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Can We Say Garak Turned the tide/won the war?

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Just rewatched In The Pale Moonlight. Do you think we can we accurately say that it was Garak who was the individual most responsible for turning the tide and, eventually, winning the war by destroying Senator Vreenak's shuttle and bringing the Romulans into the war against the Dominion? Did everything hinge on this event?
 
If Garak is responsible for winning the war, surely Odo is responsible for saving many lives by joining with the Female Changeling and agreeing to go back to the Link.
 
Just rewatched In The Pale Moonlight. Do you think we can we accurately say that it was Garak who was the individual most responsible for turning the tide and, eventually, winning the war by destroying Senator Vreenak's shuttle and bringing the Romulans into the war against the Dominion? Did everything hinge on this event?
The inference is that it is pivotal, yes. That isn't to say there weren't other pivot points in addition to Garak's intervention here. I like that episode because it's easy to forget that with Garak's slippery charisma he's capable of brute acts to achieve concrete aims uncumbered by the kind of handwringing our heroes get up to.
 
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Garak's intervention was certainly necessary to win the war but there are several other points where one person's actions kept the Federation's hopes alive. For example, if Garak, Worf and Bashir hadn't made it back just at the right time, the Bajoran sun would hav been destroyed. If Quark hadn't freed Rom who hadn't disabled the weapons so Sisko could make it to the wormhole and get the Prophets to remove the fleet, the Federation would have been completely overrun. If Worf hadn't killed Gowron, if Damar hadn't freed Worf then kept the Dominion distracted long enough for the Federation and Romulans to combat the Breen weapon.

I would agree that Garak was overall the largest contributor to the victory over the Dominion, or at least close between him and Sisko.
 
Plus there are likely many players within Starfleet, and other allied powers who helped them win the war, things Bashir and those augments couldn't have thought of, as there would be a million of shit going on they wouldn't be aware of.
 
I would agree that Garak was overall the largest contributor to the victory over the Dominion, or at least close between him and Sisko.
Nope. Sloan is the one most responsible for beating the Dominion. Or at least Section 31. But the whole infect-the-Link op seems to have been his baby, and that is what caused the Dominion to fold.

I am positive that, had Garak known of Sloan's/Sec 31's methods and aims, he'd have been on board all the way.
 
Nope. Sloan is the one most responsible for beating the Dominion. Or at least Section 31. But the whole infect-the-Link op seems to have been his baby, and that is what caused the Dominion to fold.

I am positive that, had Garak known of Sloan's/Sec 31's methods and aims, he'd have been on board all the way.

Section 31 created the virus, and that would have killed the Founders, at which point the Gem'Hadar would have gone on a murderous berserker rage to the last man. That doesn't really count as a victory. Or I guess, it is a Zapp Brannigan style victory. Maxing out the Gem'Hadar's pre-set kill limits.
 
The virus is important but it's unclear how pivotal it exactly was. Of course the delirium of the disease would've probably have driven the founders to making rash decisions but they where defeated before the virus actually killed them and it's not absolutely impossible they could've arrived at a cure. Afterall the founders should be the most prominent experts of their own biology.
 
Section 31 created the virus, and that would have killed the Founders, at which point the Gem'Hadar would have gone on a murderous berserker rage to the last man. That doesn't really count as a victory. Or I guess, it is a Zapp Brannigan style victory. Maxing out the Gem'Hadar's pre-set kill limits.
Why is that what would have happened? What DID happen is the Founders threw in the towel. Not any qualified form of victory. A victory.


The virus is important but it's unclear how pivotal it exactly was. Of course the delirium of the disease would've probably have driven the founders to making rash decisions but they where defeated before the virus actually killed them and it's not absolutely impossible they could've arrived at a cure. Afterall the founders should be the most prominent experts of their own biology.

Maybe it isn't impossible that they might have developed a cure, although the virus being artificial and they not knowing how it was made places them at a distinct research disadvantage. In any case, it is not what happened. The Founders ceased hostilities in exchange for the cure. Section 31--Sloan (or rather scientists under his/Sec 31's aegis)--created a giant bargaining chip and it was redeemed. I don't see how that's unclear. The Dominion agreed to back off in exchange for the cure.
 
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Not just in exchange for the cure. Odo also had to agree to return to the Link, as was prefigured during the Occupation Arc.
 
Why is that what would have happened? What DID happen is the Founders threw in the towel. Not any qualified form of victory. A victory.




