Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND

[fireproof78]

Spoiler: Enterprise Orthos

.... but looking at the screencap, it does show a difference in the new angle of the pylons. I don't think its all down to lens distortion to be in both shots. It doesn't take much to angle the pylons as the above ortho shows. I do think its odd if they did make the change just before blowing her up.

Can't wait to see more! I love the way this ship looks

Also, Ryan Church is a hack...oh wait, he's only been a part of some of the largest franchises in the last decade, as well as a career in video game art departments. Never mind, I'll keep him

 

[jamestyler]

A bad design is a bad design.

And if this were a bad design, you'd have a fair point. But considering it hits every mark it needs to, has impressive detailing, original thought instead of being a direct copy of a 50 year old design and every point that the director asked for was added and tweaked very, very nicely - the point is valid.

Don't like it? Fair point. But to say it's a bad design is ridiculous.

 

[Franklin]

The Edsel was a bad design. The DeLorean was a bad design. The Enterprise is just a revision some people don't like as much as previous versions. However, the essential design has been the same for fifty years. To me, it's the most iconic space ship in science fiction (in any version). Think "starship" and how can the Enterprise not be the first thing to come to mind? That comes from having a timelessly pleasing aesthetic design, in my opinion.

 

[JWPlatt]

Is anybody else going to binge/marathon the previous 12 movies before Beyond is out? Since I plan on being in a theater seat at midnight on July 22nd I'll be starting with TMP on July 10th and watching a movie each day so that I'll have watched Into Darkness right before heading to see Beyond. I figure it's not every day a new Trek movie comes out so why not celebrate the days leading up to it?

The average human gets 2.21 billion heartbeats in a lifetime. Let's say each movie is roughly two hours. At a resting pace of 60 bpm for a healthy person (although not necessarily true for Trekkie couch potatoes), that's 86,400 spent watching things we might already have seen 10 times. Looking at it that way, is a binge watch really worth giving a slice of our life?

...original thought instead of being a direct copy of a 50 year old design...

"New and improved" can often be a unique point of view when it isn't all that.

The Edsel was a bad design.

Not necessarily. It was really only from the point of view that it was the wrong design - not poor design - to get people to want one. It's like making a geeky movie that is well done technically, but without a compelling story that sells. It sounds like you just picked something people like to laugh at without really knowing the history.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Sit Long and Prosper

Or rather: Sit long and Prep H.

 

[BillJ]

I wonder if people that dislike the Enterprise-D would make the statement that Andrew Probert should never work in the business again?

 

[M'Sharak]

I wonder if people that dislike the Enterprise-D would make the statement that Andrew Probert should never work in the business again?

I certainly wouldn't.

While I may not care much for that particular design, I can't see any reason why he shouldn't have had as much other work as he had time, energy and the willingness to do. The idea of punishing someone for a single design I happen to personally dislike is a ridiculous and petty notion.

 

[Ovation]

I certainly wouldn't.

While I may not care much for that particular design, I can't see any reason why he shouldn't have had as much other work as he had time, energy and the willingness to do. The idea of punishing someone for a single design I happen to personally dislike is a ridiculous and petty notion.

I wonder why anyone would do such a thing.

 

[Franklin]

Not necessarily. It was really only from the point of view that it was the wrong design - not poor design - to get people to want one. It's like making a geeky movie that is well done technically, but without a compelling story that sells. It sounds like you just picked something people like to laugh at without really knowing the history.

Eh. The Edsel was a gas-guzzler even for its time. That's poor design right there. The interior was OK.

I wonder if people that dislike the Enterprise-D would make the statement that Andrew Probert should never work in the business again?

Enterprise-D grew on me over time until I really started liking it. It was just so different at first.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

A bad design is a bad design. I don't know who is doing production-design work for Beyond but the guy from the other two films should never work in this business again.

Normally pointing that out would be redundant, but you seem to have confused your opinion on the Enterprise's "bad design" for a self-reinforcing fact.

Besides, holding the production designer responsible when he or she is at the whim of the producers and director is stupid. They are either given a specific direction in which to go or told to mock up several designs for the producers to choose from and ask for refinements to. Either way, even if their design survives mostly unchanged, the final decision on what goes from concept art to screen is not theirs, especially with something like the nuEnterprise where you already have the existing Enterprise designs you have to take into account as well.

And your argument from ignorance about the production designers aside, Ryan Church is extremely talented and doing quite well for himself, so he thanks you for your support.

The average human gets 2.21 billion heartbeats in a lifetime. Let's say each movie is roughly two hours. At a resting pace of 60 bpm for a healthy person (although not necessarily true for Trekkie couch potatoes), that's 86,400 spent watching things we might already have seen 10 times. Looking at it that way, is a binge watch really worth giving a slice of our life?

