They really weren't doing that either. The effects in TOS-R were nowhere near as good as those in Enterprise, which was a pretty decent 720-ish effort that isn't aging terribly well.
do you think TOS should have been remastered?
- Thread starter Clym
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They really weren't doing that either. The effects in TOS-R were nowhere near as good as those in Enterprise, which was a pretty decent 720-ish effort that isn't aging terribly well.
Since the show was made in the past, and the remaster was merely supposed to clean up the existing images, yes, that's the point he's trying to make.
Starfleet doesn't exist. Star Trek was a TV show. The TV show had two ship designers, Matt Jefferies and Wah Chang. To keep the feel of the original show as they promised, any new ships should carry one of those men's design ethic.
The point is sailing over your head. They didn't have CGI in 1969. The point is to keep the show looking like it looked originally, only with cleaner images. The effects shouldn't look any different than they did originally in terms of content, just cleaned up visually. While CGI was the only affordable way to replace the original effects, the CGI should simply have duplicated the original effects exactly, in terms of action and angles. It doesn't matter if CGI can do something clever that models couldn't do in 1966-69, because it would be out of place in a 50-year-old TV show.
Of course. Though I never had an objection to the project, I just think much of the work CBS Digital did was pretty poor.
Not necessarily. There are people who like the changes. But if the changes never existed then they probably would have liked the improved effects anyway. So you have two scenarios: either make changes, dividing fans into those who like the changes and those who don't; or improve the appearance of the effects while not changing in the content, the fans support the improvement because there are no changes to divide them. It's the same with the reboots. The reboots, and the resulting fracture was unnecessary, as both fan unity and financial success could have been accomplished without it. It's not a no-win scenario, they just made some poor choices.
Yes, but TOS only had one person designing it. Jefferies. He defined the look of TOS sets and vehicles. If you're doing something that is supposed to look like the world of TOS, it needs to look like Jefferies.
Don't forget Wah Chang!
It was a business decision to keep the property viable as consumers moved to HD video equipment. If that was commercially successful, and I think it was, that's a "win."
The segment of the audience who disagrees with the FX quality, choices etc. is very small. As long as the original versions are still available, I don't really care, but I do think the versions on broadcast or streaming should be labeled as revised.
TOS-R has reawakened my love for TOS. After hundreds of viewings over the decades it had become stale to look at. The remastering gives new reason to rewatch. Even less desirable episodes now at least have HD going for them. Tons of never before before seen detail to marvel, or cringe 
over.
Beloved episodes now come to 'life' as never before, every department benefits of the remastering.
The 'dated looking' effects actually, work, imo because they appear as cgi may have looked if it had existed back then, they are retro looking.
Is it perfect? No. I see things I would have done differently or even taken further than they did but there is still plenty of fun to be had.
over.Beloved episodes now come to 'life' as never before, every department benefits of the remastering.
The 'dated looking' effects actually, work, imo because they appear as cgi may have looked if it had existed back then, they are retro looking.
Is it perfect? No. I see things I would have done differently or even taken further than they did but there is still plenty of fun to be had.
TAS was produced by Filmation, not CBS. And, while the alien ships were really wacky, the Federation ships were all in line with the TOS style.
Just like how well TOS meshes with the rest of the franchise?
And they did. You can buy the broadcast versions in complete season for Blu-Ray or DVD. The CGI "remastering" is just an additional way to experience the story (just like how some of the movies have extended cuts). And a darn good way to boot.
The Starfleet point was an "un-universe" explanation why we it's not a problem that we now have different designers contributing models and stuff to the same series. And the point you're missing is that TOS-R was faithful to the original designs. They didn't stick ENT or TOS movie style-tech into it. Every single new ship created looked like something that could've been made back in the day.
Dude, they did that, you can buy copies of the cleaned-up broadcast versions. And, no offense, but the broadcast versions had some gosh-awful effects and cinematography (and I'm saying this as a long-time TOS fan who grew up watching the original versions). And finally, most of the new effects were exactly the same designs in the old show, just recreated to be crystal clear. Finally, why does a version, who's point of existence is to improve on the original effects, need to look exactly like it did back in the day? You might as well have just watched a HD version of the original effects.
