Prove me wrong musically

[Romo Lampkin]

I read something on the web which hit a nerve, rock music doesn't suit the times. So this decade is witness to rising right wing nationalism, mainstream cinema reaching a total nadir and neo liberal capitalism run rampant with mass austerity, impoverishment and blah blah blah, otherwise known as an almost BSG cyclical repeat of the 1930s. And the music is ass! Or is it? I would like to be proven wrong, are there any interesting rock bands out there? The problem as I see it is that yes, there's never been a better time to get your music out there, but 99.5% of bands are unoriginal and closely copying what has gone before. Phil Anselmo has a point, where once a band would have ten influences and create something new out of them, now they imitate one band and play in that style, and it's kind of true, there's nothing really exciting out there, just formulaic rock (maybe that's because the genre has been exhausted but I also think it's possible because of musical conservatism and a playing to scene/fanbase approach).

I've discovered a new genre (to me at least) called Synthwave, I'd recommend Lazerhawk and Mega Drive as really good artists worth checking out, but they just don't have the same depth and richness as say Pink Floyd. Even if they do sound 'crusty', 'old' and uncool Pink Floyd shits over almost all modern music. I know, everyone has different opinions, it's all subjective, but I don't view music or art as a flat plane of relativism, there are just some legitimately better artists, Taylor Swift, Ellie Goudling, Skillrex and Ed Sheeran are never going to be as good as Queen or Radiohead, and Kanye West is a perfect example of Emperor's New Clothe's Syndrome, there I said it. So I would like to be surprised because besides Ghost BC and Animals as Leaders I haven't found one rock band this decade that's excited me!

(Ps, it's not getting old either, 10 years ago when I was 21, I thought the neo punk revival was ass, although now I look back on it more forgivingly compared to what passes for popular music today).

 

[USS Triumphant]

This is totally subjective, so proving you "wrong" would be difficult. But if you're just looking for input on music that fellow board members think has artistic merit, then I will point you at almost everything Marina and The Diamonds has done, but especially:

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[Owain Taggart]

There are a lot of interesting bands out there. The thing is, with the internet, it's made it a lot easier for much more stuff to be published, so anything of note sometimes gets drowned out. But it's there if you dig deep enough. Look long enough and you'll find something that will suit you.

The interesting thing as of late is that there seems to be a lot more fusion between genres, which perhaps makes it more difficult to find something, but it also means more chance for something truly original. I think Rock of the 50's & 60's emerged out of the fusion of country and r&b, yet we now see it as being very definitive.

I think musical experiences have a lot to do where one is situated. Music is very global, but what's popular might be different where one lives, therefore the exposure one gets might be very different.

 

[Nerys Myk]

How are we defining "rock" this year? I lean towards what Ice Cube said at NWA induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

Rock & roll is not an instrument, rock & roll is not even a style of music. Rock & roll is a spirit. It's a spirit. It's been going since the blues, jazz, bebop, soul, R&B, rock & roll, heavy metal, punk rock and yes, hip-hop. And what connects us all is that spirit. That's what connects us all, that spirit. Rock & roll is not conforming to the people who came before you, but creating your own path in music and in life. That is rock & roll, and that is us.

 

[mos6507]

I think one thing that has really taken a back-seat in the 21st century is instrumental musicianship. People tend to gravitate towards singers and don't really care about virtuosity on instruments. The classic rock era was more about honoring and respecting virtuosity, especially the ability to improvise. Think of all the jam bands like the Grateful Dead or Led Zeppelin. I think that stuff is dead as a doornail. Stuff like American Idol has emphasized the voice above all other kinds of musicianship. You can also blame technology (techno and hip-hop) for the decline of instrumental prowess, and yet at the same time, look at the success of Daft Punk's Random Access Memories, which was kind of a wake-up call where Daft Punk said: "hey people, check Nile Rogers (or even Paul Williams of all people) out. Analog can be cool too! Where would we be if we didn't have the original stuff to sample/steal from in the first place?"

I think we're at a self-reflexive point culturally where we struggle to brave new territory and therefore go back and recycle things that were created when mass media seemed to have more uncharted territory. So much entertainment is instantly accessible, and so much of it's out there, that we're all kind of walking encyclopedias and sites like Youtube (copyright ID be damned) seems to have a copy of every song ever recorded like a universal jukebox.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think one thing that has really taken a back-seat in the 21st century is instrumental musicianship. People tend to gravitate towards singers and don't really care about virtuosity on instruments

I think that's always been true in pop music. The front man is often key to a band's success. Plant, Daltrey, Sinatra and Presley come to mind. Sometimes the guy out front is also a talented instrumentalist like Prince.