More so than making tedious and condescending calculations on a message board.

 

[Malaika]

This interview by Karl Urban

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainmen...ks-Star-Trek-Beyond-as-thoughts-turn-to-Taika

"There definitely was a bit of a backlash from the audience and, quite frankly, I agreed with them,"

---

Uhm so, ok. Both him and Pegg were all praises for the previous team and JJ, they always said no one knew trek better than Orci etc etc but NOW that we have a new team, now suddenly they all have issues with stid (even JJ himself)
I hate that kind of thing. I think it's bad taste. You either are honest since the start and have the guts to be coherent with yourself from the beginning, or if you cannot then don't praise someone only to stab their back when they are not around anymore. It's just SO easy for anyone to now complain they had issues with the other movies. Would be funny if for trek 4 we get JJ back as a director and one of the other writers in the team again. Bet they will suddenly, then, have issues with amazing Lin too.

Also, I love Karl I really do but does he even GET that the reboot is another reality and not a greatest hits of tos? and honestly I keep reading all this talk about trek, getting trek etc etc and I could care less because I'm here for a sequel of THIS trek, and they never talk about it being a sequel.
All this respect for the old trek fans and trying to please the purists who don't like the reboot for not being a carbon copy of tos (and who quite frankly won't like the reboot regardless), but where is the respect for the fans of this trek too?
I'm like..you keep wanting to force old stuff in the new for the sake of paying homage and faoboy nostalgia and I get it, but at the same time the reboot now IS canon too and the continuation of what was established in this reboot is also something people want to see.
There are people who love the old dynamics from tos and want to see them 'respected' but there are also reboot fans who like the dynamics and character development of THIS trek and new canon, and they maybe deserve some consideration too since they are the ones who payed to watch these movies and it's the critics that 'wasted' their time in praising and appreciating the efforts made by the other team to give us something new and a new, plus, trek to like.

 

[F. King Daniel]

In context, here it is with the previous line:

The Wellington-born actor, who turns 44 this week, says he shares many fans' view that 2013's Star Trek: Into Darkness saw his character Dr Leonard "Bones" McCoy marginalised from the action.

"There definitely was a bit of a backlash from the audience and, quite frankly, I agreed with them," the Kiwi star says down the phoneline from Los Angeles, as he prepares for a promotional whirlwind over the next month in the lead up to the July 21 release of Star Trek: Beyond.

I loved Into Darkness, but I think it's fair to say McCoy's role was noticeably smaller than in the '09 Star Trek. I think it's cool he's getting a more substantial part in Star Trek Beyond.

 

[jamestyler]

I loved Into Darkness, but I think it's fair to say McCoy's role was noticeably smaller than in the '09 Star Trek. I think it's cool he's getting a more substantial part in Star Trek Beyond.

I wouldn't say it was that big a role in 2009 either.

The core purpose of his role in terms of plot is to buddy up with Kirk and create a loophole for Kirk to get onto the Enterprise. The follow up scene to that ("stop it!") could have been dropped easily, and the rest of the role was being the cynical one (which Uhura takes a role in as well) and some shots of sickbay and the vulcans (which could have been a generic extras scene).

Strangely I'd say - while Into Darkness didn't give him much of a spotlight - it did at least showcase his actual role more. He did the Doctory things instead of just commenting from the sidelines.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It wasn't a huge role, but we got some backstory, that he was divorced and joined Starfleet because he's got nowhere else to go, and got to see how loyal he is to his friends. We see him find a new life. In ID, what do we learn about McCoy that we didn't know before? How's he grown?

 

[Malaika]