Maybe it isn't impossible that they might have developed a cure, although the virus being artificial and they not knowing how it was made places them at a distinct research disadvantage. In any case, it is not what happened. The Founders ceased hostilities in exchange for the cure. Section 31--Sloan (or rather scientists under his/Sec 31's aegis)--created a giant bargaining chip and it was redeemed. I don't see how that's unclear. The Dominion agreed to back off in exchange for the cure.
The Dominion has already been defeated though i.e there was zero chance they where going to take the AQ. The founder capitulating simply decided different degrees of carnage, the war's outcome had been decided by then. It looked odds on the AQ would fall before Garak's intervention secured Romulan support however.
 
It's probably fair to say that Garak had a large role in turning fortunes around as the start of Romulan involvement in the war was a key event.

There were other players though, the first huge one being the Prophets. They made the large Dominion fleet disappear, which allowed the Federation to retake DS9, and have more of a presence again in the Bajoran sector.

Sloan's hand in creating the Founder illness was a huge event that ended up letting Odo have a active hand in ending the war by re-joining the Great Link and curing his people.

Damar's resistance was another key element, helping to attack from within to weaken the Dominion at a key time.

Gowron was destabilizing the Klingon front when he was sending constant attacks, so Worf killing him was another big one.

I'm sure there are many others that had a role in some way throughout the war as well.
 
Not just in exchange for the cure. Odo also had to agree to return to the Link, as was prefigured during the Occupation Arc.
As I recall, Odo carried the cure, which is why he had to go back, so all he was was the vector for introduction of the cure into the Link. Also, if the Dominion is as powerful and resilient as some here believe, then I very much doubt that it would have given up in perpetuity just because it couldn't get ships through the wormhole. I can see the Founders doing anything to get at the AQ, even taking the long way. Or if they are such advanced scientists, finding another wormhole into the AQ. Bound to be some. Or waiting patiently until they DO find a wormhole (and I can imagine the Dominion bending every resource to find one) and attacking then. This way, it is over, done. At least on paper, if you believe the Founders' word can be trusted.

But you are right: militarily, at the time of the agreement to cease hostilities, the Dominion was already on the run.
 
I believe the agreement regarding Odo stipulated that he would stay with the Link for the time-being, not simply provide the cure. Either that, or he chose to stay with the Link even after curing them without having any strings, but I got the impression that he agreed to do so during his link with the female changeling.

As she said during the Occupation Arc, having Odo return to the Link meant more to the Founders than the AQ itself.
 
Maybe I didn't give the scene due attention but I got the impression that Odo simply persuaded her to have a last minute change of heart due to the futility of pressing on with her last stand. As in the cure didn't seal the deal, it was just given in the spirit of kindness.
 
Was Garak decisive in saving the war for the Federation? No. The alliance with the Breen and the Second Battle of Chintoka wiped out all the accomplishments since the retaking of DS9, and even then, the Romulans did not make a huge dent in the Dominion war effort--it was still described as a hard slog.

How did Odo get the Female Changeling to agree to the Dominion's surrender? I know some won't like this answer, but it was through the intimate and innate qualities of linking, Odo's maturation, and his willingness to help the Founders.
 
One of many contributors... Sisko gets a nod for many things, including convincing the Founders to "disappear" an entire Dominion fleet, Rom for creating the self-replicating cloaked mines that guarded the wormhole, Section 31 for creating the wasting virus, Odo for convincing the Founder to surrender, etc.
 
I'm sure there are many others that had a role in some way throughout the war as well.
The problem is that there was no one turning point nor one easy solutions. Behr and the writing staff consistently undermined anything that looked like a magic bullet or a final blow, making sure that in the end, the war would only be won by effort and cooperation.
 
You can probably add the unnamed Klingon engineer who did something to their engine before the Breen attacked the fleet with their super weapon.

It destroyed all the ships except that particular ship.

And Kira for stealing the weapon so the Fed scientists could study it.
 
Some interesting theories, but they overlook the lynchpin that won the war by securing the Alpha Quadrant from the first Dominion invasion:

Morn.

It was Morn who, upon visiting his mother, carried a coded message alerting Starfleet of the timetable for Cardassia disarming the minefield. This mobilized the fleet in time to retake DS9, permitting the Defiant to enter the wormhole just as the Dominion fleet traversed it to essentially defeat the AQ at that decisive moment of no return.

It was Morn, people.
 
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