 

[Owain Taggart]

I think one thing that has really taken a back-seat in the 21st century is instrumental musicianship. People tend to gravitate towards singers and don't really care about virtuosity on instruments.

I've noticed that as well. But on the other hand, when something does come around that's all about the musicianship in this day & age, I tend to sit up and notice much more. I also think that originality can come from having a unique focus. There's a local band that are very good musicians, and they decided to be a band that focuses on murder ballads.

Not a new song mind you, but here they are covering The Ballad of the Last Gunfighter:

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I love the harmonies on this one, how they all come together, and their musicianship.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Why get hung up on what is popular? The reason artist driven music isn't popular is that artists can sign small labels and thrive on a niche audience with no label creative intervention.

Don't worry about what sells millions, worry about what sounds good. There is tons of it.

 

[mos6507]

BTW, I somewhat take back what I said about instrumental virtuosity. There IS an interest in this but it has to be tied to novelty: like a cute woman shreds on guitar or playing unusual genres on ukelele or harp. In these cases it's more about finding ways to grab attention than it is about the virtue of the musicianship itself. It's almost a fetish at this point, and it's all about delivering covers regardless.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Maybe you're not looking in the right places
Top 10: 21st Century Guitar Gods
The ten best guitar heroes of the 21st Century
top-ten-most-influential-guitarists-of-the-2000s

 

[sojourner]

You're wrong, you're wrong
you're just not right,
everything you said failed to come out right,

Your thesis is based on opinion and not on fact,
but you've stated your a position and there's no turning back,
When others see this thread they'll turn and laugh
because the very idea is full of crap

yes, you're wrong, you're wrong
you're just not right,
everything you posted fails on sight.

Don't worry too much, memory is short
come the 'morrow another thread will get the retorts
We won't think less of you for what you've done
many people like to troll threads of this sort

so even though..
you're wrong, you're wrong,
you're just not right
we can commiserate with your plight.


That's the best I can do musically.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You're wrong, you're wrong
you're just not right,
everything you said failed to come out right,

Your thesis is based on opinion and not on fact,
but you've stated your a position and there's no turning back,
When others see this thread they'll turn and laugh
because the very idea is full of crap

yes, you're wrong, you're wrong
you're just not right,
everything you posted fails on sight.

Don't worry too much, memory is short
come the 'morrow another thread will get the retorts
We won't think less of you for what you've done
many people like to troll threads of this sort

so even though..
you're wrong, you're wrong,
you're just not right
we can commiserate with your plight.


That's the best I can do musically.

 

[Romo Lampkin]

You're wrong, you're wrong
you're just not right,
everything you said failed to come out right,

Your thesis is based on opinion and not on fact,
but you've stated your a position and there's no turning back,
When others see this thread they'll turn and laugh
because the very idea is full of crap

yes, you're wrong, you're wrong
you're just not right,
everything you posted fails on sight.

Don't worry too much, memory is short
come the 'morrow another thread will get the retorts
We won't think less of you for what you've done
many people like to troll threads of this sort

so even though..
you're wrong, you're wrong,
you're just not right
we can commiserate with your plight.


That's the best I can do musically.

Meh, I'm not going to engage with this other than to say I'm indifferent to your "opinion" and you probably have insecurity issues. Like I mean even if I didn't agree with something someone said I wouldn't feel the need you clearly do to put them down with a lame attempt at "sarcastic humour", points for the effort to make it lyrical but otherwise, I feel sorry for you.

Moving on, Marina and the Diamonds is everything I hate about the current state of music, it's over mastered, generic pop. I hear these stock replies of it's never been so good for music, but where is the evidence? It's not enough to say this with providing some examples. I'll go against the consensus here and elsewhere and point this out, it's not like culture and art are always on the ascendent, like everything there are peaks and troughs, you're going to get booms and recessions and we're way past the boom. You remember 12 Monkeys when Bruce Willis is saying the music is great in the 20th century compared to his own time, that's how it is now.

 

[1001001]

Have you ever asked yourself what would happen if Pink Floyd and Tool had a child?

