BREAKING: Official Fan Film Guidelines Issued

[Wbino]

Hey guys don't think I'm a Anaxar fan boy, I didn't donate and I like my Trek old school, TOS.
Im more upset over the loss of STC, P2 than anything.
I just amazes me that instead of being on the side of all fan films in general, you all crap over Anaxar than fighting the 'man'. Whether Anaxar ever came into being or not, it's the new CBS series which didn't want anything in its way....
I hope STP2 goes out with JC in the captain chair one last time, doing KIRK as Elvis and full on parody with plenty of screw CBS, JJ jokes (with laugh track) sprinkled throughout its hour long final goodbye.
As I understand it parodies are untouchable....and they could call it ST PHU.

 

[Wbino]

So. Your issue is that fan films are being forced to be fan films?

Yes ......with these restrictions.......
I also don't go to High School musicals.....

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

What kind of story can be told in fifteen minutes? None....

(you beat me to it Potemkin_Prod, but to me it bears repeating non the less)

-The Potemkin catalogue of stories told in 15 and under.

-Intrepid' "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" 11 minutes 10 seconds

-Aaron Jay's "Needs of the Many" 6 minutes 28 seconds

-The Red Shirt Diaries, each and every one of them in 5 or less minutes

And here's the thing; not all fan films are an expression of 'story'. We do see lots of this over, say, the past 10 years or so, sure. But fan film is not defined or limited to being a story.
Fan = well, a fan
Film = something filmed.
A fan making a film with some choice of expression about that which he or she is a fan of.

-For instance

-Star Trekkin

-Another for instance

Though if one's preference 'is' the story format the first four links in this posts shows exactly the ability to tell a story in 15 mins or under. Which story, in fact, can be extended to 30 mins and still remains faithful to that time limit factor addressed in the official guideline list.

And for that matter leads us into the long used 30 minute format TV used.... and still widely uses. Another member on TBBS mentioned The Twilight Zone. Six seasons I think. The first four seasons were the 30 minute brilliant story telling. The fifth (I think) season went to an hour.

Interestingly The Twilight Zone then returned to the 30 minute format.

I see much evidence just everywhere in film that film length, story length, imposes no limit for creativity -or- excellence.

Just look at film makers whose Specific Specialty and Choice are Short Films. Many many many are poignantly and deeply expressed stories. Many are light and amusing. Many many many are social commentary. And I believe this class of filming stories to be woefully underrepresented in our last decade of what we've come to accept as 'standard' in our filmed story lengths.

Our current fan film format is being wonderfully utilized to our and its great advantage. And perhaps through necessity now the Short Film format bears examination by our fan film producers as a model their expertise can wonderfully utilize too.

Remember Pixar's 2000 brilliant For The Birds?... 3 minutes 21 or so seconds.
It was delightful humor. It also depicted innocence & naivete. As well as a social statement on unkindness, exclusion, group dynamics toward the 'different'. In 3 minutes 21 or so seconds!
For The Birds won the following awards:
-2002: 74th Academy Awards—Best Short Animated Film
-2001: Vancouver Effects and Animation Festival—Animated Computer 3D Short
-2001: Anima Mundi Animation Festival—Best Film x2
-2001: Chicago International Children's Film Festival-Short Film or Video—Animation-Second Place
-2000: Annie Award—Outstanding Achievement in an Animated Short Subject
-2000: Sitges—Catalan International Film Festival—Best Animated Short Film

3 minutes 21 or so seconds!

History shows staying inside the Box because that's what we're used to, are more comfortable with, prefer... sometimes gets new parameters outside our control anyway. And time and again shows us that actually being forced outside the Box has sometimes given just what is useful to make new, sometimes unexpected, sometimes giant, leaps forward!!

Creativity and creative film expressions of fans is not limited. And most certainly not eliminated or made inaccessible by a 15 - 30 minutes structure.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

instead of being on the side of all fan films in general, you all crap over Anaxar than fighting the 'man'.

