NOW YOU SEE it, now you don't: Learn the story of this weekend's leaked Axanar trailer, including how some donors complained about the release.
CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar
- Thread starter Richard Baker
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To be fair, there's also many, many accounts from people whose experiences with AP weren't positive. And not only were those experiences not positive, but they involved Alec threatening physical violence, as well. Is he acting on "bad advice" from his supporters when he posts a rant about finding someone "in real life" and kicking their ass?
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And? It doesn't mean that a lot of these spiralled posts are right, though.. and go deep within behavior that would get someone banned from TrekBBS if it were against someone else. I'm just saying, for myself, that it was a call to be more civil and professional in the future. I can't and won't make anyone else step up... but I don't think it's out of line for me to ask.
You know, I really respect that; how you feel, how you acted on your conviction!
This was Admirable! Non-aggressive face-to-face expressing your own take of this thing.
I 'am' happy to hear nothing untoward happened during your interaction.
Though it is here I do begin to find myself having difficulty reconciling your, may I assume around a couple of hours or less, interaction (Please correct me if it was indeed a much longer time!) ...anyway reconciling what you've experienced with all, everything, that I've read that he himself has been saying in print - for years now here on this board in his threads (two of which come to mind being the announcement thread & the dressing down thread of another fan film) and his many many other postings and writings in the production site, the other sites, various other internet places, in private messaging, tweets, emails, voicemails, and seen him in his own videos and others.
That voice, those words, are many times openly unwarrantedly cruel to people. All places that are -literally- traceable to him as the original identifiable source.
The things said about real people also attempting to live their dreams in the fan film world astound me. Even more so since for so long in this event those very people did not join in or add to negative discourse in before.. and later in return.
The condescending and belittling some of we the donors have experienced - directly from him - sometimes for donations being so small $$-wise as to be inconsequential and the donor irrelevant because of it. Others of us experiencing worse from daring to ask questions. And there is also far worse that has gone on; a group was set up to monitor the internet for postings from we donors and others anywhere they could be found that are in the monitors' opinions overly offensive to the production/people involved. To what end?
Then there are the threats, multiple, in writing, verifiable by the recipients, in emails, PMs, and even one voicemail that I know of. He has literally (in the exact definition of the word) intentionally and personally negatively impacted one person and intentionally & personally attempted multiple times to negatively impact many other people. I've seen his full name outings of internet IDs added to his condemnation of those posters.
Well now that's pretty danged awesome! I mean I would so find myself thrilled to see my own creative work being liked and used by others.
I sincerely respect your response and position in this matter. And, you know what, I could see something like that also going on behind the scenes that we may never be privy to.
This. This is a good and right. An admirable thing. Big thumbs up.
Yes. There is truth in that. Of course there is. Now I do have a question, which may be none of my business of course, though you have mentioned it yourself so I'll ask -- What LOT more have you learned?
Very admirable. A very admirable thing to think and say.
And, see, I have never ever conceived the thought that this person is one dimensionally bad. That kind of thing is such a rarity that one could almost say it never happens. Even with truly deeply irretrievably bad people. And not for a minute have I ever thought this was a truly deeply or irretrievably bad person. Never
I would also suggest charisma is there as well as what you say "genuine enthusiasm for his dream has spiraled into this situation".
Though, and this is only for me personally and not to diminish your own Very Positive Experience, Interaction with him, Opinion of him and Extremely Admirable Response to this situation.......
I do see much evidence from reading he himself, watching he himself in his own videos and others, things being said by him one day-denied another day, the experiences being reported by some high ups who have worked with or been in the in group with him, the some of we the donors who have experienced his wrath & condescension ... ..... that leans my thinking toward there being a far different and more pervasive other side of this person than necessarily shows in face to face venues. And that these extremely different sides are both being publicly expressed; face to face very nice, very warm, engaging - not face to face can be strikingly and markedly vindictive, full of wrath, cruel, intentionally mean, and unequivocally physical, emotional, and personal threats.
This is just too great a public extreme swing in this personality that is and as been documented, well, for years now, for your wonderfully reported very good experience to sooth or allay my worry and suspicions.
But I am happy that you spoke up here to tell us your experience, and if I may reiterate, your admirable action in this matter.
How long was your interaction with him at the convention? How much time did you spend together?
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It may not be out of line, but it may be unrealistic to expect people who have been (metaphorically) crapped on and literally threatened with physical violence to take a higher road. I don't fall into either camp, so I've tried to measure my comments accordingly.