Here's your answer:

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Enjoy

 

[Romo Lampkin]

Ah yes, Porcupine Tree are good, I do enjoy Steve Wilson's music. He originated from the 90s though, there aren't many shiny new artists that are any good in this decade. I would say The Contortionist aren't bad but they reflect a general problem with rock being derivative in that they're prog by numbers, too bound by genre limitations and audience expectations. The best thing a band can do is to say fuck the audience, we make music for ourselves, that's where originality comes from, otherwise you get crowd pleasing boring music.

 

[Pingfah]

I quite like Steve Wilson's music, when he actually does put music on his records. Unfortunately, vast swathes of his musical output is diluted by seemingly endless ethereal soundscapes, that frankly just put me to sleep.

 

[1001001]

I quite like Steve Wilson's music, when he actually does put music on his records. Unfortunately, vast swathes of his musical output is diluted by seemingly endless ethereal soundscapes, that frankly just put me to sleep.

I don't like Wilson's solo stuff as much as I like Porcupine Tree. They had a lot of those "soundscape-y" cuts early on in their recording history, but their last 4 or 5 releases were pretty prog/metal/rock.

They're listed as "inactive" right now, but I'm hoping at some point Wilson comes to his senses and gets the band back together. We saw their last US Tour (The Incident) twice in San Francisco, and they were awesome.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Why get hung up on what is popular? :snip:
Don't worry about what sells millions, worry about what sounds good. There is tons of it.

I agree, mostly. But the reason for the "hang up" on what is popular is that up until the Internet began allowing us to assemble in our niches virtually (websites and forums, email and chat groups, etc), where we, for instance, probably know each other better here on this board due to our shared love of Trek than I know my neighbors, we collectivized much more by geographical proximity even though we didn't have as much in common, and shared culture helped bring us together.

So not only do we like to think that other people are "smart" or "cool" because they like what we like , but it plays a role in our national cohesion. Which explains a lot about the state the US is in - we're being held together by the terrible rap, braindead pop, and shitty "New Country" that still makes the Billboard charts.

Marina and the Diamonds is everything I hate about the current state of music, it's over mastered, generic pop.

You're not moving past your own pre-conceptions, and testing that is part of why I chose the works of Marina Diamandis (the "band" is one woman, whose work I *do* love) to suggest. Her lyrical genius *should* be apparent even to someone who doesn't like her overall work - and the lyrics to two of the three songs I posted are actually lamenting *exactly* the same lack of depth to our culture that you seem to be hitting on with your comments about music.

If you just don't *like* an artist's work, that's fine - entirely in the eye of the beholder. It just isn't your bag. But dismissing any and all *artistic integrity or merit* *just* because of that is narrowing yourself too much and being unfair to the artists.

I, personally, don't care at all for most jazz. I would not dream of claiming that Wynton Marsalis is not a talented artist.

 

[Romo Lampkin]

I agree, mostly. But the reason for the "hang up" on what is popular is that up until the Internet began allowing us to assemble in our niches virtually (websites and forums, email and chat groups, etc), where we, for instance, probably know each other better here on this board due to our shared love of Trek than I know my neighbors, we collectivized much more by geographical proximity even though we didn't have as much in common, and shared culture helped bring us together.

So not only do we like to think that other people are "smart" or "cool" because they like what we like , but it plays a role in our national cohesion. Which explains a lot about the state the US is in - we're being held together by the terrible rap, braindead pop, and shitty "New Country" that still makes the Billboard charts.

You're not moving past your own pre-conceptions, and testing that is part of why I chose the works of Marina Diamandis (the "band" is one woman, whose work I *do* love) to suggest. Her lyrical genius *should* be apparent even to someone who doesn't like her overall work - and the lyrics to two of the three songs I posted are actually lamenting *exactly* the same lack of depth to our culture that you seem to be hitting on with your comments about music.

If you just don't *like* an artist's work, that's fine - entirely in the eye of the beholder. It just isn't your bag. But dismissing any and all *artistic integrity or merit* *just* because of that is narrowing yourself too much and being unfair to the artists.

I, personally, don't care at all for most jazz. I would not dream of claiming that Wynton Marsalis is not a talented artist.

Fair enough, I'll take at her lyrics, but I was commenting on the music, I generally don't listen to the lyrics.

 

[Nerys Myk]

If you're not listening to the lyrics, you're missing half the music. Rock and Pop are very lyric driven in my opinion.