Don't fall for the hype bullshit, Axanar is on the side of nobody but Axanar. Alec Peters is a career opportunist and has taken several liberties during his debacle of a project to be the "voice of the fans". He's not.

Rage at the dragon that is CBS as you like, but don't think for one second Alec Peters cares about any Star Trek fan but himself.

 

[Warped9]

Im more upset over the loss of STC, P2 than anything.

Apparently James Cawley has already announced he's closing up shop so there goes NV/P2. But Vic Mignogna has stated he is talking to CBS to clarify how things stand regarding STC in it's current form. And so far he sounds hopeful.

We also know that CBS/P is not applying their new stance retroactively. They have stated that any works that are ready or near ready to be released can do so in their current form. That means that STC's Ep. 7, and whatever else other productions might have ready to release soon, can go ahead as planned. Seeing that STC's Ep. 8 is also in the works it's just possible that, too, will also be released as initially planned.

STC hasn't thrown in the towel yet and they are evaluating how and if they can go forward beyond release of Ep. 7 in September.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Hey guys don't think I'm a Anaxar fan boy, I didn't donate and I like my Trek old school, TOS.
Im more upset over the loss of STC, P2 than anything.
I just amazes me that instead of being on the side of all fan films in general, you all crap over Anaxar than fighting the 'man'.

Because the man is right in this circumstance. Axanar went to far. Peters repeatedly said he was making a professional Star Trek film. He paid him self. He used stolen goods to enrich himself, i.e., using Star Trek IP to build a business for himself.

A lot of us ARE on the side of fan films. But, a lot of us recognize that Axanar crossed a line and put it ALL in jeopardy. It amazes ME that you don't see that. Or maybe you don't agree. But, this is where we are.

Whether Anaxar ever came into being or not, it's the new CBS series which didn't want anything in its way....

Perhaps. But there is zero evidence of that. All we have is a law suit against a particular fan film that took some VERY different actions than all of the other fan films.

I hope STP2 goes out with JC in the captain chair one last time, doing KIRK as Elvis and full on parody with plenty of screw CBS, JJ jokes (with laugh track) sprinkled throughout its hour long final goodbye.
As I understand it parodies are untouchable....and they could call it ST PHU.

It's a very easy narrative: A David and Goliath story... The Man versus the Little Guy. But, it's not that story. Axanar crossed lines... you don't get to raise 1.3 million dollars for a fanfilm--and then use the money to build a for profit studio. You don't get to raise 1.3 million dollars for a fan film and then PAY YOURSELF. Star Trek isn't there for everyone to use as they want.

In fact, the "Man" has been VERY accommodating over the decades in regards to fan films. Up until a certain production crossed a line, the "Man" was ok with all sorts.

One kid screwed up and the rest are paying for it.

 

[Noname Given]

I just amazes me that instead of being on the side of all fan films in general, you all crap over Anaxar than fighting the 'man'.

Well, considering that UNTIL the lawsuit was filed, Alec Peters promoted 'AXANAR' as "the first independent Star Trek feature film.."; and in almost every interview and blog would denigrate EVERY OTHER EXISTING STAR TREK FAN PRODUCTION under the sun in some way. If you're really a fan of ST:NV/PII I'm surprised you'd be so ready to defend Alec Peters and AXANAR, given his attitude prior to CBS/Paramount dropping the hammer.

 

[GSchnitzer]

I honestly think that Into Darkness would have been a better movie (and certainly better received) if John Harrison had just been John Harrison....and Khan had still been a Popsicle.

Just a reminder: please don't detour into the JJTrek subject. Go to that forum if you want.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, considering that UNTIL the lawsuit was filed, Alec Peters promoted 'AXANAR' as "the first independent Star Trek feature film.."; and in almost every interview and blog would denigrate EVEY OTHER EXISTING STAR TREK FAN PRODUCTION under the sun in some way. If you're really a fan of ST:NV/PII I'm surprised you'd be so ready to defend Alec Peters and AXANAR, given his attitude prior to CBS/Paramount dropping the hammer.

