JJ-Trek/ IDW Continuity and Discontinuities

[Jsplinis]

Please forgive me if this has been discussed before, but I was wondering how many ways the JJ-Trek film have referenced or shown continuity with the IDW JJ-Trek comics.

I know that Countdown gave a background to Nero and Spock before Star Trek '09 came out as well as showing the circumstances surrounding the destruction of Romulus. These elements are shown in the movie but fleshed out more in the comic.

Also if I remember correctly, doesn't Countdown Into Darkess show the circumstances for Mudd's ship being on the Entrrprise in Star Trek Into Darkness?

In what other ways have the movies been consistent with what came before them in comics?

Also, in what ways have they been inconsistent?

Wasn't it stated that Sulu had never been left in command before in Into Darkess even though the comics had shown him in command before that?

Also, didn't the comic series have casualties under Kirk's command even though he says he never lost anyone in Into Darkness?

What other inconsistencies are there?

I know the comics aren't canon and that continuity with the comics is not required of the film makers. I'm just curious of how successful IDW has been at being in continuity with the films, especially considering their use of Orci as a story consultant.

 

[Christopher]

I don't think Countdown's Spock/Nero backstory is quite consistent with the film, because Spock Prime's narration ("He called himself Nero") implies that he'd never met Nero before the black hole incident. And when the screenwriters of STID mentioned "the Mudd incident," I profoundly doubt they had a young half-Bajoran woman named Mudd in mind.

 

[The Wormhole]

The only sense of continuity first laid down in the comics I can think of:
-The phaser rifles in STID are the same design as the ones seen in the comics.
-The comics establish Cupcake's name is Hendorf, which is what he's called in STID.
-The comics introduced a cabal of shady Starfleet officers which got retconned as Section 31 in comics after STID's release.

As for inconsistencies, the huge one not yet mentioned is the After Darkness story claims the Enterprise was repaired and returned to service two weeks after the events of STID, even though the final scene of STID is a whole year after everything else.

Also, every time someone from the Prime Universe is featured in the comic, they're drawn in the likeness of the original actor, despite the fact Spock Prime could recognise everyone in Trek XI implying they should look the same. Also, the first script for Trek XIII that was written by Orci was rumoured to feature Shatner playing an older version of Chris Pine's Kirk, making this a very weird thing for Orci to allow in the comics.

 

[Christopher]

The only sense of continuity first laid down in the comics I can think of:
-The phaser rifles in STID are the same design as the ones seen in the comics.
-The comics establish Cupcake's name is Hendorf, which is what he's called in STID.

Not sure about the first, but the second is no doubt something that originated in the movie script and appeared in the comics first because the lead time on movies is so much greater. It's the same reason Marvel's Agents of SHIELD can appear to set up events from Marvel movies -- because the movies are written as much as two years ahead of their release, while comics or TV episodes take only months to put out. So a comic or TV episode can appear to "introduce" an idea that it actually got from the movie script.

As for inconsistencies, the huge one not yet mentioned is the After Darkness story claims the Enterprise was repaired and returned to service two weeks after the events of STID, even though the final scene of STID is a whole year after everything else.

I believe that's because the line establishing that one-year jump was added late in post-production, so the makers of the comics couldn't have known about it (by contrast with the stuff from the original script).

Also, every time someone from the Prime Universe is featured in the comic, they're drawn in the likeness of the original actor, despite the fact Spock Prime could recognise everyone in Trek XI implying they should look the same. Also, the first script for Trek XIII that was written by Orci was rumoured to feature Shatner playing an older version of Chris Pine's Kirk, making this a very weird thing for Orci to allow in the comics.

I'm not sure it was his place to "allow" anything. His title was "creative consultant," which usually means someone who gets to review and comment on the work but doesn't have any direct control over it. The publicity has always made a big deal of his involvement in the comics, but given how... idiosyncratic some of Mike Johnson's interpretations of ideas from the film tend to be, I doubt Orci ever really supervised the comics all that closely.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Off the bat I want to point out the idiotic continuity glitch the IDW comics made in the "The Return of the Archons" arc. They portrayed Beta III's inhabitants as the descendants of a human Starfleet crew and Landru as a human scientist despite the original canon episode showing that Landru and the Betans were the planet's native species!

