Out of the blue as in the writers gave up on the show completely at that point because of the writers strike?
Writers, go back and change the ending!
Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?
- Thread starter Lorthos
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Writers, go back and change the ending!
Question: "Why did Chakotay choose to be with Seven instead of Janeway?"
Answer: He was controlled by evil entities called "The evil producers" who took control over him and made him do it, just like when kes was controlled by Tieran in "Warlord" and Tuvok was controlled by the Komar in "Cathexis".
Answer: He was controlled by evil entities called "The evil producers" who took control over him and made him do it, just like when kes was controlled by Tieran in "Warlord" and Tuvok was controlled by the Komar in "Cathexis".
If I remember well what I have read about Endgame (including in Mulgrew's interviews), everyone knew how much Janeway/Chakotay's shippers wanted - and expected - a happy end for this couple but, Braga and Mulgrew thought that in view of strong Janeway's temperament and complexities, she could free herself from the presence of a man with her, to keep doing what she loved. And I thought that both were right to do that.
I mean, Chakotay wouldn't have been happy. Content for sure to finally have what he wanted for awhile but not happy because, well, he would never have been first in Janeway's life (Starfleet would always have passed first and foremost) and In spite of all his qualities, he would never accepted this situation, not on the long term in any case, what would have been quite normal.
-> in fact, I think that she did rather a favor to Chakotay by allowing him to find the happiness somewhere else with somebody who wouldn't make him be in the second position.
As for the choice of Seven for Chakotay, it was only because she was free and love was supposed to be the next step to reconquer totally her humanity..., even if I remain convinced that it was too early and that she wasn't ready to face some strong emotions like love, yet.
In fact, I would rather have bet on Chakotay/Marla Gilmore from the Equinox, who had much more chemistry in their scenes together in 2 episodes than Chakotay/Seven scenes in 4 episodes., IMHO.
And to all those who would set against me the rule of non-fraternization, knowing that Marla was a former lieutenant who became Enseign further to the episode with Equinox, I don't think that Chakotay was very looking on this matter. I mean, look at Seven, who though being a civilian aboard, served as an officer and obeyed as much to his orders as Janeway's during 4 years and this situation didn't prevent him from answering her advances, no more than he refrained of seducing Janeway, who was his direct superior). So....
Because it makes no sense and causes "controversy" (gets attention) among the fanbase.
That too ... though I don't think that CBS & producers or actors* wanted or expected the backlash they got from J/C's shippers - who have hoped episode after episode and season after season, during 7 years, the making of this couple and at the very end, they got a - came out of nowhere - Chakotay/Seven! - after the airing of Endgame. Backlash which still conitnues, whatever the forums dedicated to ST:Voyager, even after 15 years.*I mean, ask to Mulgrew or Beltran who are ceaselessly questionned in conventions, about reasons why the key couple of the series didn't finish together at the end or all books and fanfictions based on ST: Voyager which were written where a shamy Chakotay finally dropped Seven and ran to reconquer a heartbroken Janeway, etc...
Hey, it's even became tiring to find some fanfictions where there isn't Janeway/Chakotay!
Well, those in charge of PocketBooks and the author of the "Relaunch books" knew that it was the only way to make people buy the books.So funny how in the books C/7 is dropped like a hot potato.
No doubt that the J/C-ers were and still is the largest Voyager fanbase. To further alienate them would be suicide from a business point of view.
The backlash would probably be even worse if TIIC miraculously managed to top that clusterfuck with Enterprise's finale. C/7 was....unexpected, but it was one aspect of an overall servicable, if not otherwise memorable sendoff. TATV was a top to bottom disaster.
Geez, that's tactless. Kinda reminds me of the live chat they had for Scott Bakula mid way into Season 4 and one poster here wasted a once in a lifetime opportunity to ask about the possibility of Archer/T'Police being a thing. Mind you, the writing on the wall was less sharpie on a bathroom stall and more neon glow-in-the-dark neon yellow painted on the side of Ikea as to which pairing the show was going with at this point, as the mental bond episode aired later than evening.*I mean, ask to Mulgrew or Beltran who are ceaselessly questionned in conventions, about reasons why the key couple of the series didn't finish together at the end or all books and fanfictions based on ST: Voyager which were written where a shamy Chakotay finally dropped Seven and ran to reconquer a heartbroken Janeway, etc...