And he was indeed civil to Axanar.. very nicely done He That Created the Titan.
ME on the other hand.
Actually, great time was had by all, in all honesty.
You know, I'm going to go even farther because it needs to be said.
Alec is aware of who I am for a variety of reasons, but I did feel a little bad about how one of my jokes became a LEGAL fight where I never intended it to be, so I felt morally compelled to apologize for that. It was something that got a bit out of my control so I want to him and apologized. I also said point blank, just to be honest, that I felt that his approach on Axanar was wrong, and I disagreed with what he was doing - face to face.
And he was extremely nice and respectful. We even got to joke a bit about the situation... particularly as I learned from a certain artist that EVERYTHING in text on Axanar is from my fonts... (thanks, Titan Guy! :P ) . I, personally, got the impression that his genuine enthusiasm for his dream has spiraled into this situation, and he's getting some very bad advice from his supporters and lawyers.
So I can't, in good faith, or in good conscious, just rip through him like so much I see here. I get everyone's point, but now having met and talked with him, and looking over this and knowing a LOT more than I did... I can't help but think that some of the vitriol we're seeing is actually making things worse and a fan-friendly solution even more untenable.
Because at the end of the day, really, even if I don't think Axanar is as important or as great as being made out to be by Axanar's supporters, I do want fans to enjoy being fans... and I find myself wishing, strongly, that that positive solution for all involved was possible at this point.
I completely respect your point of view and your desire to let people speak for themselves and cut them slack. That is my mentality too, believe it or not. Unfortunately, I have just had to give up on supporting that view of Alec's current way of living with others. Here is why.
I have tried to do this in my reading of Alec's postings online (board and business) when I have come across it. I respect all the effort he has made for collectors. I understand he probably has a real fan spirit in him.
But he seems to have two ways of interacting with people, and the less desirable one gives rise finally to a lot of anger in those he abuses. You could probably dedicate a whole bbs topic just to the ways he has concretely spoken outrageous words of abuse to specific people online, for example. I have seen enough of it to be personally convinced of that.
With regard to Axanar being something that has spiraled out of control on him and all the bad advice hypothesized, my feeling is that as soon as the lawsuit dropped, he could have made good with everyone.
He could have taken a bit of a beating to his reputation for judgment about basic things like reselling products without licenses, sure, but just said "look, I got too enthusiastic. There was probably even a bit of interest in becoming a professional Trek producer in the mix too. But I acknowledge the criticism, and the rights of the studios, and I will work with all interested parties to see that this comes to the best possible solution for everyone".
Did he do that? No he didn't. He defied the rights holders. He banned his own questioning donors on their own site after abusing them personally in writing. He to this day claims everything he has done is right except that an unpredictable and unfair studio appeared out of nowhere and sued him. That is, keep taking more and more, beyond any common sense, and claim that as long as the aggrieved party doesn't intervene, it must be permitted.
Then there are the reports of respected people who have quit on him with suggestions they are questioning the goings on at Axanar. And the near unanimous disagreement of other fan film managements with Alec's conduct.
So do I believe things spiraled out of control with him? No. He has had, I think, plenty of opportunities to get the spiral under control. It really seems like he is the cause of the spiral.
I do wish it was different.
Edit: just saw your comment about this thread making criticisms that would not be tolerated for others. I have taken action myself at times in this thread by PM appealing to a poster to remove a post, even though I am not a mod, when someone for some inexplicable reason decided to start digging into or speculating on the personal lives of anyone related to Axanar.
There is a limit. But it cannot be sustained with the same civility for things like Alec's endless claims of operating as a nonprofit just because after he pays himself and flies himself to conventions and builds himself a studio facility and putters around working on a film that will require a million more, there is no money left in his for-profit corporation. This deserves not just "professional" comment, but expressions of disbelief, partly motivated by a desire to see it stopped before it spirals out of control even worse. Which it has.
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I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Is it that people shouldn't make jokes about his PR blunders? Every time someone who is a stranger to Alec goes too far in the thread (talking about AP's private romantic life, making fun of RMB's weight), they're called out. And the people who have had really bad personal experiences with him are entitled to express their views, so long as they're not making threats (a behavior of AP's that you cropped out of my post in your reply).
In my opinion, AP & Co-conspirators have made themselves public figures and are therefore subject to ridicule. Just like George W. Bush, or Justin Bieber.