But besides that, the IDW comics have generally portrayed Klingons with STID style head ridges. Though of course in "The Q Gambit" arc, Worf and impostor Kurn matched their original portrayal. And thus far all Romulans have smooth foreheads per TOS and the 2009 movie.

The "After Darkness" arc introduced Klingon ships upgraded with tech from the Narada. And then in "The Khitomer Conflict" arc the pseudo-Naradas go up against Romulan ships (which look like predecessors of the D'Deridex class) which are armed with Vengeance style cannons and Khan-designed torpedoes.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

As for inconsistencies, the huge one not yet mentioned is the After Darkness story claims the Enterprise was repaired and returned to service two weeks after the events of STID, even though the final scene of STID is a whole year after everything else.

I'd totally forgotten that, as I've only seen STID once.

Also, every time someone from the Prime Universe is featured in the comic, they're drawn in the likeness of the original actor, despite the fact Spock Prime could recognise everyone in Trek XI implying they should look the same.

This complaint makes no sense. If the characters haven't been featured in the new movies yet, how would we know who they were supposed to be unless they were drawn to resemble the original actor?

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

This complaint makes no sense. If the characters haven't been featured in the new movies yet, how would we know who they were supposed to be unless they were drawn to resemble the original actor?

I think the Wormhole is talking about the TOS characters; not Picard, Q, Sisko, etc.

 

[Markonian]

Off the bat I want to point out the idiotic continuity glitch the IDW comics made in the "The Return of the Archons" arc. They portrayed Beta III's inhabitants as the descendants of a human Starfleet crew and Landru as a human scientist despite the original canon episode showing that Landru and the Betans were the planet's native species!

But is it really a glitch? I found it an awesome new angle to the source material. It even doesn't really clash with SCE: Foundations. There, everyone says it's a 6k year old computer, but nobody backs it up. The problem would be why nobody takes in issue with the Betans speaking English. Maybe they only retained the language in the alternate reality?

As for the design of the Archon: Either the Betan rebel really only knows "pieces of the truth", or the Daedalus-class ship was replaced at some point.

 

[Christopher]

Off the bat I want to point out the idiotic continuity glitch the IDW comics made in the "The Return of the Archons" arc. They portrayed Beta III's inhabitants as the descendants of a human Starfleet crew and Landru as a human scientist despite the original canon episode showing that Landru and the Betans were the planet's native species!

The comic was really trying to feel its way with the "retold TOS episodes" premise. The first two storylines were way too slavish to the original episodes and were thus rather uninteresting, then this one was way too divergent and just didn't seem to fit the branched-timeline premise. Only afterward did they settle into a more successful balance of the familiar and the new. (Although they never have justified why so many of the same events are happening 8-10 years earlier than they did in Prime.)

Oh, and speaking of timing, the "Five-Year Mission" issues seem to have overcorrected following the After Darkness timeline problem. STID was set in 2259 and had the 5YM start a year later in 2260, but the comics set in the early months of the 5YM give the year as 2261.

But besides that, the IDW comics have generally portrayed Klingons with STID style head ridges. Though of course in "The Q Gambit" arc, Worf and impostor Kurn matched their original portrayal.

A far cry from the post-TWOK DC comics that portrayed Koloth and Kor as TMP-style ridged Klingons.

But is it really a glitch? I found it an awesome new angle to the source material. It even doesn't really clash with SCE: Foundations. There, everyone says it's a 6k year old computer, but nobody backs it up.

But the comic showed the starship being in the same huge underground chamber as the Landru computer. There's no way the team that stayed behind on Beta III in "Archons"/Foundations could've missed that for long. Not to mention that the archaeological evidence would've made it easy to distinguish between a civilization that had existed on the planet for far more than 6,000 years and one that had settled within the past 100 years; if nothing else, the latter would have a far, far tinier population and have left far less of a footprint on the planet. Not to mention that a medical and genetic examination could've distinguished between humanoid natives and human colonists with equal ease. There is simply no way that the team from Foundations could've been fooled into thinking a 100-year-old human colony was an ancient indigenous civilization.