Hey, it's even became tiring to find some fanfictions where there isn't Janeway/Chakotay!
I was like...."are you shitting me?" And I actually shipped A/T'P back then.
In that case, both producers, actors and all involved with the show must have been living in a cave without any contact with the rest of the world. Anyone of them could just have visited any of the numerous Voyager forums or fanpages to see what a very large group of fans wanted.
If they had been smart, they could at least have chosen to let the relationship hang in the air, finishing the series with a possibility for the fans to imagine that relationship or leave it to the "relaunch books" author to go along with it. But no, they just had to insult a large fan group with that Chakotay/Seven thing out of nowhere.
I think it's the same thing here as with "the Kes case" when people were sending in requests for having the character back. They deliberately showed "the finger" to both the Kes fans and the J/C-ers, like "don't tell us what to do. We are in charge and your only mission is to sit quite and say yes to what your masters decide, you ungrateful nobodys"
Hey, it's even became tiring to find some fanfictions where there isn't Janeway/Chakotay!
You should try my Kes stories. Even if J/C is hinted, there's no obvious focus on it!
The backlash would probably be even worse if TIIC miraculously managed to top that clusterfuck with Enterprise's finale. C/7 was....unexpected, but it was one aspect of an overall servicable, if not otherwise memorable sendoff. TATV was a top to bottom disaster.Sorry to ask but what or who is TIIC and TATV?
Geez, that's tactless. Kinda reminds me of the live chat they had for Scott Bakula mid way into Season 4 and one poster here wasted a once in a lifetime opportunity to ask about the possibility of Archer/T'Police being a thing. Mind you, the writing on the wall was less sharpie on a bathroom stall and more neon glow-in-the-dark neon yellow painted on the side of Ikea as to which pairing the show was going with at this point, as the mental bond episode aired later than evening.Sorry if I looked like tactless to you but believe me, when you look for fanfictions about Voyager to make a break and found out that 85 to 90% are about J/C, pairing you don't ship for and they are essentially rated mature or explicit, it can be frustrating -> I eventually read one on Janeway and Seven which began by a relation mother/daughter to end by a love relation.
Even if I don't specially share the purpose, I admit that the story was interesting, well written and very cute. I spent a great time and it was quite unexpected!
Quite true.
I can understand that people in charge of a show don't like that fans question their creative spirit but they shoudn't rebel if the broadcast refuse to renew the series for a new season or if they are forced to make some shifts.
You should try my Kes stories. Even if J/C is hinted, there's no obvious focus on it!
Can you give me the titles and links, please?
I liked Kes and regretted her firing. I think that Seven and Kes would have been able to work together.
TIIC=the idiots in charge
TATV=the title of Enterprise's finale, These Are the Voyages, often called "This Ain't the Valentine" in reference to a Berman quote, or simply "The Abomination," which I found out one Trip fan board autocorrects for TATV upon posting
TATV=the title of Enterprise's finale, These Are the Voyages, often called "This Ain't the Valentine" in reference to a Berman quote, or simply "The Abomination," which I found out one Trip fan board autocorrects for TATV upon posting
TIIC=the idiots in charge
TATV=the title of Enterprise's finale, These Are the Voyages, often called "This Ain't the Valentine" in reference to a Berman quote, or simply "The Abomination," which I found out one Trip fan board autocorrects for TATV upon posting
OK. Thanks for the reply!
Quite true.
I can understand that people in charge of a show don't like that fans question their creative spirit but they shoudn't rebel if the broadcast refuse to renew the series for a new season or if they are forced to make some shifts.
Can you give me the titles and links, please?
They can be found on the Kes Website at:
http://www.lynx677.tk/
under the link: Kes Stories
Chakotay was never particular about his women, so I never did understand what all of the fuss was about, when he got with Seven of Nine - even if it did arrive unexpectedly ... and completely out of the blue. Jeri dethroned Kate as the star of VOYAGER and so, it was only natural that her character to get with the only available, principal Male character on the show who was at her level of importance, to the show. Chakotay had to make-do with what was at hand on Voyager, of course. I don't know what else the fans thought was going to happen. Captain Janeway rejected him ... soundly! 7, on the other hand, offered more interesting possibilities, worth pursuing ... there's no real reason for Chakotay to be lonely, after all. Which compensates, some, for his persistent crush on The Good Captain.
