BREAKING: Official Fan Film Guidelines Issued

[Stevil2001]

And can this really extend to behind-the-scenes production prople like Doug Drexler?

I don't see how it could be imagined it doesn't:
The fan production must be a real “fan” production, i.e., creators, actors and all other participants must be amateurs, cannot be compensated for their services, and cannot be currently or previously employed on any Star Trek series, films, production of DVDs or with any of CBS or Paramount Pictures’ licensees.

If they only wanted to be about actors, they could have just written "actors" instead of "creators, actors and all other participants."

 

[CorporalCaptain]

You want to make a webfilm with tv/movie-grade acting

Well, guess what?

If you want to do that with Star Trek, you have three choices.

1) Work within the guidelines as outlined by CBS/Paramount.

2) Negotiate a license so that your film can be an official product (good luck with that and I hope you won the lottery).

3) Risk getting sued.

These three choices aren't mutually exclusive.

As basically observed already in the thread, the effect of the guidelines, your first option, is to keep your production from approaching "tv/movie-grade," at least as far as Star Trek itself is concerned. It's a fan-film. It's amateur. It's not supposed to look as good as the official productions. The rights holders have the right to decide this.

Option #4 would be to create your own damn property, something also already stated in-thread. Then you can do whatever you can afford. Make it as "tv/movie-grade" as you like!

 

[Warped9]

I'm just getting to this thread and all I have to say is that many of these restrictions are beyond unreasonable -- especially the time limits and forbidding serialization.

Fan productions of various types have been a part of Star Trek almost since the beginning.

I can remember spending hours reading Fanfic on old Gopher sites. The first website I ever built was inspired by Star Trek and contained an array of midi files, images, stories, and more. Maybe they should have sued me.

I remember creating and playing Star Trek games, and organizing sim groups, and more. (20 years later, I'm still in touch with some of my "shipmates" from that era.

And had the technology been available and affordable in the 90s, you could bet your bottom that a lot of that would have involved video production as well.

This is just a stab in the back from the studios. I'm tempted to call for a boycott of all official Star Trek productions based on this betrayal of the fans. Fans have kept Star Trek alive for 50 years. This is not how you celebrate that love.

These are not restrictions. They are not rules or laws or prohibitions or bans. They are guidelines.

A lot of people are not grasping the difference. I suspect a lot of people didn't really listen to what JVC was saying about these guidelines. I bet many folks missed the part where CBS won't be policing fan productions strictly with a stopwatch. They will be watching for excessive behaviour.

I think fan productions will still have quite a bit of flexibility as long as they don't push too far in certain areas.

- Don't use people associated with official Trek past or present.
- Don't merchandise.
- Don't overly promote yourself.
- Keep crowdfunding targets modest.
- Stay away from 40 minute plus productions.
- Don't use "Star Trek" in your title but somewhere clarify that it is a Star Trek fan production and Star Trek is owned by CBS/P.

Thats what this boils down to essentially.

The sky is not falling. We just now have a better idea of what CBS/P will tolerate.

 

[Shikarnov]

Working on a fan film itself has no legal basis. It's "tolerated" use. In other words, you're technically breaking the law.

I'm not so sure about that. I'm not an attorney, but my profession -- marketing communication -- deals a good bit with copyrights and trademarks. Paramount and CBS have been very "tolerant" (as you say) over the past half century. The lack of vigorous defense over that time substantially weakens their legal position and, if the fan films were inclined to fight, loosens their hold over the property.

 

[Jedman67]

Well, guess what?

If you want to do that with Star Trek, you have three choices.

1) Work within the guidelines as outlined by CBS/Paramount.

2) Negotiate a license so that your film can be an official product (good luck with that and I hope you won the lottery).

3) Risk getting sued.

As I said, the Guidelines are not about approaching 'tv-movie' quality; it's about preventing brand confusion (someone sees "Intrepid" or "Renegades" and thinks it's the real McCoy - pun intended) and preventing people from making money off the Star Trek IP - the $50,000 per 15 minutes of film crowdfunding limit. There is nothing in the rules about hiring professional actors; just don't use star trek alumni.

 

[Jedman67]

I'm not so sure about that. I'm not an attorney, but my profession -- marketing communication -- deals a good bit with copyrights and trademarks. Paramount and CBS have been very "tolerant" (as you say) over the past half century. The lack of vigorous defense over that time substantially weakens their legal position and, if the fan films were inclined to fight, loosens their hold over the property.

Incorrect. Several attorneys have commented on that regard; TL;DR is that copyright is forever until it expires, or is actively transferred over to another party - no need to defend it constantly.
CBS has had discussions with fan films in the past, ranging from "don't do that" to "cool, nice flick!" to "this is your last warning before we sue your pants off". I've heard that CBS has sued fan productions prior to Axanar.
Trademarks need to be defended however.

 

[Sgt_G]

The lack of vigorous defense over that time substantially weakens their legal position and, if the fan films were inclined to fight, loosens their hold over the property.

Nope. If we were talking trademarks, you would be correct. But this argument about "undefended copyrights" has been tried more than once and lost every time.

 

[Warped9]

Fan productions have been making features costing $50,000 for 50-60 minutes of screen time. Fifty grand for 15-30 minutes is a good deal of coin.