ok but honestly, what he expected?
The first movies are a Kirk/Spock show and while I know a lot of people are fond of the original 'trinity' I think some need to reconcile a bit with the fact that:
1) it always was the Kirk/Spock show even in the old thing. If Karl believes McCoy was considered an equal protagonist with the main dudes and he's disappointed he wasn't in the reboot, I dunno what to say when Nimoy (NIMOY) himself had to essentially fight a bit to get HIS character get considered as more an equal protagonist with Kirk than just the nerdy friend of hero.
2) his character was more prominent than others because he was Kirk's buddy with banter with the other Kirk's buddy. That stays consistent in the reboot, IMO. In terms of his role on the ship, in order to put him in the main action on the bridge you have to constantly keep him away from sickbay and thus his job and where he can show his skills (same can be said about Scotty) In terms of 'action hero' he never was one either. Those who think Uhura 'replaced' him in the scene with the klingons are disingenuous because, if anything, her skills there were the only ones 'required' and that made sense in the mission. Even Kirk and Spock were kind of more replaceable and less required than her. It figures Mccoy.
3) we need to stop pretending that trek being a 'sausage fest' wasn't cultural too. That show was made in the 60s, let's admit this fact and move on.. Our time isn't perfection but I have no doubt that we're at a point where having a story about 3 men and no female voice is not considered a brilliant idea even by the most sexist producers.
4) no talk about old trek really matters because this is a reboot set in an alternate reality, anyway. The dynamics don't have to be the same. The characters don't have to have the same exact symbolic 'roles' (I hate this trope so-damn-much).
As much as some complain that Uhura 'replaced' McCoy these people fail to understand that the context of these movies is different and, if anything, it's KIRK who was changed in a way (and so his dynamic with Spock) that HE sorta replaced McCoy making his 'role' redundant (but it's also made redundant by the fact that Spock himself is not one dimensional and he's allowed to be a more balanced portrayal of a mixed child. E.g., he never denies being human and having feelings). But the point is these characters don't have 'roles' they are not symbolic. They don't have to be. This is not how stories are told anymore. I wish Urban would stop a tiny bit (just a tiny bit!) to try to be Deforest to bring back the same exact character from the old thing (and thus expect him to have the same role) and he started to, well, try to show us what kind of new role his McCoy can have in THIS story. Not the old thing. Not a role, but really what kind of contribution to the plot he can make without having to be the same exact thing from the old thing. What new layers we can add to this character, what makes him a different version of the other.

as for the creative team, unpopular opinion here but I honestly think JJ not being a trek fan was - actually - a good thing.

 

[RAMA]

A bad design is a bad design. I don't know who is doing production-design work for Beyond but the guy from the other two films should never work in this business again.

You do know the 2009 AND 2012 movies were nominated for The Art Director's Guild Excellence in Production Design Awards?? ST09 and the Enterprise won the SET Excellence in the Portrayal of Science, Engineering, and Technology Award. Church and Chambliss have worked on the biggest blockbusters in the business and will never be hurting for work. I won't be hiring you to pick my production designer anytime soon.

RAMA

 

[KennyB]

A bad design is a bad design. I don't know who is doing production-design work for Beyond but the guy from the other two films should never work in this business again.

In your opinion............

 

[Locutus of Bored]

This interview by Karl Urban

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainmen...ks-Star-Trek-Beyond-as-thoughts-turn-to-Taika

"There definitely was a bit of a backlash from the audience and, quite frankly, I agreed with them,"

---

Uhm so, ok. Both him and Pegg were all praises for the previous team and JJ, they always said no one knew trek better than Orci etc etc but NOW that we have a new team, now suddenly they all have issues with stid (even JJ himself)
I hate that kind of thing. I think it's bad taste. You either are honest since the start and have the guts to be coherent with yourself from the beginning, or if you cannot then don't praise someone only to stab their back when they are not around anymore. It's just SO easy for anyone to now complain they had issues with the other movies. Would be funny if for trek 4 we get JJ back as a director and one of the other writers in the team again. Bet they will suddenly, then, have issues with amazing Lin too.

Also, I love Karl I really do but does he even GET that the reboot is another reality and not a greatest hits of tos? and honestly I keep reading all this talk about trek, getting trek etc etc and I could care less because I'm here for a sequel of THIS trek, and they never talk about it being a sequel.
All this respect for the old trek fans and trying to please the purists who don't like the reboot for not being a carbon copy of tos (and who quite frankly won't like the reboot regardless), but where is the respect for the fans of this trek too?
I'm like..you keep wanting to force old stuff in the new for the sake of paying homage and faoboy nostalgia and I get it, but at the same time the reboot now IS canon too and the continuation of what was established in this reboot is also something people want to see.
There are people who love the old dynamics from tos and want to see them 'respected' but there are also reboot fans who like the dynamics and character development of THIS trek and new canon, and they maybe deserve some consideration too since they are the ones who payed to watch these movies and it's the critics that 'wasted' their time in praising and appreciating the efforts made by the other team to give us something new and a new, plus, trek to like.

You can be "all praises" for the previous production team and still be a bit disappointed with how the film or your role turned out. The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's not like Abrams or Orci intentionally slighted him and they're all bitter enemies now.

Nor is it hypocritical to be all praises before the film comes out and then in retrospect, as you've read the opinions of others or reconsidered things on your own, change your mind. That's actually pretty normal and healthy behavior. Expecting someone to rigidly hold the same opinion forever regardless of any changing circumstances or better arguments is the odd thing.