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^
That's all true, but they surely could have done a better job of setting that up. It was just as lazy when TNG did it with Worf/Troi as well and when they decided to chicken out on the seven year Picard/Crusher cocktease.
And also, the Harry Potter series. He has virtually no interactions with Ginny for five books and barely notices her as anything but his best mate's sister and fellow Quidditch player, but in Book Six, it's suddenly all about the chest monsters? What exactly attracted him to het other than not being Cho Chang? And given Rowling can put details into couples that barely were seen together ever, Remus and Tonks, I don't buy the "it's just a kid's book" argument. But I digress.
The point is that could've done a lot more showing than telling with the two of them, if they were serious and made Chakotay fans a bit happier that he found someone to love him, even if it wasn't Janeway.
That's all true, but they surely could have done a better job of setting that up. It was just as lazy when TNG did it with Worf/Troi as well and when they decided to chicken out on the seven year Picard/Crusher cocktease.
And also, the Harry Potter series. He has virtually no interactions with Ginny for five books and barely notices her as anything but his best mate's sister and fellow Quidditch player, but in Book Six, it's suddenly all about the chest monsters? What exactly attracted him to het other than not being Cho Chang? And given Rowling can put details into couples that barely were seen together ever, Remus and Tonks, I don't buy the "it's just a kid's book" argument. But I digress.
The point is that could've done a lot more showing than telling with the two of them, if they were serious and made Chakotay fans a bit happier that he found someone to love him, even if it wasn't Janeway.
I must state here that if "Jeri dethroned Kate as the star of Voyager", it was all about the writers and producers.
They demoted all the other characters in order to make Seven the only shining star of the series, thus creating what tension which may have been behind the scene.
And I still think that the Seven-Chakotay romance also was a set-up to insult the largest group of Voyager fans, showing them a finger and saying: "Here you have for trying to tell us what to do!"
In retrospect, it would have been better if Voyager had ended in season 3 and then they could have started a new series called Star Trek: Seven Of Nine.
Now wait, that was exactly what happened!
Haha! Worf/Troi was really awkward! But, at least, we understand it, in real world terms, as being there for 2 actor friends who didn't get many scenes together to have that opportunity. As I understand it - and I am NO historian of things STAR TREK, but I pick things up on the often accurate, always reliable Internet - Jeri joked with Braga about a "what if" scenario involving Seven and Chakotay and so Braga brought it to the screen. It could've been set up so much better, but the attitude has often been, with STAR TREK, "... why make extra work for yourself?" It's easy to judge that attitude and I certainly do! But time pressures are a real constant. "You've got 10 minutes to capture Lightning in a Bottle!" I mean ... WTF?
At the same time ... this is relationship stuff that Hollywood has been handling since the Silent Movie Era. So, there's really no excuse for piss-poor writing, in that area. These shitty-assed STAR TREK writers can come up with Subspace this and that's til the cows come home, but they're clueless on how to write for these couples we're presented with. They might be doing us a favour by not giving us what we really want, like seeing Kathryn in Chakotay's arms, finally. They'd just screw it up - and they know that! Which is why I'm very reluctant to accuse them of giving Trekkies The Finger. It's more about knowing their limits, as it were. Fearing their ratings going South ... like a duck in Winter!
At the same time ... this is relationship stuff that Hollywood has been handling since the Silent Movie Era. So, there's really no excuse for piss-poor writing, in that area. These shitty-assed STAR TREK writers can come up with Subspace this and that's til the cows come home, but they're clueless on how to write for these couples we're presented with. They might be doing us a favour by not giving us what we really want, like seeing Kathryn in Chakotay's arms, finally. They'd just screw it up - and they know that! Which is why I'm very reluctant to accuse them of giving Trekkies The Finger. It's more about knowing their limits, as it were. Fearing their ratings going South ... like a duck in Winter!
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