This is a critical point. It isn't that everyone is bashing on Axanar apropos of nothing. Axanar was constructed in a very competitive way-being better than Abrams' Trek, being better than every other fan production.

So, CBS is supposed to what? They are the legitimate copyright holder. Star Trek doesn't belong to the fans and CBS doesn't owe us anything.

 

[Maurice]

Just because a lot of fan films take 5 minutes just to clear their throat doesn't mean it has to be done that way. Anyone who's seen the 2004 short A Can of Paint (based on A.E. Van Vogt even) knows you can do a compelling scifi story in less than a half hour.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Just because a lot of fan films take 5 minutes just to clear their throat doesn't mean it has to be done that way. Anyone who's seen the 2004 short A Can of Paint (based on A.E. Van Vogt even) knows you can do a compelling scifi story in less than a half hour.

There are so many examples of compelling movies that are under 15 minutes, I feel like the whole "you can't do it in 15" argument is silly.

And not just in Sci fi, but in all genre. How many short film awards are there? How many years have the oscars had the short film category?

 

[EnderAKH]

Or how about half hour dramedies, which are actually 22 minutes? So you get to do a 30 minute episode, and treat the break at 15 minutes as an act/commercial break.

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

^^^^ Sure!

A story can even be told without exposition once in a while. Which for many of us carries its own appeal now and then.

For instance;
Two ships in space, one known to the viewer, the crew known to the viewer. The other? Unknown.

Our crew trying to engage with the unknown ship sitting or approaching menacingly and silently.

No responses, tension mounts.

The silent ship's weapons are armed. Our shields are raised, our weapons armed!

The bulk of the episode is then filled with 10 minutes of an awesome cat and mouse cg space battle! With only momentary cuts showing our crew as they frantically maneuver to survive this.

battle battle battle

The unknown ship is mortally wounded. Or something like in Enterprise where it just goes away.

No answers learned. Only questions in our own and our crew's minds.

WHY? Where did they come from? Will they be back? What was this about? Were they pirates? Were they scouting for a species? 'Did they perceive us a threat? Will they be coming back? Are they just the tip of an.... armada?!!!

All left completely unanswered as we return to our crew in the process of beginning to repair the ship, attending to the hurt and diseased, ......having to just move forward.

Like in Masters & Commanders of the Far Side of the World up to the point where they figured out who that other ship was.

With the significant dialogue in the film being a total of approximately four minutes split between the opening and closing scenes of the film.

I would enjoy seeing a story something like that.

 

[seigezunt]

Some good points raised here, that lead me to think that these guidelines might actually result in BETTER fan films, being forced to write tighter, and do more with less.

After all, that's what TOS had to do.


ETA: oh, by the way, is there a thread that specifically discusses the craptastic boycott movement? I have some *feelings* about that to express.

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

'Portlandia' is another example of successful adaptation in using Short Films for story telling.

9 minutes 47 seconds
One More Episode of Battlestar Galactica

 

[dmac]

(you beat me to it Potemkin_Prod, but to me it bears repeating non the less)

-The Potemkin catalogue of stories told in 15 and under.

-Intrepid' "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" 11 minutes 10 seconds

-Aaron Jay's "Needs of the Many" 6 minutes 28 seconds

-The Red Shirt Diaries, each and every one of them in 5 or less minutes

And here's the thing; not all fan films are an expression of 'story'. We do see lots of this over, say, the past 10 years or so, sure. But fan film is not defined or limited to being a story.
Fan = well, a fan
Film = something filmed.
A fan making a film with some choice of expression about that which he or she is a fan of.

-For instance

-Star Trekkin

-Another for instance

Though if one's preference 'is' the story format the first four links in this posts shows exactly the ability to tell a story in 15 mins or under. Which story, in fact, can be extended to 30 mins and still remains faithful to that time limit factor addressed in the official guideline list.

