What do you think of Steven W. Carabatsos' TOS episodes?

[Esteban]

It's always struck me how easy it is to forget the cold equations of time. For us, ST is timeless. For Steve Carabatsos, he had a 3-month gig that was probably in total panic mode, if everything we know about the first season scripts is correct.

Picture coming into a job where your boss delivers piles and piles of pages on your desk and says "hurry up and fix these"! Especially since John D. F. Black seemed to have had short-timer attitude toward the end of his tenure, and Gene Coon was similarly tossed into fire, I bet Carabtsos just did the only TV job he knew how to do, rewrite scripts based on input from his boss, staff, and whatever skill he posessed.

Obviously, his contract was not renewed, and from the little evidence we have he was out before DC Fontana was in. So Roddenberry and I imagine Coon decided he wasn't right for the job.

I equate it in my mind as a singer who works at a night club for three months and then one day isn't asked back. It may have been a sour memory for him or not, but it seems to not have affected him much. "It was just another TV show...."

 

[Push The Button]

I've long since accepted that notion that Kirk wasn't in his right mind when he said he was 34 in "The Deadly Years." I think he was about 34 when he got command of the Enterprise, which helps line up a lot of other things for Kirk's backstory.

So in "The Deadly Years" Kirk could be anywhere from 36-38.

Shatner was 34 when WNMHGB was made. I like to think of Kirk as being the same age as Shat during the TOS years, so Kirk was 35-36 in season one, 36-37 in two, and 37-38 in three. This all goes to hell once we get into the movies, of course.

 

[Harvey]

Shatner was 34 when WNMHGB was made. I like to think of Kirk as being the same age as Shat during the TOS years, so Kirk was 35-36 in season one, 36-37 in two, and 37-38 in three. This all goes to hell once we get into the movies, of course.

"The Deadly Years" establishes Kirk was 34 during the episode (season two).

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I disagree so totally and completely with the idea of this thread that I'd be here a week trying to rebut everything here, and why do it? I've already done a bit of that on the Galileo thread, and that didn't make a difference.

We disagree on what's good and what's bad, what's solid and what's lightweight. A lot of your "obvious" classics are what mine are to you... good but hardly great. I mean, Tribbles is good for a few laughs, and well don e for what it is.

Well, that's part of why I wrote up my reactions to the individual episodes he worked on, so that you & others could put my opinions in context. If you re-read where I went through the dozen episodes, you'll notice that I came out of it with a more positive opinion of Carabatsos than I went into it with. As I said, I didn't intend this as a "Let's Bash Carabatsos" thread, and I apologize if it came off that way. I don't see the point in doing something that negative. (That's why the thread is titled "What do you think..." instead of "Doesn't this guy SUCK?")

But yeah, I don't think that he was one of Trek's better writers. And who knows? Maybe Carabatsos might have agreed with me!

But hey, I wanted to hear others' opinions and maybe learn a bit more about the guy in the process. If I just wanted an echo chamber of people agreeing with me, I wouldn't post it here.

...And maybe we should spin the debate about Kirk's age into its own thread? It's getting a bit off-topic, IMO.

 

[telerites]

Carabatsos Terror is one of my favorites. I have to admit I didn't know much at all about Carabatsos. Good info.

 

[feek61]

Obviously, his contract was not renewed, and from the little evidence we have he was out before DC Fontana was in. So Roddenberry and I imagine Coon decided he wasn't right for the job.

Harvey can correct me if I am mistaken but I'm sure the decision of Carabatsos to leave was his own. I think I remember reading something that there was heavy pressure on him and rewriting the scripts was time-consuming for him; particularly when he was not a big SF guy. I believe he opted to write for a series that he was more familiar with the format and hence easier for him.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I'm going to pull out my copy of Inside Star Trek to see what Justman & Solow might have to say about him...

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Hmm. According to the index in my paperback copy, Carabatsos is mentioned only on two pages, mostly in passing, pgs. 259 and 284. He was hired as a Story Consultant during the last week of August 1966, during the production of "Miri," and he was one of several people who rewrote COTEOF. That's about all they say about him.

 

[J.T.B.]

He seemed, in the short interview snippets I've seen, to downplay his work on Trek, recalling it as just another job, and he thought he wasn't as well versed in SF as the people around him.

That makes sense. It seems like sometimes in early S1 the attitude toward "science fiction" was that it mean weird, fantastic things could happen, whether or not it could be explained scientifically. So the "Miri" Earth copy, the going back in time again erasing what had happened to Christopher, the Venus drug and placebo... more Twilight Zone-ish than our later assumptions of Star Trek.

There were definitely some weaknesses. "Conscience of the King" is just a lift from Westerns, with some of the technical implications "frozen" at the level of telegraphs and wanted posters. Still, I like it. I find the biggest weakness in "Court Martial" to be that they have a great lawyer character who makes a good speech and make him absolutely unnecessary. But that episode laid a lot of useful foundation for the Starfleet organization. The minute or so of Spock being blind in "Operation Annihilate," though, that was cheap.