I'm here for news and information about the lawsuit, but also for the jokes. Ok, mostly the jokes.
I'm here for news and information about the lawsuit, but also for the jokes. Ok, mostly the jokes.
So... that trailer was terrible. Pure garbage (with the exception of the slo-mo VFX shots).
You know what got stuck in my head this weekend?
All this got started because of one man's fervent desire to return to the small screen a character only seen once in Trek and portrayed as a bat-shit crazy chameleon man...
...and it could be typecasting.
"Captain Foot-In-Mouth..."
"LORRRD-FOOT-IN-MOUTH!!!"
All this got started because of one man's fervent desire to return to the small screen a character only seen once in Trek and portrayed as a bat-shit crazy chameleon man...
...and it could be typecasting.
"Captain Foot-In-Mouth..."
"LORRRD-FOOT-IN-MOUTH!!!"
I just read that was an intentional nod to Alien. Surely that's fair enough, though? I personally like stuff like that in actual movies, The Force Awakens was full of it, for example.
"In my opinion, AP & Co-conspirators have made themselves public figures and are therefore subject to ridicule. Just like George W. Bush, or Justin Bieber"
And though I do understand where this is coming from, and absolutely the why of it, nonetheless I cannot agree. Public figures, while easily subject to intense scrutiny, and in this particular case what I feel is necessary scrutiny, are Human Beings.... just like I am. For me at least, ridicule is not something in me I wish to enjoy or foster. Taking pleasure in another Human's pain, mistakes, bad actions and the like, no matter them being a public figure or no. For while Public can be chosen or sometimes thrust on a Human I do not adhere to the sentiment of Public equating to fair game. Or ridicule of the subjectively perceived ridiculous. I have seen first hand in the case of this production in particular the effect of ridicule on some of the Humans who, for one reason or another (which I seriously can't fathom) fully support this production, and some of us who do not support it.
I will continue to decry actions, state my subjective opinions, point out perceived flaws, but ridicule? Not for me anyway. I think I'm quoting a moderator here when I paraphrase & say "Just because I can doesn't mean I should." And I believe this. And though I will grant that I am not always the person I strive to be in this or any respect, I will say I continue to strive in that direction.
And though I do understand where this is coming from, and absolutely the why of it, nonetheless I cannot agree. Public figures, while easily subject to intense scrutiny, and in this particular case what I feel is necessary scrutiny, are Human Beings.... just like I am. For me at least, ridicule is not something in me I wish to enjoy or foster. Taking pleasure in another Human's pain, mistakes, bad actions and the like, no matter them being a public figure or no. For while Public can be chosen or sometimes thrust on a Human I do not adhere to the sentiment of Public equating to fair game. Or ridicule of the subjectively perceived ridiculous. I have seen first hand in the case of this production in particular the effect of ridicule on some of the Humans who, for one reason or another (which I seriously can't fathom) fully support this production, and some of us who do not support it.
I will continue to decry actions, state my subjective opinions, point out perceived flaws, but ridicule? Not for me anyway. I think I'm quoting a moderator here when I paraphrase & say "Just because I can doesn't mean I should." And I believe this. And though I will grant that I am not always the person I strive to be in this or any respect, I will say I continue to strive in that direction.
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"Empty Airport Bathroom" is also the location for the next Axanar panel.
If you want a place in the Trek pantheon of actors, choosing the barely-mentioned tragic meta-hero that inspired Kirk is not a bad place to write yourself in. You get built-in reverence from the mythology, and if you can find a way to pull it off yourself, you get to write your own origin story and not bend to the studio or anyone else's wishes.
Unfortunately, meta-heros don't sell unlicensed models of their ship on the side.
Did anyone pick up the PTSD subplot.... because it was supposed to be about PTSD....
Then I will agree that you disagree.
It's the level of it, really. I don't pull punches about Axanar and my opinion of what's going on. And I'll mock the trial and tease Alec for his behavior.. (seriously, I'm not exactly a subtle person), but it's pretty clear that some people have gone well and beyond snark and teasing to serious stalkerish territory, and I think that fuels their own indignation.
As for 'what I learned', it wasn't really NDA level of anything, just a clearer understand of what Alec and his side is thinking and feeling (that latter may be being far more important) in this case and why things continue to be so abrasive. Not agreeing with their position (and I've really only seriously looked at the legal perspectives), but it was a pretty humanizing moment. for me.
How long did you talk with him?
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