do you think TOS should have been remastered?

[Noname Given]

No it isn't. It destroys the curves of the original and is covered with an absolutely rotten texture map that we wouldn't have accepted when I worked in videogame development in 1999.

^^^
Thank you - I was going to say something similar, but you beat me to it.

To be fair, I think overall they did a good job with the new CGI in general, but specifically the D-7 CGI model was a big mis-step; and worse then the majority of shots originally done in the 1960ies that had the D7 model featured.

 

[UnknownSample]

killer cornucopia in papier-mâché

Here's what the original said to me, even as a kid: This thing is SO huge that it had to be blasted out of an asteroid or something -- too big to sculpt in any way but the crudest way. And they had no reason to make it "pretty" and streamlined... the cruder it looks, the more evident it is that they mean business. This wasn't a ship, turned out on an assembly line.

Not once did I ever wish it looked "nicer".

 

[Warped9]

The original looks alien because it doesn't look designed in the way we usually think of conventional design. It's a happy result of the way the miniature was constructed and filmed.

 

[WebLurker]

Antares as conceived and executed by Matt Jefferies et al in the late '60s would have been great. What some other guy thought it should be 40 years later, that doesn't interest me at all.

The TOS-R Antares was the same design as the drone ships from "More Tribbles, More Troubles" (TAS), so the design was from the same era as the TV show, not something cooked up 40 years later.

 

[Warped9]

^^ But it was conceived by someone else other than MJ several years after the fact.

 

[WebLurker]

^^ But it was conceived by someone else other than MJ several years after the fact.

As was pretty much 3/4ths of the stuff in the franchise.

 

[Warped9]

As was pretty much 3/4ths of the stuff in the franchise.

It's still retconning. It isn't so obvious because TAS was directly influenced by TOS. Stuff from after TAS...not do much.

 

[J.T.B.]

The TOS-R Antares was the same design as the drone ships from "More Tribbles, More Troubles" (TAS), so the design was from the same era as the TV show, not something cooked up 40 years later.

It's not just the design, but the decision that it should be that design.

 

[WebLurker]

It's still retconning. It isn't so obvious because TAS was directly influenced by TOS. Stuff from after TAS...not do much.

It's not just the design, but the decision that it should be that design.

But we never saw the Antares in the original episode. Before TOS-R, there was no official image used for it. And when they gave it one, it was a pre-existing design from the era, not a 21st century-created design that was supposed to emulate the old era.

 

[Warped9]

It's not just the design, but the decision that it should be that design.

Interesting that when Geoffrey Mandel drew up his freighter blueprints in the '70s he listed the Antares as a ship supposedly similar to the Huron from TAS' "The Pirates Of Orion." That actually would have made more sense than using the robot drone with a new section added.

Not showing the Antares originally was obviously a cost and time saving measure. It does leave us wondering what MJ might have come up with if given the time required.

 

[J.T.B.]

But we never saw the Antares in the original episode. Before TOS-R, there was no official image used for it. And when they gave it one, it was a pre-existing design from the era, not a 21st century-created design that was supposed to emulate the old era.

And like I said before, what someone thought it should be 40 years after the fact doesn't interest me.

 

[Warped9]

Following Geoffrey Mandel's initial thinking the Antares could have looked something like this.






Of course anything proposed after the fact is guesswork. It would be interesting to learn if MJ had at least sketched out some preliminary concept ideas for the Antares.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The TOS-R Antares was the same design as the drone ships from "More Tribbles, More Troubles" (TAS), so the design was from the same era as the TV show, not something cooked up 40 years later.

...Seven years after "Charlie X" aired is "the same era"?

 

[WebLurker]

Interesting that when Geoffrey Mandel drew up his freighter blueprints in the '70s he listed the Antares as a ship supposedly similar to the Huron from TAS' "The Pirates Of Orion." That actually would have made more sense than using the robot drone with a new section added.

Not showing the Antares originally was obviously a cost and time saving measure. It does leave us wondering what MJ might have come up with if given the time required.

Why not? in "The Ultimate Computer" (TOS), the Woden (which we know from the TOS-R version was also the same design as the TOS-R Antares/TAS robot grain ships, not an ancient DY-100 ship like originally used due to stock footage), is described as an older model converted for automation (just like the design's usage in TAS), meaning that it was originally staffed by crew (just like in "Charlie X" [TOS-R]). That makes perfect sense (and even fits with pre-established canon).

And like I said before, what someone thought it should be 40 years after the fact doesn't interest me.

Dude, a lot of stuff about the TOS-era was decided 40 years after after the fact (the type of sensors the original Enterprise had, the name of Koloth's ship ["Trials and Tribble-lations" [DS9]), the Polaric Test Ban Treaty ["Time and Again" (VGR)], the differences between the smooth and ridged headed Klingons ["Trials and Tribble-lations" (DS9), "Affliction," "Divergence" (ENT)], the nature of the Tholians ["Future Tense" (ENT), "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part I" (ENT)], the fate of the Defiant, the real reason for the spatial interphase, and the correct Defiant mission patch ["In a Mirror, Darkly, Parts I and II" (ENT)], etc.)

...Seven years after "Charlie X" aired is "the same era"?

Yeah, TAS was written as a continuation of TOS, it had a lot of the same creative minds behind it (the documentary interviews people who worked on TAS; they consistently described it as being approached as TOS season four, not an animated adaptation), and used the same visual style (with the addition of more alien designs for the aliens and alien tech). So, yeah, same era in terms of setting, production, and intent of the creators.

 

[WebLurker]

Double Post. Sorry

 

[JonnyQuest037]

By this logic, my 11-year old nieces should be starting college this fall. After all, 18 is pretty much the same as 11, right?

 

[Warped9]

Anything in TOS-R is patent retconning based on what those in charge thought it would be cool to put into the show. It doesn't reflect going back and trying to work out what the TOS creators--particularly Matt Jefferies--might have actually done given the opportunity under the best of circumstances of the 1960s.

A perfect example. TOS-R used a space station design based on something done decades after the fact despite the fact that conceptual sketches by MJ for a large station existed before they opted for the K7 design.

Now the design TOS-R used is actually nice and has a nice TOS like aesthetic to it, but it was still done decades after the fact while an actual concept sketched out by MJ existed and yet was passed over.

 

[WebLurker]

By this logic, my 11-year old nieces should be starting college this fall. After all, 18 is pretty much the same as 11, right?

No, we're talking TV production, not people. Besides, by your reasoning, stuff they were producing for TNG season seven was from a completely different set of stuff then TNG season one was.

Anything in TOS-R is patent retconning based on what those in charge thought it would be cool to put into the show. It doesn't reflect going back and trying to work out what the TOS creators--particularly Matt Jefferies--might have actually done given the opportunity under the best of circumstances of the 1960s.

Sometimes, but a lot of the CGI updates were just the same visuals re-rendered or new stuff created in the style of the old (and a lot of those were fixing continuity errors from the recycling of old ship models). This website (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/tos_ships.htm) has a breakdown of the ship-based changes. TOS-R was surprisingly faithful to the set-up of the originals.

 

[Warped9]

No, we're talking TV production, not people. Besides, by your reasoning, stuff they were producing for TNG season seven was from a completely different set of stuff then TNG season one was.



Sometimes, but a lot of the CGI updates were just the same visuals re-rendered or new stuff created in the style of the old (and a lot of those were fixing continuity errors from the recycling of old ship models). This website (http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/tos_ships.htm) has a breakdown of the ship-based changes. TOS-R was surprisingly faithful to the set-up of the originals.

 

[WebLurker]

You've made you mind up on this already, haven't you?