Finally, TOS was never about the effects, it was about the story and the characters. That's why we're still watching this program 50 years after the fact. And if this facelift, which was faithful to the original series design while still making it fresh and new, gets more people a chance to enjoy it (people who would otherwise choke on the outdated effects), then it has more than justified its existence.
As stated before, the cinematography was really bad, so how would replicating it be a good thing? Also, some of the best stuff was the new angles, the fact that the Enterprise now moved more, that we got to see the shuttles do turns, etc. It made the series feel more real.
Finally, this isn't the first time we had CGI Enterprise effects. "Trials and Tribble-latons" (DS9) did. Should that show (praised for faithfully re-creating the TOS setting) have just recycled TOS footage for the Enterprise, K-7, etc., rather than re-creating those models with the best technology they had on hand at the time?
The point being missed is that WebLurker wants it consistent with productions that followed. That doesn't work because we're talking about distinctly different producrion eras and aesthtics.
This argument wouldn't be taking place if the enhancement had showed restraint and done it how it should have been done, as was succinctly pointed out upthread.
In a discussion with Doug Drexler he hit upon a salient point. In many cases in projects of this kind the new production people can't resist showing off. They can't resist "fixing" things to suit their own tastes rather than respecting and remaining consistent with the original source material. They actually need a director to rein them in and tell them exactly what to do and how to do it.
This argument wouldn't be taking place if the enhancement had showed restraint and done it how it should have been done, as was succinctly pointed out upthread.
In a discussion with Doug Drexler he hit upon a salient point. In many cases in projects of this kind the new production people can't resist showing off. They can't resist "fixing" things to suit their own tastes rather than respecting and remaining consistent with the original source material. They actually need a director to rein them in and tell them exactly what to do and how to do it.
Nothing, other than it doesn't suit the tastes of some today.
Weird, because I thought that they showed a lot of restraint. Case in point, in "Journey to Babel," the Orion ship was a pinwheel of light. Rather than just designing a brand-new ship, the new one still had the pinwheel look. Most of the effects are just more realistic versions of the original stuff.
Also, could someone please explain why the astetics are so different? And I'm not talking about CGI vs. models. I mean why the new ships don't look like they belong in the TV show purely on their design.
My go-to example is "Doomsday Machine." In the original version, we see the Enterprise firing phasers to something below the camera. We then cut to the planet killer being hit. It looks like it was stitched together from stock footage.
In the remastered version, we see the Enterprise flying alongside the machine, and shooting. There's still a closeup of the phasers bouncing off the hull (keeping the spirit of the old two-shot version there), but it now looks more seamless, like the ships actually were in the same battlefield.
If you can't see the difference then this discussion truly is pointless.
I don't have a problem with most of the new ships they added, but the Tholian ships are an utter mismatch to the design aesthetic of the show as a whole and the "dirty" texture map on the Klingon ship is completely at odds with basically everything on the series. The low-key lighting is also a complete nonfit with the show's overall look.
It is like comparing the painting styles of two distinctly different artists. Lots of people won't see the difference while to others the differences stand out starkly.
TOS' budget wasn't the only challenge. Another $10-20,000 per episode (1960's dollars) would have been huge and if the budget had remained reasonably stable throughout the three year run.
But they were also challenged by time. They could fall behind schedule and not have enough lead time for more thorough post-production. Indeed, unlike TNG where they could work late into the evening and into the early morning, TOS was restricted in the hours allowed for the staff to work.
TOS' budget wasn't the only challenge. Another $10-20,000 per episode (1960's dollars) would have been huge and if the budget had remained reasonably stable throughout the three year run.
But they were also challenged by time. They could fall behind schedule and not have enough lead time for more thorough post-production. Indeed, unlike TNG where they could work late into the evening and into the early morning, TOS was restricted in the hours allowed for the staff to work.
N/A.
"Trials and Tribble-ations" used new physical models of the Enterprise, the Klingon cruiser, and Station K-7 built by Gregory Jein, not CGI renderings.
http://startrekauction.blogspot.com/2009/12/trials-and-tribbleations.html
http://www.startrekpropauthority.com/2008/07/some-previously-unreleased-photos-of.html
http://www.startrekpropauthority.com/2015/08/star-trek-ds9-klingon-d7-battlecruiser.html
https://johneaves.wordpress.com/2011/05/06/greg-jeins-k7-space-station/
Kor
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