CBS's John Van Citters interviewed about The Guidelines
- Thread starter Wowbagger
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There's no requirement that you must buy and use licensed costumes. You're allowed to make your own.
Right. It's pretty clear from what van Citters said that you can always make your own. It's that if you buy anything, you need to buy a licensed product.
Yes, he did say that. He was pretty clear on that point. More clear than the written guidelines.
The wording "or imitations of such" implies that you can NOT make your own. At least, if they wanted to be jerks about it, a lawyer could make such an argument.
Also, what if you need something that is available from an unlicensed source but not from an officially licensed source? Let's say you need a Star Fleet Marine combat helmet, and Anovos doesn't carry them, but you find them on eBay from someone else. You made a good-faith effort to buy from Anovos, but they can't help you. I doubt that CBS would say much, but are you at risk of their wrath?
Another thing he said, something about selling self-made props. I don't have the exact quote, but it sounded like they don't want you to go into production making a ton of props to sell. But what if you do your one-and-done film, and now you want to sell the sets and props off, perhaps to someone else who might make their own fan-film. You're not making extras, just selling off what you actually used on-camera. Again, I don't see CBS having a cow over that, but it would be interesting to hear his answer, no?
If the fan production uses commercially-available Star Trek uniforms, accessories, toys and props, these items must be official merchandise and not bootleg items or imitations of such commercially available products.
The wording "or imitations of such" implies that you can NOT make your own. At least, if they wanted to be jerks about it, a lawyer could make such an argument.
Also, what if you need something that is available from an unlicensed source but not from an officially licensed source? Let's say you need a Star Fleet Marine combat helmet, and Anovos doesn't carry them, but you find them on eBay from someone else. You made a good-faith effort to buy from Anovos, but they can't help you. I doubt that CBS would say much, but are you at risk of their wrath?
Another thing he said, something about selling self-made props. I don't have the exact quote, but it sounded like they don't want you to go into production making a ton of props to sell. But what if you do your one-and-done film, and now you want to sell the sets and props off, perhaps to someone else who might make their own fan-film. You're not making extras, just selling off what you actually used on-camera. Again, I don't see CBS having a cow over that, but it would be interesting to hear his answer, no?
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There really isn't anything that I know of what was said that indicates C/P intends to be jerks about anything as long as no one goes the AP route.
I think this is indeed the essence of it.
There are lines that CBS/P definitely don't want you to cross--namely merchandising and profiting financially. They would also prefer one refrains from making it look like a production is endorsed in any way by CBS/P--hence they don't want recognizable faces clearly connected to official Trek productions appearing in fan projects.
The final sticking point would be they prefer fan productions to avoid full length episode or feature film length run times to avoid any possible confusion of it being an actual CBS/P production.
That's the one thing I wish the interviewer had pushed on -- I wish van Citter was directly asked "is this guideline intended to condone recurring characters as long as they appear in self-contained stories?"
It's not clear and the interview didn't make it any clearer.
Having listened to the interview twice, I'm convinced that some things were purposefully kept a little vague. It gives CBS/Paramount the freedom to interpret the guidelines as broadly as they can, if it becomes necessary.
It also makes it easier for CP to turn a blind eye at times.
I just saw this thread. Nice, Wowbagger! And thanks for the cite.
oh my gosh, Colorature, I've just been thinking that very thing! And however I may or may not have been introduced to or, I dunno, had access to in some form or another to know these other films existed (having also looked at the 'lists' thread on this board too), for some reason I've only stayed with Intrepid, Continues, & RS Diaries. (Have known abt & watched NV, Horizons, & Tim Russ's production) But now I find myself 'discovering' (so to speak LOLOL ) some of the others! Potemkin, when they posted their released their Chronicles of Lanclos, and today one called Isolation that was just cited in the BREAKING: Offic Guidlns thread.
Perhaps, for me at least, I've always assumed things remain the same? Specifically in the world of fan films or something? And now, because of the litigation & my new awareness of, maybe?, the tenuousness? of what I've taken for granted about it and 'everything' about my beloved Trek - how it exists/who's doing what, why, how/the effect of actions of the few and just one can negatively and profoundly impact the larger body of the many? It's become more personal in a way.... leading me to now explore with new respect in finding the just as devoted 'not' major players in fan films.
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There are several videos on YouTube slamming the CBS guidelines. I'm not going to waste my time watching / listening to them, but it appears they have a common theme: CBS is afraid of fan-films.
Just a few of the links:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OykTmNdatsk
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_hWRNUh88s
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDAwi6rtIm8
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzo9B6yOQLc
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgwzqn8UQ8o
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nks7oWLUKE
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVnhqCtC1QI
www.youtube.com/watch?v=obC9rJwstpA
www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1kibfq6_Zk
Enjoy! Or not.
Just a few of the links:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OykTmNdatsk
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_hWRNUh88s
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDAwi6rtIm8
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzo9B6yOQLc
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgwzqn8UQ8o
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nks7oWLUKE
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVnhqCtC1QI
www.youtube.com/watch?v=obC9rJwstpA
www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1kibfq6_Zk
Enjoy! Or not.
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Wow.
Ironically, possibly the cleanest list of shows that are really genuinely active today is this Axamonitor article listing which ones have shut down and which haven't. (FULL DISCLOSURE: I worked on this article. But I also worked on the TrekBBS's woefully-outdated fan film list, so either way you're getting your information from me!)
For a really really complete list of everything, of course, there is simply nothing better in the world than Barb Reader's startrekreviewed.blogspot.com.
Great way to discover shows you've never heard of!
My answer is 'not'.
I saw that AxaMonitor list! And went down it name by name to see what I hadn't known about. Over the past months I've been listening to the podcasted ST audio dramas I'd discovered. A couple, maybe three, ... don't remember now .... on the list that have closed up shop per AxaMonitor. But I had already (Yay!) gotten from iTunes!
And your list there 'was' greatly informative to me.
Good job, you.
The first list I ever looked at was yours here in TBBS!
Someone here in TBBS just recently turned me on to startrekreviewed.
I have delightedly found a couple of films that are quite memorable. Especially the one I posted - soommmeewwhheerreeoonnnTTBBBSSS - and where I can't remember anymore, but it was labeled on her site as (I think) The First Star Trek Fan Film Ever Made.
The one with the boys and the special effects made by scratching the film! It.Is.Brilliant. Well, to me I mean.
Long before our fan films began taking the shape they've now evolved into... there were all these wonderful fans just making homemade stuff. Which I lonnng to find. They are just so dear and earnest and raw and energetic and Everything!
And I know startrekreviewed has them, but frankly, for me, well right now anyway, her site is Daunting in its breadth of compilation. But she's there, I know where her site is, and I'll keep dipping my toe in the waters there. Looking for those precious origins of the fan film community as well as all the current days established Star Trek fan film production Companies!
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Just a wild guess
That's it!!
It makes me sick that Paramount feels so threatened by this. They get a cut from authors writing books. So, license these productions & take a cut. Worst of all, they are restricting former cast members, writers, set & costume designers, etc. Seriously? These people can't be fans & participate in fan films? Is that even legal? How then can they be featured at conventions or record for audiobooks? How are audio dramas (including audio books) any different? I guess I'M the idiot...
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