 

[Extrocomp]

^ It's worth mentioning that Spock describes the Beta III inhabitants as "human" in the original episode.

 

[Christopher]

^ It's worth mentioning that Spock describes the Beta III inhabitants as "human" in the original episode.

So do Kirk and Lindstrom. But it would hardly be the first time that a work of older science fiction used "human" interchangeably with "humanoid alien." The same was done in "Miri," "The Alternative Factor," arguably "A Taste of Armageddon" (since Kirk seems to be including the Eminians when he says "We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it"), maybe "Errand of Mercy" (where Kor says a post-mind sifter victim is "more vegetable than human," even though it presumably hasn't been used on many Earth humans yet), implicitly "Wolf in the Fold" (since Spock's statement that the killer is "not human" is meant to exclude Argelians as well), and "The Apple" ("The good doctor was concerned that the Vaalians achieve true human stature").

It's an old trope going back to previous centuries, really -- European explorers had found human populations on every continent they visited, so a lot of early SF writers, like Jules Verne, just took it for granted that there would be varieties of human on other planets as well, that we were an inevitable product of evolution (or divine creation). So plenty of SF from the pulp era and later used "human" to refer to what we would now call humanoid aliens, without intending to imply that their ancestors had originated on Earth. It was implicitly understood to be a parallel evolution, the kneejerk assumption that all planets would recapitulate Earth's development. And indeed that parallel-evolution idea was deliberately built into the TOS premise as a money-saving move to justify Earth-duplicate cultures on other worlds. So we did get occasional episodes where "human" was used to mean "alien without any significant differences from the human form."

 

[Therin of Andor]

Landru and the Betans were the planet's native species!

Who just happened to use 12-hour time on clocks (with numerals?) identical to Earth clocks. So I was never convinced the Betans were really a native species.

 

[The Wormhole]

This complaint makes no sense. If the characters haven't been featured in the new movies yet, how would we know who they were supposed to be unless they were drawn to resemble the original actor?

But what about the characters who have already been in the movies? Why does the Mirrored storyline briefly show McCoy and Scotty drawn in Kelly and Doohan's likeness? Or the Parallel Lives comic featuring Kirk drawn in Shatner's likeness? Or the upcoming finale which will feature the entire Prime Universe TOS gang drawn to resemble the original actors? How does Spock Prime instantly recognize everyone if there is indeed a difference in how they look in the two universes, as the comics seem to overwhelmingly suggest?

 

[DimesDan]

But what about the characters who have already been in the movies? Why does the Mirrored storyline briefly show McCoy and Scotty drawn in Kelly and Doohan's likeness? Or the Parallel Lives comic featuring Kirk drawn in Shatner's likeness? Or the upcoming finale which will feature the entre Prime Universe TOS gang drawn to resemble the original actors? How does Spock Prime instantly recognize everyone if there is indeed a difference in how they look in the two universes, as the comics seem to overwhelmingly suggest?

Because we the reader are used to seeing them a certain way and the people at IDW took the artistic decision to draw them how we know them as.

 

[Christopher]

Who just happened to use 12-hour time on clocks (with numerals?) identical to Earth clocks. So I was never convinced the Betans were really a native species.

It was meant to be just another parallel Earth like Miri's planet, 892-IV, Omega IV, etc. The parallels just weren't the center of attention.

After all, note the clothing styles that were used. The original landing party is wearing clothing consistent with the 18th century, which is what the Archon crew reported them wearing a century before. In the present, they're wearing clothing consistent with the 19th century. The underlying assumption was that the planet's development was paralleling Earth's in many respects.

And of course that's the main reason the comic's interpretation doesn't work. How could the Archon crew have reported the 18th-century fashions to Starfleet if the planetary civilization didn't even exist yet when they went there?