And for that matter leads us into the long used 30 minute format TV used.... and still widely uses. Another member on TBBS mentioned The Twilight Zone. Six seasons I think. The first four seasons were the 30 minute brilliant story telling. The fifth (I think) season went to an hour.

Interestingly The Twilight Zone then returned to the 30 minute format.

I see much evidence just everywhere in film that film length, story length, imposes no limit for creativity -or- excellence.

Just look at film makers whose Specific Specialty and Choice are Short Films. Many many many are poignantly and deeply expressed stories. Many are light and amusing. Many many many are social commentary. And I believe this class of filming stories to be woefully underrepresented in our last decade of what we've come to accept as 'standard' in our filmed story lengths.

Our current fan film format is being wonderfully utilized to our and its great advantage. And perhaps through necessity now the Short Film format bears examination by our fan film producers as a model their expertise can wonderfully utilize too.

Remember Pixar's 2000 brilliant For The Birds?... 3 minutes 21 or so seconds.
It was delightful humor. It also depicted innocence & naivete. As well as a social statement on unkindness, exclusion, group dynamics toward the 'different'. In 3 minutes 21 or so seconds!
For The Birds won the following awards:
-2002: 74th Academy Awards—Best Short Animated Film
-2001: Vancouver Effects and Animation Festival—Animated Computer 3D Short
-2001: Anima Mundi Animation Festival—Best Film x2
-2001: Chicago International Children's Film Festival-Short Film or Video—Animation-Second Place
-2000: Annie Award—Outstanding Achievement in an Animated Short Subject
-2000: Sitges—Catalan International Film Festival—Best Animated Short Film

3 minutes 21 or so seconds!

History shows staying inside the Box because that's what we're used to, are more comfortable with, prefer... sometimes gets new parameters outside our control anyway. And time and again shows us that actually being forced outside the Box has sometimes given just what is useful to make new, sometimes unexpected, sometimes giant, leaps forward!!

Creativity and creative film expressions of fans is not limited. And most certainly not eliminated or made inaccessible by a 15 - 30 minutes structure.

The question I ask is can you invoke any emotion, does the viewer become vested enough in any of the characters to be stirred by a gallant victory or a twist of fate leading to defeat? Does a message about, post traumatic stress, bullying, a lonely entity or other become so nonexistent due to time restraints that the general viewer isn't left with anything to ponder after the ending?
People say some really popular under 30 minute stuff was once created, some of my early favorites were Sky King and Cannonball Express, sort of an early version of Route 66 except they hauled freight around Canada. Was it good or popular because back then the choice was limited? If it was good, was it the story, actors, settings or props?
Bonanza found success in the early 60's with their hour episodes and converted a lot of viewers into accepting the longer episode format. Did we become used to the deeper character development an hour long script afforded us?
You can tell short stories using Star Trek metaphors along with all the great tools built in and available but will you ever go where no Star Trek has gone before?
We honestly did a really wonderful story called Sanctuary, written by Homer Eversole, I'd love to someday see an hour long version of it.

 

[Maurice]

^^^^ Sure!

A story can even be told without exposition once in a while. Which for many of us carries its own appeal now and then.

For instance;
Two ships in space, one known to the viewer, the crew known to the viewer. The other? Unknown.

Our crew trying to engage with the unknown ship sitting or approaching menacingly and silently.

No responses, tension mounts.

The silent ship's weapons are armed. Our shields are raised, our weapons armed!

The bulk of the episode is then filled with 10 minutes of an awesome cat and mouse cg space battle! With only momentary cuts showing our crew as they frantically maneuver to survive this.

battle battle battle

The unknown ship is mortally wounded. Or something like in Enterprise where it just goes away.

No answers learned. Only questions in our own and our crew's minds.