But it was a new series, things were probably kind of shaky and Carabatsos likely had a lot on his plate. I tend to cut him quite a bit of slack.

"The Deadly Years" establishes Kirk was 34 during the episode (season two).

Which actually doesn't seem out of line with what was shown "Court Martial," where Kirk's academy classmates are lieutenants.

 

[Warped9]

"The Deadly Years" establishes Kirk was 34 during the episode (season two).

Meh.

 

[BillJ]

His contributions seems hit or miss, much like most of the series. But how do you grade the "script consultant" episodes without knowing what his actual input into those episodes were?

 

[tim0122]

Which is exactly the backstory used in James Blish's adaptation.

I thought that was in the novelization. Haven't read it but have heard people talk about it on here. Always liked the idea. Well, I like the idea of the duplicate Earth, as well, but only if the writer actually goes somewhere with the idea. Even you're writing something that you think might go out on TV and disappear or something that you don't think people will think too much about, you're a better writer if you still make sure that the story makes sense. Remember, writers, no blah, blah, blah.

 

[Harvey]

Meh.

 

[Warped9]

I already gave my rationalization upthread. I should have added a smiley face.

 

[Push The Button]

"The Deadly Years" establishes Kirk was 34 during the episode (season two).

True, however as someone upthread mentioned, this was Kirk's testimony during his extraordinary competency hearing, during which he was already showing signs of dementia. I had an elderly neighbor in his 90's that couldn't recall or even calculate his own exact age, he would just round it off to "almost 100" when it came up in conversation.

It seems that Carabatsos was certainly "in the room" for a lot of the great behind-the-scenes first season moments in Trek history.

 

[Nebusj]

True, however as someone upthread mentioned, this was Kirk's testimony during his extraordinary competency hearing, during which he was already showing signs of dementia. I had an elderly neighbor in his 90's that couldn't recall or even calculate his own exact age, he would just round it off to "almost 100" when it came up in conversation.

I credit you with a Timo-like ingenuity there. But I can't get behind it. If Kirk had asserted he was 35, I could accept that as rounding off, with some trouble. But nobody rounds off their age to number as specific as 34.

More, it doesn't fit the scene: if Kirk is not in fact 34 by the calendar then that's another point to undermine his competency. Mixing up Gamma Hydra II and Gamma Hydra IV is serious, but the audience would be forgiven for not knowing the difference themselves. Not knowing your own age is more primal.

(Mostly. I admit it gets easier to naturally forget your age at some point, and let anyone who doesn't deep down think of 1998 as ``a couple years ago'' come up where I can kick you in the shins. Anyway 1960s TV characters wouldn't make a human slip like that.)

 

[johnnybear]

Court Martial was the first Trek I ever saw way back in 1970 and it wasn't very impressive to my seven year old self I have to admit. I enjoy it more nowadays though but I've always liked his Operation:Annihilate! The creatures were hideously disgusting and we all felt for Spock being attacked by one of them didn't we!
JB

 

[Warped9]

I credit you with a Timo-like ingenuity there. But I can't get behind it. If Kirk had asserted he was 35, I could accept that as rounding off, with some trouble. But nobody rounds off their age to number as specific as 34.

More, it doesn't fit the scene: if Kirk is not in fact 34 by the calendar then that's another point to undermine his competency. Mixing up Gamma Hydra II and Gamma Hydra IV is serious, but the audience would be forgiven for not knowing the difference themselves. Not knowing your own age is more primal.

(Mostly. I admit it gets easier to naturally forget your age at some point, and let anyone who doesn't deep down think of 1998 as ``a couple years ago'' come up where I can kick you in the shins. Anyway 1960s TV characters wouldn't make a human slip like that.)

I'm the one who put forth the idea of Kirk not being in his right mind in "The Deadly Years" and I stand by it. I have seen lots of people of advanced years not being able to recall exact numbers (like age) and coming up with all sorts of guesses that aren't rounded off.

And 34 would be a significant number if it was Kirk's age when he was given command of the Enterprise as the youngest to ever achieve starship command. Note that every other starship commander we saw in TOS was distinctly older by perhaps even a decade. Starship command tended to go to older and more experienced officers.

It also makes sense in allowing a few more years for Kirk to have seasoned even though he got the position younger than anyone else before him. It was an important achievement.

 

[BillJ]

True, however as someone upthread mentioned, this was Kirk's testimony during his extraordinary competency hearing, during which he was already showing signs of dementia. I had an elderly neighbor in his 90's that couldn't recall or even calculate his own exact age, he would just round it off to "almost 100" when it came up in conversation.

I think someone would've spoken up, groaned or at least rolled their eyes if Kirk didn't know his own age.

 

[Warped9]

I think someone would've spoken up, groaned or at least rolled their eyes if Kirk didn't know his own age.

Considering some of the other reactions respectful silence was sufficient rather than calling him out on another lapse of memory.