[Question] Why do people hate VOY so much?

[Bry_Sinclair]

Well, the premise forbade them from building a support base or spreading influence.

How long did they travel near to Talaxian space? They may not be a major player but they could at least have provided some support for Voyager. Likewise any other friendly races that had a large holding of territory that could've been an ally.

Canceled?

I'd rather watch the last season of SGU than the last four of Voyager any day of the week.

 

[apollo1984]

I'd rather watch the last season of SGU than the last four of Voyager any day of the week.

I still want to know whether Eli repaired the stasis pod and survived. I don't mind show's being cancelled but not with cliffhangers on characters I liked.

 

[Anwar]

How long did they travel near to Talaxian space? They may not be a major player but they could at least have provided some support for Voyager. Likewise any other friendly races that had a large holding of territory that could've been an ally.

If that were a possibility, then the show wouldn't have gotten complaints whenever they did make allies or get local help.

As for SGU, it had tons of cheats in it that VOY didn't have.

 

[Catarina]

I'll keep my assumptions simple:

1: Lack of continuity as this show didn't work episodically.
2. Castrating the Borg
3. Neelix
4. Seven of Nine with Chakotay

 

[Lynx]

Some people must have something to hate.

Other than that, Voyager had the disadvantage to be the third series and the second spin-off. It also had its premier around the time when TNG fans still mourned their show and the DS9 fans had found their series and enjoyed it as it was.

Add to that some serious mistakes by the writers and producers. Instead of letting Voyager find its own niche by really using the premise and the great characters, they were constantly looking at ratings and tried to make it a second TNG. Plus the continuity errors and that those people who had done a great job with TNG now were tired and without ideas and did seem to lost direction already in season 3. After that it was quick fixes, sexing up the show, bringing in the Borg and TNG holograms before finally giving up.

The fact that those in charge also insulted many of the fans by ruining Kes and coming up with that Chakotay/Seven thing didn't help either.

Personally I don't hate Voyager. On the contrary, I still have a strange affection for the series itself and the characters despite being very dissapointed by some things in the series.

 

[Lynx]

How long did they travel near to Talaxian space? They may not be a major player but they could at least have provided some support for Voyager. Likewise any other friendly races that had a large holding of territory that could've been an ally.


I'd rather watch the last season of SGU than the last four of Voyager any day of the week.

I just have to comment on that one.

I actually like Stargate SG1 and I also really like Stargate Atlantis. Those series weren't as good as Star Trek but they still had something, at least good characters and exciting, good written episodes. After being terribly dissapointed with the later seasons of Voyager and especially certain events in season 6 and after giving up on the boring Enterprise after about five episodes, the re-runs of Stargate SG1 on one of my channels added with all episodes of Stargate Atlantis which I hadn't seen before was like a breath of fresh air.

But then came Stargate Universe.

It made Enterprise look lika a masterpiece.

I must admit having some expectations on SGU after watching SG1 and Atlantis. But it was such a dissapointment that I quit after a few episodes.

I mean, it was like a mirror universe Voyager or "worst nightmare Voyager".

We had an alcoholic captain that wasn't capable of being Picard's shoe polisher, we had a female boss for the "civil fraction" who constantly tried to create friction and problems on board the ship (almost a dark parody of the Starfleet-Maquis tension going bad), we had the "action hero" and the "bad guy" who were parodies of such characters, we had a female, some ambassador's daughter whose only interest did seem to be to have sex with "action guy", we had a female doctor who spent the whole first season complaining that "I shouldn't have been on this ship", a fat computer guy who made Harry Kim look like Superman and a crazy scientist who did all he could to see that the ship remained lost in space.

Add to that, the constant bickering, arguing and complaining among the crew members which went on for the whole first season. I actually cheered for the pale blue aliens who showed up in the middle of the season. "Finally some action!", I thought. Unfortunately, it didn't last long. Later on the Lucian Alliance did lighten up the total darkness but that was all.

I wrote before that I quit watching after a few episodes. How can I know so much about the series then?

Well, that's because I started watching it again after missing out two episodes and the reason for that was that I'd told a relative of mine about how boring the series was and when my relative told me that he had tried to watch some episodes and had fallen asleep on two occasions while watching, then the series became a joke for both of us and I had to start watching it again only because of that.

We actually watched, discussed it and laughed because it was so bad!

The only character I did find entertaining was the crazy scientist Rush. Mostly because Robert Carlyle is such an excellent actor but also because Carlyle is a dead-ringer to a crazy person I worked with once so that became an in-joke between me and my relative as well.

I could never understand why they scrapped the excellent Stargate Atlantis after five seasons to come up with SGU.

I'm not a fan of Voyager's later seasons but I would rather watch themthan Stargate Universe. The only exception is one horrible, insulting crap episode of Voyager in season 6. Compared with that crap episode is Stargate Universe at least funny.