WHY? Where did they come from? Will they be back? What was this about? Were they pirates? Were they scouting for a species? 'Did they perceive us a threat? Will they be coming back? Are they just the tip of an.... armada?!!!

All left completely unanswered as we return to our crew in the process of beginning to repair the ship, attending to the hurt and diseased, ......having to just move forward.

Like in Masters & Commanders of the Far Side of the World up to the point where they figured out who that other ship was.

With the significant dialogue in the film being a total of approximately four minutes split between the opening and closing scenes of the film.

I would enjoy seeing a story something like that.

Sounds like a typical fan video. Pew pew pew! Shields down to doesn'tmatter percent.

 

[Warped9]

Sounds like a typical fan video. Pew pew pew! Shields down to doesn'tmatter percent.

The sort of thing I really have no interest in seeing if that is the sole reason for its existence.

 

[asurob]

The question I ask is can you invoke any emotion, does the viewer become vested enough in any of the characters to be stirred by a gallant victory or a twist of fate leading to defeat? Does a message about, post traumatic stress, bullying, a lonely entity or other become so nonexistent due to time restraints that the general viewer isn't left with anything to ponder after the ending?
People say some really popular under 30 minute stuff was once created, some of my early favorites were Sky King and Cannonball Express, sort of an early version of Route 66 except they hauled freight around Canada. Was it good or popular because back then the choice was limited? If it was good, was it the story, actors, settings or props?
Bonanza found success in the early 60's with their hour episodes and converted a lot of viewers into accepting the longer episode format. Did we become used to the deeper character development an hour long script afforded us?
You can tell short stories using Star Trek metaphors along with all the great tools built in and available but will you ever go where no Star Trek has gone before?
We honestly did a really wonderful story called Sanctuary, written by Homer Eversole, I'd love to someday see an hour long version of it.

Honestly 30 minutes is plenty of time.

A lot of people worry about not being able to get into enough depth with the main characters or even the secondary ones where you get to know them and I couldn't disagree more.

I'm in the middle of binge watching 30 rock right now. I know that is just a sitcom but each episode runs about 22 to 23 minutes. Each episode usually has some conflict with the main two characters as well as minor ones with the secondary characters. At the end of the 20 or so minutes each of the 3 conflicts is resolved...none of it rushed. The writing of the show is more then good enough for me to get to know...in depth...each of the main characters as well as the supporting cast. Now because these are reoccurring characters (for the most part) we can go into follow on episodes already knowing that Tina Fey sucks at dating or Alec Baldwin (the two mains) is a corporate stooge with a heart. But there is nothing in the new guidelines saying you can't have reoccurring characters in your fan productions. You simply are not allowed to tell multi-arc epics. Any good writer with 30 minutes can tell a good story.

 

[dmac]

Honestly 30 minutes is plenty of time.

A lot of people worry about not being able to get into enough depth with the main characters or even the secondary ones where you get to know them and I couldn't disagree more.

I'm in the middle of binge watching 30 rock right now. I know that is just a sitcom but each episode runs about 22 to 23 minutes. Each episode usually has some conflict with the main two characters as well as minor ones with the secondary characters. At the end of the 20 or so minutes each of the 3 conflicts is resolved...none of it rushed. The writing of the show is more then good enough for me to get to know...in depth...each of the main characters as well as the supporting cast. Now because these are reoccurring characters (for the most part) we can go into follow on episodes already knowing that Tina Fey sucks at dating or Alec Baldwin (the two mains) is a corporate stooge with a heart. But there is nothing in the new guidelines saying you can't have reoccurring characters in your fan productions. You simply are not allowed to tell multi-arc epics. Any good writer with 30 minutes can tell a good story.

I understand perfectly what you can and can not do in a Star Trek fan film.
You can think you're going to rival The Wrath of Khan
You can not overload YouTube with people rushing to see it.
You can write a few cookie cutter plots with slight alterations from script to script.
You can not make me binge watch the same plot over and over again.