But what about the characters who have already been in the movies? Why does the Mirrored storyline briefly show McCoy and Scotty drawn in Kelly and Doohan's likeness? Or the Parallel Lives comic featuring Kirk drawn in Shatner's likeness? Or the upcoming finale which will feature the entre Prime Universe TOS gang drawn to resemble the original actors? How does Spock Prime instantly recognize everyone if there is indeed a difference in how they look in the two universes, as the comics seem to overwhelmingly suggest?

Because, despite the pretense of close continuity between the comics and the movies, Mike Johnson is evidently operating on a fundamentally different set of assumptions than those used by the screenwriters. The filmmakers' intent was that it was a branching timeline created by Nero's incursion and that the characters looked the same in-universe. Johnson is operating from the assumption that the Prime and Abrams timelines are just two of an infinite number of parallel universes with arbitrary differences between them, like the characters having different faces.

Of course, to some extent the decision is understandable. Whatever the in-universe logic should be, the different actors' likenesses serve to avoid confusing the audience. The readers would find it odd if Kirk Prime were drawn to look like Chris Pine, for example. If nothing else, it's a convenient visual cue to distinguish the two versions of the characters.

 

[DimesDan]

Of course, to some extent the decision is understandable. Whatever the in-universe logic should be, the different actors' likenesses serve to avoid confusing the audience. The readers would find it odd if Kirk Prime were drawn to look like Chris Pine, for example. If nothing else, it's a convenient visual cue to distinguish the two versions of the characters.

Which is what I said and managed to say in half the words.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I think the Wormhole is talking about the TOS characters; not Picard, Q, Sisko, etc.

So was I.

 

[The Wormhole]

So was I.

But you specifically said "character who weren't in the new movies yet." If you were indeed referring to the TOS characters, than it should be pretty damn obvious they were in the movies. That's kind of who the movies are about.

 

[Avro Arrow]

So do Kirk and Lindstrom. But it would hardly be the first time that a work of older science fiction used "human" interchangeably with "humanoid alien." The same was done in "Miri," "The Alternative Factor," arguably "A Taste of Armageddon" (since Kirk seems to be including the Eminians when he says "We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it"), maybe "Errand of Mercy" (where Kor says a post-mind sifter victim is "more vegetable than human," even though it presumably hasn't been used on many Earth humans yet), implicitly "Wolf in the Fold" (since Spock's statement that the killer is "not human" is meant to exclude Argelians as well), and "The Apple" ("The good doctor was concerned that the Vaalians achieve true human stature").

It's an old trope going back to previous centuries, really -- European explorers had found human populations on every continent they visited, so a lot of early SF writers, like Jules Verne, just took it for granted that there would be varieties of human on other planets as well, that we were an inevitable product of evolution (or divine creation). So plenty of SF from the pulp era and later used "human" to refer to what we would now call humanoid aliens, without intending to imply that their ancestors had originated on Earth. It was implicitly understood to be a parallel evolution, the kneejerk assumption that all planets would recapitulate Earth's development. And indeed that parallel-evolution idea was deliberately built into the TOS premise as a money-saving move to justify Earth-duplicate cultures on other worlds. So we did get occasional episodes where "human" was used to mean "alien without any significant differences from the human form."

Sorry to veer off topic here, but... I never really realized this was done so much in TOS. So based on this, one could then legitimately interpret the dialogue in "Metamorphosis" to allow that Cochrane was a member of an indigenous Alpha Centaurian species, if one was so inclined?

 

[Enterprise1701]

I find it especially annoying that in the "Live Evil" arc, mirror Khan Noonien Singh introduces himself by that name, but he is drawn in Benedict Cumberbatch's likeness. This universe even has a Botany Bay too.

On the other hand, I suppose I do enjoy the use of TOS likenesses for characters such as Samuel Cogley and Cyrano Jones. "Legacy of Spock, Part 2" even includes a bartender aboard Deep Space Station K-7 who may or may not be Nilz Baris.

I also enjoy that the large Romulan ships in the ongoing series look like direct precursors of the 24th century D'Deridex class while the small ones look like direct successors of the 22nd century bird of prey. Though amusingly, the civilian ships in orbit of Romulus in "Legacy of Spock, Part 2" include reuses of both 24th century Klingon and Romulan designs.