Spoilers NX Class in Beyond

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

This is a bit of a stretch...the fact that a Warp 4 engine wasn't mentioned doesn't mean it didn't happen between the Warp 2 and Warp 5 engines. Just go with our theory :-)

No, I mean its more that that - there was circumstantial evidence suggesting there wasn't - rather than an absense of evidence.

Like for example, Earth freighters with warp 2 engines are encountered who talk about how Archer's ship will mean they will have to "upgrade their engine to the new warp 5 engine", etc. Maybe you could argue they didn't specifically rule out other starships in Earth Starfleet having warp 4 engines however. Then there is the warp 5 test program episodes - someone is going to have to go over the dialogue, but I think that at least implied warp 5 was a leap from warp 2 - maybe I'm wrong.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The only problem with the theory you guys are all going for is that in the TV series ENT, it sounds like there was no intermediate step between the warp 2 engine and warp 5 engine.

Remember, until Star Trek: Enterprise, there was no famous Starfleet starship named Enterprise prior to Kirk's at all! That was a massive recton, this is a little one.

I'd need to rewatch "First Flight" to be sure, but I think the Franklin's construction and launch can fit between the flashbacks of "First Flight" and "Broken Bow"

 

[Tuskin38]

Maybe the Franklin was the first ship dedicated for just Warp 4 travel. A smaller cheaper alternative to the Warp 5 NX-Class.

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

@King Daniel Beyond :

If you could pin down the dialogue, we would all be most grateful.

It's hard to recall just from memory whether there was anything that specifically ruled out a warp 4 ship.

 

[Oso Blanco]

This could be yet another alternate timeline. Enterprise (the series) was based on the fact that the Borg invaded Earth in the past, only to be stopped by the TNG crew. In the Kelvin Timeline, the Borg may never have gone back in time ... and everything from First Contact Day onwards probably unfolds quite differently.

That brings up some more interesting questions ... did all the timetravels from the Prime Universe happen in the Kelvin Timeline's past as well? Is Data's head still burried in San Francisco? Who knows!

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

Some quick watching revealed:

"Broken Bow" indeed says "warp 4.5" - so it could indeed be that the ship fits between the flashbacks of "First Flight" and "Broken Bow".

In "Fortunate Son" trip says to the captain of the ECS Fortunate that "this is the new warp 5 engine, once they get installed on the next generation of freighters, it'll change a whole lot of things" - the max speed of the Y-class Fortunate is warp 1.8. Inconclusive. But then Mayweather says "even with a warp 3 engine you could cut down your transit time to months", making it possible there was a warp 3 engine, just not used on Y-class freighters yet.

But, I'm not sure if there might be something somewhere in an episode saying "the next fastest ship can only do warp 2" or something of that sort.

 

[F. King Daniel]

One thing I don't think can be disputed anymore is Ambassador Spock's origin:

Spoiler: Star Trek Beyond

This photo among his personal possessions.

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

This could be yet another alternate timeline. Enterprise (the series) was based on the fact that the Borg invaded Earth in the past, only to be stopped by the TNG crew. In the Kelvin Timeline, the Borg may never have gone back in time ... and everything from First Contact Day onwards probably unfolds quite differently.

That brings up some more interesting questions ... did all the timetravels from the Prime Universe happen in the Kelvin Timeline's past as well? Is Data's head still burried in San Francisco? Who knows!

There is something in Into Darkness that makes this extremely unlikely - the presence of models of the Enterprise NX-01 and Archer's Warp 5 test project ship on the Admiral's display. Any significant change would have altered this bolt-for-bolt reproduction, due to a butterfly effect.

 

[Oso Blanco]

There is something in Into Darkness that makes this extremely unlikely - the presence of models of the Enterprise NX-01 and Archer's Warp 5 test project ship on the Admiral's display. Any significant change would have altered this bolt-for-bolt reproduction, due to a butterfly effect.

Good point. But using in-universe logic it would still be a possibility. In "Yesterday's Enterprise" we still had the same ship with almost the same crew, which was extremely unlikely, considering almost twenty years of changed history.