Also, your job as an actor before the film is released is to promote the film, not go around complaining about it, so even if he did harbor some misgivings, it would be both unprofessional and bad for your career to go around saying negative things about it beforehand. After it's out of theaters and on home video and been sold to Pay-Per-View/Netflix/online/networks and cable, etc. you have a bit more freedom to complain if you want to.

Orci is still listed as a producer on Beyond and is able to give input, though that's mostly in recognition of his early contributions to the prior script and production when he was slated to be director rather than any indication of significant current involvement. Plus, he's still a frequent collaborator with Bad Robot/Abrams and a friend of Abrams, so it's not like he's totally gone and can't tell Urban to chill (or get the bosses to do it) if he's got a problem with what he's saying. And Abrams is still the EP and head of Bad Robot, so he's definitely got input on the matter, even though he's working on Star Wars. Producers, directors, and writers are often far more critical of their own work than even a lot of fans can be, so they might not even disagree with his criticism.

 

[Malaika]

You can be "all praises" for the previous production team and still be a bit disappointed with how the film or your role turned out. The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's not like Abrams or Orci intentionally slighted him and they're all bitter enemies now.

yes, but if you are coherent with yourself you voice that when it counts and when you are still working with that team (or you don't say anything so the future when you complain you are not contradicting anything), not when they leave and it's more 'safe' for you to complain.

Nor is it hypocritical to be all praises before the film comes out and then in retrospect, as you've read the opinions of others or reconsidered things on your own, change your mind. That's actually pretty normal and healthy behavior. Expecting someone to rigidly hold the same opinion forever regardless of any changing circumstances or better arguments is the odd thing.

changing your opinion is human. Changing it only when the people you were 'praising' are not in power anymore is a tad too convenient as a coincidence, in my opinion. THAT is very similar to the thing called 'hypocrisy', in my humble opinion.

The passive aggressive way the new team is criticizing the one that came before them is bad taste IMO

I'm not saying people are not allowed to have opinions. Nope. I have a lot of respect for those who are coherent with themselves and their opinions since the start and they don't give a damn about how polite they should sound or not. But praising a thing one time and then conveniently spit in the plate where you ate from ONLY when you feel like it's more safe for you to express your opinion is a nono for me.

Also, your job as an actor before the film is released is to promote the film, not go around complaining about it

you said it. Basically they are not honest because they need to promote the movie they are in.
Fair enough, but then who is to say, then, that they are not doing the same thing NOW?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

yes, but if you are coherent with yourself you voice that when it counts and when you are still working with that team (or you don't say anything so the future when you complain you are not contradicting anything), not when they leave and it's more 'safe' for you to complain.

changing your opinion is human. Changing it only when the people you were 'praising' are not in power anymore is a tad too convenient as a coincidence, in my opinion. THAT is very similar to the thing called 'hypocrisy', in my humble opinion.

The passive aggressive way the new team is criticizing the one that came before them is bad taste IMO

I'm not saying people are not allowed to have opinions. Nope. I have a lot of respect for those who are coherent with themselves and their opinions since the start and they don't give a damn about how polite they should sound or not. But praising a thing one time and then conveniently spit in the plate where you ate from ONLY when you feel like it's more safe for you to express your opinion is a nono for me.

you said it. Basically they are not honest because they need to promote the movie they are in.
Fair enough, but then who is to say, then, that they are not doing the same thing NOW?

They're not politicians making life changing or life threatening decisions for millions of people, they're actors and staff in a fictional movie and TV franchise. Why are you holding them to similar standards of consistency? Your expectations for their behavior and insults towards them are unfair and unreasonable.

And again, why are you completely dismissing the possibility that he might have genuinely changed his mind a bit over the past 7-8 years since he was promoting ST09 or 3-4 years since STID?

Despite working on Star Wars, JJ Abrams is still very much "in power" there as EP on the film and owner of Bad Robot, and Orci, while not around, is still listed as producer and is friends/collaborators with Abrams. You keep acting as if they got exiled to The Phantom Zone and can't say something if they think Urban is speaking out of turn. Obviously Urban didn't think his (frankly quite mild) comments would get him in any hot water with them, and I think you're blowing what he said completely out of proportion. This is pretty standard post-film actor talk about how they'd wished they'd gotten more character development.

It's entirely possible Urban is saying nice(r) things now to promote the film and might say something different or change his mind later. However, I merely presented that as one possibility, not the one and only explanation, so don't alter what I'm saying into something like "You said they were all dirty rotten liars to promote the films!" It's usually pretty easy to spot when actors don't like the film they're in while out on the promotional circuit, because they'll be restrained and not as effusive with praise as they'd normally be.