 

[Anwar]

Add to that some serious mistakes by the writers and producers. Instead of letting Voyager find its own niche by really using the premise and the great characters, they were constantly looking at ratings and tried to make it a second TNG. Plus the continuity errors and that those people who had done a great job with TNG now were tired and without ideas and did seem to lost direction already in season 3. After that it was quick fixes, sexing up the show, bringing in the Borg and TNG holograms before finally giving up.

It didn't help that VOY's premise didn't mesh with what TOS and TNG had already established. Both series stated that a 75,000 Light year trip wouldn't take that long compared to Voyager's 75 year estimate.

 

[Isolinear]

People don't hate Voyager but they often seem to think it's the weakest of the bunch. I don't agree. As long as you ignore continuity, most episodes are just as good as TNG and DS9. And it's certainly better than Enterprise.

 

[Binary]

I love Enterprise. For mainly, the reasons that I don't like Voyager. I think part of the reason people don't like Voyager is it's the THIRD spin-off. By then, almost every type of story and theme they could come up with, had been used before... Also, the characters were not terribly interesting or fresh. Harry Kim was the young, eager junior officer who had lousy luck with girls. He was Geordi LaForge without the visor. Belana with a human and Klingon half was a female Worf. (The full Klingon, but surrounded by human ways and culture his whole life.) See a pattern forming?... The characters on Enterprise were more dynamic, more exaggerated. Tripp was the good old, southern boy and a bit of a goof ball. The adorable Hoshi was nervous and unsure of herself. (No one in TNG ever got frantic during a crisis. Not Deanna Troi, not Wesley; Nobody!) The Voyager characters were interesting! I think Voyager missed out on that.

 

[Lynx]

People don't hate Voyager but they often seem to think it's the weakest of the bunch. I don't agree. As long as you ignore continuity, most episodes are just as good as TNG and DS9. And it's certainly better than Enterprise.

I must also state that each of the first three seasons of Voyager had fewer bum episodes than any TNG season.

 

[Lynx]

I love Enterprise. For mainly, the reasons that I don't like Voyager. I think part of the reason people don't like Voyager is it's the THIRD spin-off. By then, almost every type of story and theme they could come up with, had been used before... Also, the characters were not terribly interesting or fresh. Harry Kim was the young, eager junior officer who had lousy luck with girls. He was Geordi LaForge without the visor. Belana with a human and Klingon half was a female Worf. (The full Klingon, but surrounded by human ways and culture his whole life.) See a pattern forming?... The characters on Enterprise were more dynamic, more exaggerated. Tripp was the good old, southern boy and a bit of a goof ball. The adorable Hoshi was nervous and unsure of herself. (No one in TNG ever got frantic during a crisis. Not Deanna Troi, not Wesley; Nobody!) The Voyager characters were interesting! I think Voyager missed out on that.

I have to disagree here.

I think that Voyager had the most interesting characters of all Star Trek series. Not so much the typical Starfleet cut-outs, instead more interesting characters, some with a troubled background which made them stick out andbecome more intersting than many of the typical Starfleet characters. The premise for the series was also great.

As for Enterprise, I was never too fond of the idea of a retro series and I didn't like that they screwed up established Trek history the way it was done. maybe I would have liked it more if it had taken place in the 24th century and if I hadn't been so p****d off with some recent events of Voyager when it started.

I liked Trip and Doctor Phlox was OK but T'Pol was a disaster and the rest of them weren't as good as the TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY characters.

However, compared to Stargate Universe, Enterprise was a masterpiece!

 

[Isolinear]

I liked Trip and Doctor Phlox was OK but T'Pol was a disaster and the rest of them weren't as good as the TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY characters.

People here accuse Janeway of psychotic mood swings, but hers are nothing compared to Archers. That man had some serious problems. One moment annoyingly meek, a raging bigot the next. And in Season 3 he became 'determined depressed leader' who forgot how to smile. Ever.

The rest of them were.... boring. The only ones I really liked were Phlox, Trip and maybe Reed.

 

[Catarina]

Personally I don't hate Voyager. On the contrary, I still have a strange affection for the series itself and the characters despite being very disappointed by some things in the series.

ditto

 

[JeffinOakland]

"Hate" is a strong word. I prefer "disappointed by". For me, after DS9 took Star Trek in a bold, new direction (space station, continuing storyline, heavy involvement of minor characters), Voyager was just a mostly gutless Star Trek: The Next Generation Part 2 but with, in general, less interesting and less likable characters.

