BREAKING: Official Fan Film Guidelines Issued
- Thread starter Danlav05
- Start date
You seem to misunderstand both IP and what these fan film guidelines are. CBS/Paramount has and always had the legal right to sue those who they believe are infringing their copyrights, whether the individuals in question have worked on Star Trek or not. These guidelines are simply an announcement to the world at large --aimed at the fan film community-- stating their intention not to sue the makers of certain kinds of fan films at this time. There is no work being taken away here in violation of core human rights. That's ridiculous.
The legal basis for a lawsuit is copyright infringement. And that exists on a fab film, regardless of the guidelines. CBS is saying they will look the other way if one follows the guidelines.
Also: as per one of the guidelines, no one should be employed working on a fanfilm, i.e., being paid. That too is a no no.
Edited to add: CBS isn't saying these people CANT work on a fanfilm. They are saying if they do, there's a greater chance CBS legal will take the fanfilm to court to enforce their copyright.
Not only that, but the characters do not belong to the actors in the copyright sense.
That's true, but, unless I'm mistaken, the guidelines don't qualify the condition regarding actors to say that they just mustn't play the same character (although that's what, e.g., Takei and Koenig did on NV/P2). I believe that it applies no matter what character they might play in the fan film. No actors from the shows, period, no matter who they play.
Fair enough. I see it as much a protection of the original copyright holders as allowing fan film creators to return to amateur style film making.
I have no problem with the other guidelines, but trying to exclude former Trek employees, who have no running contract with CBS/Paramount anymore, is an attack on the personal rights of such individuals. And implying, you get into a lawsuit if you use this right to work on whatever you want, is a kind of blackmailing.
Perhaps, but I would still err on the side of caution. In my book at least main casts are off limits. And given what I have enjoyed seeing and the success certain productions have had including Trek alumni isn't a necessity. They also aren't necessary to generate buzz when crowdfunding drives are going to be more modest.
Besides there are a lot of other non Trek alumni out there who might enjoy particpating in a fan production.
Whether or not a Trek alum works on a fan film or not isn't up to the alum. I think this is a prohibition to the Producers against hiring such employees.
"I am George Takei, and CBS can't restrain my work here on this fan film!"
"Well, I'm the Producer of this fan film-and I'm not hiring you for the role. It's my call if you work on this project, not yours."
It's a prohibition on the Producers who are doing the hiring; not a prohibition on the Trek alum actors. The actors are unrestrained and can still work wherever the can get hired.
Yeah, no.
CBS isn't excluding anybody from anything.
CBS has said to fanfilm producers "If you do A, B, C, etc., we promise not to object or sue you". In this case "C" is "refrain from using former Trek employees".
You are completely free to use former Trek employees. However, if you do so, you are no longer within the safe harbor CBS has set out and so are at risk of being sued. Just like you were before the guidelines were issued.
I would like to reiterate that if CBS has any objections their first move would be a phone call advising you of what concerns them along with advice to not go forward with your current plan of action. If you persist than a C&D order is forthcoming. Keep pushing it and you could find yourself needing a lawyer.
The purpose of CBS's issued guidelines is essentially to prevent competition and brand confusion. One production has repeatedly claimed that they are the "true" star trek. Another has created a feature length film that looks and feels like it could have been a real movie (from what I've heard). Three popular studios have built authentic replica's of TOS sets. All of these have the potential to cause confusion for the casual viewer searching for "star trek" on youtube.
Note: I first stumbled across "Intrepid" a couple of years ago. The website looked so good I thought at first it was a real show, and emailed them to inquire. (While I love what they do, the accents were really hard for me to understand back then!)
Note: I first stumbled across "Intrepid" a couple of years ago. The website looked so good I thought at first it was a real show, and emailed them to inquire. (While I love what they do, the accents were really hard for me to understand back then!)
But, it's not WORK. Work implies payment. There shouldn't be ANY payment to ANYone for participating in a fan film. So, there isn't an issue of Labor laws coming in to play.
But, let me ask you: should CBS and Paramount be free to craft guidelines as they see fit, as they own the IP? Should not the owners of the property be able to say how others use it (for FREE)?
Let's say I rent a small studio to make my own fanfilm. Why should i pay the landlord anything? I'ts FAN-FILM!! Why should I pay the electricity? etc.