 

[F. King Daniel]

While I ascribe to the timelines-branched-in-2233 interpretation of the Kelvinverse, Spock's "currents of time" from CotEoF explain the same or suspiciously similar stuff happening to the same people across endless timelines.

 

[Oso Blanco]

It's just that ... now that the timeline has branched in 2233, the future is different from the one in the Prime Universe. Timetravel events that changed the Prime Universe Past will probably not happen in the Kelvin Timeline. The big question is whether or not the Kelvin Timeline is still being influenced by time travel incursions from the Prime Timeline ... do I make any sense?

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

Good point. But using in-universe logic it would still be a possibility. In "Yesterday's Enterprise" we still had the same ship with almost the same crew, which was extremely unlikely, considering almost twenty years of changed history.

Actually, if you think about it, that was a much smaller change in the timeline - the Enterprise C disappears at the same battle anyway - it's just that by fighting bravely on, maybe a small change in Klingon attitudes occurs, leading to a war years later after the Galaxy class has already been comissioned.

By contrast, the new Kelvin timeline has always been a massive change, by any previous standard - introducing 25th century technology into the 23rd century - destroying a starship that wouldn't have been destroyed, ending many lives prematurely, which would have lived decades longer - ending the Kelvin's mission prematurely - etc.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I think it does. We could assume that the Prime Universe does have consequences for the Kelvin Timeline.

 

[Oso Blanco]

leading to a war years later after the Galaxy class has already been comissioned

I might be wrong, but I think I remember that the war started way before the Galaxy Class was commissioned.

Anyway, the future was changed by Nero ... and since in the Prime Timeline the past had been altered on several occasions, the question remains if that also affects the Kelvin Timeline.

 

[Captain_Amasov]

I have a headcanon notion that the reason why no one batted an eyelid at the name and registry of the USS Dauntless NX-01-A on "Voyager" was because the original NX-01 was named Dauntless. The change occurred because Zefram Cochrane saw and knew the name Enterprise in "First Contact", so he somehow got the NX-01 named Enterprise instead, further altering the timeline.

 

[Kemaiku]

Remember, until Star Trek: Enterprise, there was no famous Starfleet starship named Enterprise prior to Kirk's at all! That was a massive recton, this is a little one.

I'd need to rewatch "First Flight" to be sure, but I think the Franklin's construction and launch can fit between the flashbacks of "First Flight" and "Broken Bow"

The episode covered up to the NX Delta breaking Warp 3. The it goes back to the modern day, skipping a good many years between that and the launch of the NX-01. Anything could have happened with an NX-Gamma or something bigger than a two man rocket.

 

[Karp666]

My understanding is that the Franklin was the first ship to reach warp 4, which means it pre-dates Enterprise NX-01, and went missing in the 2260's.

Built before Enterprise, lost after it.

My understanding is that the Franklin was the first ship to reach warp 4, which means it pre-dates Enterprise NX-01, and went missing in the 2260's.

Built before Enterprise, lost after it.

That's how I understood it as well. It was clearly stated in the movie that it went missing in the 2160s; and knowing Edison was given command of it after the war we can assume it's already been quite old. I don't think they would give a brand new ship to the guy who has just left the military, especially when there is no indication he's captained anything before.

 

[Enterprise1701]

The Franklin was not NX class. Unless (a potential theory not stated in the film) it was some manner of refitted NX class à la TMP Enterprise, "All Good Things" Enterprise-D, or the Columbia class from the novels. Its plaque said "STARSHIP CLASS", not unlike that of the TOS Enterprise. And it was definitely an Earth ship which was transferred to the Federation Starfleet upon the formation of the Federation. Scotty called it an Earth ship, and then records show that Edison was given command of it after MACO had been disbanded.

 

[Stevil2001]

The Franklin could have been the work of a competing project to the NX Project that the NX-01 and Archer's test ships were part of. Maybe no one mentions it on Enterprise out of politeness.

ARCHER: And we went straight from the NX-Delta to this mighty ship.
MAYWEATHER: *coughs politely*

 

[F. King Daniel]

I prefer:

ARCHER: And nobody EVER mention the Franklin. I hate those assholes.