I think that may be Kirk's stubborn streak. He didn't get through to the father, he 'didn't expect silence', and that was such a blow that he was unable to let it go.
STC Ep. 6: "Come Not Between The Dragons" grading and discussion....(possible spoilers)
- Thread starter Warped9
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I think that may be Kirk's stubborn streak. He didn't get through to the father, he 'didn't expect silence', and that was such a blow that he was unable to let it go.
Are you kidding? Are we talking about the same Kirk that flew his ship into the Barrier after finding out it destroyed the last ship that tried it? The one who let the superman who tried to take over his ship off the hook just so that same superman could take over somebody else's ship and threaten the galaxy twenty years later? The one who told a robot probe that he wasn't its creator knowing that the only thing keeping the probe from destroying the ship was the mistaken idea that he was the creator?
James T. Kirk was famous for many things. Rational thought isn't one of them...
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Well, he was under orders exploring the Barrier; he didn't have reason to think Khan would turn into a bloodthirsty revenge maniac; and he was implementing a plan to destroy Nomad with no other weapon than rational thought itself. But still, point taken....
Just want to point out that "Meant to hurt" is a great ambiguous phrase in the spirit of "No Kill I." 
For a crew that is supposed to "seek out new life and new civilizations," throwing something heavy at an alien two minutes after you meet it seems a bit counter-productive... don't they screen these crew-people? 
...and for a series that is fairly obsessively trying to re-create the "vibe" of TOS, why are they suddenly using the "all male address" system that Nick Meyer introduced in ST:WOK? In other words, referring to female officers as "sir," etc. That really pinged in my ears, since TOS never did any such thing. Have they done this before, and I've been too wrapped up in myself to notice?
...and for a series that is fairly obsessively trying to re-create the "vibe" of TOS, why are they suddenly using the "all male address" system that Nick Meyer introduced in ST:WOK? In other words, referring to female officers as "sir," etc. That really pinged in my ears, since TOS never did any such thing. Have they done this before, and I've been too wrapped up in myself to notice?
To be fair though TOS never really had a scene with a woman in command giving orders and getting a response like "Aye Aye Ma'am" <-- so that particular etiquette hadn't been established until STII:TWoK - and since it was I assume the STC production is postulating it was ALWAYS that way in Star Fleet.For a crew that is supposed to "seek out new life and new civilizations," throwing something heavy at an alien two minutes after you meet it seems a bit counter-productive... don't they screen these crew-people?
...and for a series that is fairly obsessively trying to re-create the "vibe" of TOS, why are they suddenly using the "all male address" system that Nick Meyer introduced in ST:WOK? In other words, referring to female officers as "sir," etc. That really pinged in my ears, since TOS never did any such thing. Have they done this before, and I've been too wrapped up in myself to notice?
Personally, I didn't care for it in TWoK, nor when it was continued in TNG - but as it was established and official productions went with it, I can't fault STC for maintaining it.
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It's not a mystery at all. Those that did TOS-R only had dollar signs in their eyes while not caring much about artistic and stylistic integrity. And the ones who advised restraint apparently weren't listened to much.
But from the beginning Vic Mignogna has said he wants STC to be as much like TOS as possible while sometimes doing things that could have been done but weren't because of restrictions. Inserting visual f/x that couldn't possibly have been done during TOS would go against the very sensibility that Vic Mignogna asserts he wants to maintain for STC.
Mr. Saavik really bothered the sh*t out of me, I thought that was a Vulcan thing. Did that crap continue through V'Ger, I don't remember?
eta-
Just checked a couple of VOY transcripts, Janeway is addressed as Ma'am,. tg.
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Dam it man !! now I am bricklayer!
But Vic Mignogna isn't God. He is, however, this show's creator, and it's entirely up to him if he wants to include shots that go against his stated goal if he thinks those shots would improve the look of the episode. That doesn't make him the first EP who ever contradicted himself (GR contradicted himself constantly) and he won't be the last.
So far he has allowed little in the way of visual f/x that couldn't have been done in some fashion during the 1960s. I can think of maybe two or three minor instances, and someone more knowledgeable of 1960's special effects resources and methods could prove me wrong.
In regard to keeping the look of the f/x shots aesthetically consistent with the live-action footage STC is far far more on the mark than TOS-R. Doug Drexler's Enterprise model and how it's filmed is distinctly better than the cartoon version used in TOS-R.
Overall STC is what TOS-R should have looked like.
But I'm still not seeing why it matters if there are some shots that don't fit that mold. If it's only because it goes against what he stated he'd do
. I have no contract with him and I'm not paying for the shows so I'm not going to lose sleep over him including shots that could only be done in 2016. Again, it's 2016.
I would tend to agree, I don't really see much point in such slavish devotion to the "vibe" of the era, but as I say, it's Vic's playground, so he can do whatever he wants. I don't much care about the style of the presentation, I just want good stories set in this universe.
But this is an old argument/discussion I realize.
But this is an old argument/discussion I realize.
I honestly don't see the difference between saying "The zoom-through-the-hull shot COULD have been done in 1969 -- IF the show had had a bigger budget" is any different from "the show could not have done that shot in 1969." If you're going to count those rivets, then isn't doing an effect that was beyond Trek's budget just as big a cheat?
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It matters if one wants the STC episodes to feel like a genuine extension of TOS. If you insert all kinds of f/x that were impossible back in the day then you lose that sense of genuine continuity. You can no longer suspend your disbelief that this was made in 1969/70.But I'm still not seeing why it matters if there are some shots that don't fit that mold. If it's only because it goes against what he stated he'd do
It obviously matters to Vic Mignogna and Doug Drexler and the rest of the production crew. In extent it also matters to many fans for who TOS is their favourite Trek series and enjoy episodes that look, sound and feel very much like the originals made fifty years ago.
If one doesn't give a shit about such things that's fine, but they shouldn't deride people who do care about such things.
For the record if STC did the sort of impossible f/x I've seen in other fanfilms a great of STC's appeal would be gone for me. I respect that they make the effort to respect the original series in most ways. I, for one, cannot watch TOS-R even though TOS is my all-time favourite television series. I can't watch it because the way they "enhanced" and "fixed" the f/x is generally lousy and doesn't match the remaining live-action footage. They also sacrificed many iconic shots and inserted a bunch of stupid things merely for the sake of change.
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Interesting. It never bothered me one bit, since I figured calling her "Mister" was implying she was one of "THEM". She's an equal and didn't require to be identified as a woman... since she IS ONE.
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I'm not sure if these statements are true. Coon is dead, Roddenberry is dead, and I don't think there's a document where either of them claimed they wanted the FX to remain the same for all eternity. The studio owned the property and they made a decision to remaster them for a new audience, like me, and I'm glad it's done. Star Trek is timeless, but those state of art FX from the 60's are not, and the series needed a well deserved facelift.
For all the brilliant production work Vic's team has done, I think the one thing which is a complete let down for me is the SFX. I don't think it's what the Desilu production would do if they were doing it today, nor do I believe they would do it to make Star Trek less grandeur. It's the one thing Phase II, or sometimes called New Voyages, has that is paramount over STC; the effects has to look like STAR TREK.
Exeter's The Tressaurian Intersection's special effects team did their homework by embodying FX shots which would be a nod to what the Desilu team would do, and it's fun and doesn't stand out. Drexler's work appear to be reshots from the same compositing over and over and over again. It's nothing like what Desilu would do if the budget didn't constrain them. CBS did a masterful job with Star Trek in my opinion and I'd rather watch those remastered CBS' SFX any day than watching those STC FX.
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