Many people who work on these projects do so as a hobby so they're happy to volunteer their time. Union actors are required by their unions to receive payment, although they are able to accept local minimum wage for "new media".
Rent and electricity are production expenses, like building a set.
As far as using SAG actors, 1. They don't have to be paid local minion wage, at least not in LA, you can do a deferred payment. 2. Maybe you shouldn't be using professional actors. It's a fanfilm, not a professional endeavor.
I'm just getting to this thread and all I have to say is that many of these restrictions are beyond unreasonable -- especially the time limits and forbidding serialization.
Fan productions of various types have been a part of Star Trek almost since the beginning.
I can remember spending hours reading Fanfic on old Gopher sites. The first website I ever built was inspired by Star Trek and contained an array of midi files, images, stories, and more. Maybe they should have sued me.
I remember creating and playing Star Trek games, and organizing sim groups, and more. (20 years later, I'm still in touch with some of my "shipmates" from that era.
And had the technology been available and affordable in the 90s, you could bet your bottom that a lot of that would have involved video production as well.
This is just a stab in the back from the studios. I'm tempted to call for a boycott of all official Star Trek productions based on this betrayal of the fans. Fans have kept Star Trek alive for 50 years. This is not how you celebrate that love.
Fan productions of various types have been a part of Star Trek almost since the beginning.
I can remember spending hours reading Fanfic on old Gopher sites. The first website I ever built was inspired by Star Trek and contained an array of midi files, images, stories, and more. Maybe they should have sued me.
I remember creating and playing Star Trek games, and organizing sim groups, and more. (20 years later, I'm still in touch with some of my "shipmates" from that era.
And had the technology been available and affordable in the 90s, you could bet your bottom that a lot of that would have involved video production as well.
This is just a stab in the back from the studios. I'm tempted to call for a boycott of all official Star Trek productions based on this betrayal of the fans. Fans have kept Star Trek alive for 50 years. This is not how you celebrate that love.
I can speak from personal experience that CBS is actually being very very giving. Other media companies, (20th Century Fox, 3D Realms/Apogee Software, id Software, Nintendo, others.) Are not nearly as giving or understanding. They will/would shut your stuff down without hesitation.
Ask the team who were developing Alien Quake back in 1996 how they feel about 20th Century Fox.
The fact that CBS didn't carpet bomb everything. Get rid of all the videos on YouTube, and say "No, you can't do anything." Demonstrates that they do care on some level.
Now personally, I wager these guidelines are probably, at least to a certain extent, a little flexible. You could probably get away with, for example, running a story longer than the suggested run time, as long as you kept to most of the rest of the stuff on the list.
I wonder if this has impact on projects akin to Star Trek Aurora? Obviously, most of this is focused on life-action production. It's nice to know that audio dramas and text-based fan fiction are more or less excluded from these kind of guidelines save the copyright information.
Ask the team who were developing Alien Quake back in 1996 how they feel about 20th Century Fox.
The fact that CBS didn't carpet bomb everything. Get rid of all the videos on YouTube, and say "No, you can't do anything." Demonstrates that they do care on some level.
Now personally, I wager these guidelines are probably, at least to a certain extent, a little flexible. You could probably get away with, for example, running a story longer than the suggested run time, as long as you kept to most of the rest of the stuff on the list.
I wonder if this has impact on projects akin to Star Trek Aurora? Obviously, most of this is focused on life-action production. It's nice to know that audio dramas and text-based fan fiction are more or less excluded from these kind of guidelines save the copyright information.
Working on a fan film itself has no legal basis. It's "tolerated" use. In other words, you're technically breaking the law.
I'm not up to date on union rules, my belief is that actors can accept "state" minimum wage, rather than "union" minimum wage which is higher, for 'new media'.
Let's use the term "industry standard-quality" to avoid mixing up the use of "professional" to indicate a studio or indie film.
You want to make a webfilm with tv/movie-grade acting, it's inevitable that you hire professional (meaning union) actors. You could probably get away with using acting students for part of the job, both to keep costs down and keep up the "its a hobby not a job" mentality. There is no rule in the guidelines prohibiting professional actors or professional CGI etc.
SAG-AFTRA said:
JVC has stated that the rules apply to any visual media, including animated or cartoon fanfilms. So STA would fall under the same guidelines. I'm guessing there is some sort of wiggle room depending on how it's funded and what type of actors are being used.