 

[CJCade]

As I said, the Guidelines are not about approaching 'tv-movie' quality; it's about preventing brand confusion (someone sees "Intrepid" or "Renegades" and thinks it's the real McCoy - pun intended) and preventing people from making money off the Star Trek IP - the $50,000 per 15 minutes of film crowdfunding limit. There is nothing in the rules about hiring professional actors; just don't use star trek alumni.

The fan production must be a real “fan” production, i.e., creators, actors and all other participants must be amateurs, cannot be compensated for their services, and cannot be currently or previously employed on any Star Trek series, films, production of DVDs or with any of CBS or Paramount Pictures’ licensees.

I do believe the use of "amateurs" clearly means no "professional" actors, unless any actor that hasn't acted on Star Trek is considered an amateur (I'd be open to that being the case ).

 

[Warped9]

If Lou Ferrigno or some other such non Trek sci-fi or genre alumni is willing to be part of a fan production I seriously doubt CBS/P will care.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

There is nothing in the rules about hiring professional actors; just don't use star trek alumni.

It says that participants cannot be compensated for their services. It does indeed say that hiring is not allowed, full stop.

The fan production must be a real “fan” production, i.e., creators, actors and all other participants must be amateurs, cannot be compensated for their services, and cannot be currently or previously employed on any Star Trek series, films, production of DVDs or with any of CBS or Paramount Pictures’ licensees.

If professional actors do work on a fan-film, then, not to run afoul of the guidelines, they cannot be paid for their appearance.

It also says that all participants must be amateurs. Let's not pretend that the spirit of the guidelines is to allow the production of fan-films by fans who have no prior professional experience working in show business while at the same time discouraging the participation of people who do make their living working in show business, whether the letter of the guidelines explicitly excludes them or not. The guidelines are clearly an attempt to put the fan back in fan film and to limit them to that caliber.

 

[CJCade]

I agree, they may not, Warped9. But it is in there so if they did want to take action, they have it to fall back on.

 

[Jedman67]

You're right, I mis-remembered.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I'm not up to date on union rules, my belief is that actors can accept "state" minimum wage, rather than "union" minimum wage which is higher, for 'new media'.
Let's use the term "industry standard-quality" to avoid mixing up the use of "professional" to indicate a studio or indie film.
You want to make a webfilm with tv/movie-grade acting, it's inevitable that you hire professional (meaning union) actors. You could probably get away with using acting students for part of the job, both to keep costs down and keep up the "its a hobby not a job" mentality. There is no rule in the guidelines prohibiting professional actors or professional CGI etc.



JVC has stated that the rules apply to any visual media, including animated or cartoon fanfilms. So STA would fall under the same guidelines. I'm guessing there is some sort of wiggle room depending on how it's funded and what type of actors are being used.

If you want to hire actors and have a professional quality film, then is that a hobby? If you are making a professional quality film, is that still a fanfilm?

Should you be using someone else's IP?

If you are doing a short to show off your ability as a filmmaker to have a career, you would be better off making progress original content.

 

[Jedman67]

I have no interest in any of the above aside from academics. Your point is valid, however; look at those particular fan films that have attempted to capture the look and feel of a professional production in the past: New Voyages/Phase II, Renegades, and Continues (that i'm aware of) were attempting to create a story from the star trek they loved - specifically NV and STC which have built amazingly reconstructed sets, and I think it was Potempkin? Excelsior? Starbase Studios who also built fantastic TOS sets. STC and NV have hired professionals, and they have retained professionals who appeared for free. I don't believe any of those that I mentioned can even come close to anything but a hobby, albeit an expensive one.

So yes, if Vic or James wanted to show off their movie making skills, banking on the fanfilm community to do so would be unwise. That's not what they're doing, based on what i've seen.

Note: I have not participated in any fanfilms, or have any interest in the entertainment industry. I just enjoy a healthy discussion.

 

[mos6507]

If Lou Ferrigno or some other such non Trek sci-fi or genre alumni is willing to be part of a fan production I seriously doubt CBS/P will care.

They will care if they're getting paid. Nobody's supposed to make money on this whether they've worked on Trek productions or not.

 

[Warped9]

They will care if they're getting paid. Nobody's supposed to make money on this whether they've worked on Trek productions or not.

Who said anything about getting paid?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Who said anything about getting paid?

You might not have been saying it, but since you asked in general, there have been people in this thread as recently as today discussing "hiring professional actors."

 

[Warped9]

You might not have been saying it, but since you asked in general, there have been people in this thread as recently as today discussing "hiring professional actors."

One could take that literally or see it less so.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I have no interest in any of the above aside from academics. Your point is valid, however; look at those particular fan films that have attempted to capture the look and feel of a professional production in the past: New Voyages/Phase II, Renegades, and Continues (that i'm aware of) were attempting to create a story from the star trek they loved - specifically NV and STC which have built amazingly reconstructed sets, and I think it was Potempkin? Excelsior? Starbase Studios who also built fantastic TOS sets. STC and NV have hired professionals, and they have retained professionals who appeared for free. I don't believe any of those that I mentioned can even come close to anything but a hobby, albeit an expensive one.

So yes, if Vic or James wanted to show off their movie making skills, banking on the fanfilm community to do so would be unwise. That's not what they're doing, based on what i've seen.

Note: I have not participated in any fanfilms, or have any interest in the entertainment industry. I just enjoy a healthy discussion.

Most fanfilms weren't money making ventures. It was their passion and their hobby. And I don't think any of them were compensating their regular actors, I could be wrong. Guests were compensated in someway, I'm sure.