broken Bow". I want fresh and new Trek, not a rehash. The series is called Star Trek: Discovery. Even the name is a rehash of Star-Trek-colon-ship-name seen in three TOS spin-offs and countless fan films.
The Klingon music was nice.
Two new Star Trek hero ships unveiled in three days for me, and both underwhelmed. I'm becoming one of those fans
I don't like the way they've taken a very angular and harsh design and added a bunch of smooth bulges and bumps to the saucer top. It doesn't fit. I'm surprised by the size of the ship, it appears the idea of pre-TOS starships (and I'm assuming it's pre-TOS by the hull number, which is admittedly not much of an indicator) being USS Kelvin massive has been carried on. I do like the Kelvin influence, the saucer rim, hull colour, spine behind the bridge and even the windows are very reminiscent of the ST'09 opening. Squint a little and this could be a sister ship.
My biggest problem was that nothing felt new. It was the same old ship undocking sequence we've seen a million times since The Motion Picture, with many of the same angles seen in that movie and in Enterpise's pilot, "Broken Bow". I want fresh and new Trek, not a rehash. The series is called Star Trek: Discovery. Even the name is a rehash of Star-Trek-colon-ship-name seen in three TOS spin-offs and countless fan films.
The Klingon music was nice.
Two new Star Trek hero ships unveiled in three days for me, and both underwhelmed. I'm becoming one of those fans
While Pegg's Retroactive Causality Clause may be useful in the future, as the Cho Birthdate Fallacy seems to be the reason for him to make it known, I don't know if we need to take it into account just yet.
(Canon does not, in fact, tell us that Sulu was born before the Kelvin disaster; that seems to be a mistake with the birthdates of Cho and Pine vs. that of Takei/Shatner.) TC
I can't speak for Jax whom you are quoting, but to me it just feels like the most obvious and unimaginative name they could have thought of. Of course they shouldn't go for something weird just to be different (no one wants Star Trek: Crazy Horse)
But we still don't know that this is a sequel to Enterprise. Fuller specifically said that he wouldn't reveal where in the timeline it takes place.
I'm thinking there might be something there in regards to Section 31. A ship built in secret, for a long-term classified Starfleet mission.
Others are thinking the same as well - Herc Has A Crackpot Theory About The NCC-1031!!
There is endless debate about that just like there is about everything else. The three schools of thought are thus:
1. One timeline branching into two when Nero goes through the black hole.
2. Two timelines always existed separately, Nero just went from one to the other
3. One timeline branched into two complete timelines when Nero goes through the black hole. In this theory, there is some weird quantum retroactive effect echoing back to the beginning of time that makes this timeline wholly different than the prime, although technically it didn't start until Nero came through the black hole. Sort of a paradox like the anomaly in 'All Good Things.'
Take yer pick!
4. The so-called "prime" timeline is the real Star Trek timeline and the other(JJverse) never existed at all but is an abomination that is best ignored.