 

[Richard Baker]

Voyager had promise and if they had stuck with the original concept it could have been great. After giving lip service to limitations and trying to integrate the Marquis crew it suddenly morphed into Next Gen Lite.
The Equinox showed what Voyager should have been after one season- no repair/resets, struggling crew contending with survival and desperate to find a solution to get home. The Voyager always looked like it just left the car wash and if they didn't say every so often how much progress they have made towards Federation Space you would think they were just wandering around trying to find some anomaly of the week.

There are still some great shows, but all in all the show seemed inconsistent in how they wrote characters. The worst thing is that they actually managed to make the Borg boring.

 

[fireproof78]

People here accuse Janeway of psychotic mood swings, but hers are nothing compared to Archers. That man had some serious problems. One moment annoyingly meek, a raging bigot the next. And in Season 3 he became 'determined depressed leader' who forgot how to smile. Ever.

The rest of them were.... boring. The only ones I really liked were Phlox, Trip and maybe Reed.

Archer or Janeway as the craziest captain?

"Hate" is a strong word. I prefer "disappointed by". For me, after DS9 took Star Trek in a bold, new direction (space station, continuing storyline, heavy involvement of minor characters), Voyager was just a mostly gutless Star Trek: The Next Generation Part 2 but with, in general, less interesting and less likable characters.

This sums up my feelings as well. There were very few characters that I could get attached to in a meaningful way, and I'm speaking as a person who was reading magazine articles about make-up for VOY. As it wore on, it became a little more interesting, but then 7 of 9 showed up, and I couldn't enjoy her character as much.

Voyager had promise and if they had stuck with the original concept it could have been great. After giving lip service to limitations and trying to integrate the Marquis crew it suddenly morphed into Next Gen Lite.
The Equinox showed what Voyager should have been after one season- no repair/resets, struggling crew contending with survival and desperate to find a solution to get home. The Voyager always looked like it just left the car wash and if they didn't say every so often how much progress they have made towards Federation Space you would think they were just wandering around trying to find some anomaly of the week.

There are still some great shows, but all in all the show seemed inconsistent in how they wrote characters. The worst thing is that they actually managed to make the Borg boring.

I agree with the inconsistency and the TNG Lite. There was no risk in the formula.

 

[apollo1984]

People here accuse Janeway of psychotic mood swings, but hers are nothing compared to Archers. That man had some serious problems. One moment annoyingly meek, a raging bigot the next. And in Season 3 he became 'determined depressed leader' who forgot how to smile. Ever.

The rest of them were.... boring. The only ones I really liked were Phlox, Trip and maybe Reed.

Well in fairness to Archer, he had zero command experience before taking charge of enterprise, its not like the modern star fleet where he could spend years as a commander and xo of a ship. Also in fairness to Archer Janeway had years of starfleet rules and regulations to follow, for the whole Archer had to follow his conscious against trying to figure out what to do/not to do while exploring.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Janeway was fairly inconsistent, at times she was a hardcore scientist then the next episode she came across as a hardened warrior. More should've been made of her intellect and to think her way out of situations, instead it always seemed to resort to phaser fighters. Also Janeway becoming a "mother hen" to the crew annoyed me, coming off as stereotypical for a female lead.

That being said she was light-years better than the bumbling idiot that was Archer.

Starfleet wasn't a large organisation, but it did have numerous ships for officers to cut their teeth on. Archer seemed to go from test pilot to Captain without much thought of actually training him up as a diplomat or a tactician. He seemed to get the job simply by riding on the coat tails of his father.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I always hear about the fuss over DS9, that people who were dismissive of it, and for years, are coming around, now, and declaring it as la Crème de la Crème. I'm sure that VOY will be even better regarded in the years, ahead. Even the movies Nemesis, and The Final Frontier have become much more appreciated, over the fullness of time. STAR TREK is like that, you know ... it has to age, like wine, before audiences finally come around and appreciate it for what it offers up, or what it wanted to be.

 

[apollo1984]

That being said she was light-years better than the bumbling idiot that was Archer.

Starfleet wasn't a large organisation, but it did have numerous ships for officers to cut their teeth on. Archer seemed to go from test pilot to Captain without much thought of actually training him up as a diplomat or a tactician. He seemed to get the job simply by riding on the coat tails of his father.

This is the reason why I grant Archer more leeway than any of the other captains, at the start of the show he was not captain material (far from it in fact) and that he had no idea what he was doing and had to make it up as he went along, at least in Janeways time, if in doubt she could fall back to some directive or another.

But back to Voyager, I do always have a question about pilot episode though, did Janeway break the PD by destroying the array? by star fleet rules should she not have brokered a deal with the Kazon to send the ship home and left the Kazon and the Ocompa to it? I know you can argue that the caretaker altered the balance by his arrival but does the PD extend to covering up/correcting other peoples interferance especially since they themselves follow no similar directive?

I only ask this as it was always a little reason I hated the pilot as I always saw it as Janeway braking starfleets PD and stranding her crew in the Delta Quadrant?