CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Jody Wheeler]

!. How much donor money do they actually have left? Did Alec put some of it to the legal situation?

No one knows. Alec said early on he wouldn't, but the books haven't be independently audited, so there's no certainty. They have had a (relatively) high dollar burn rate to keep the studio open, six months at around $15k a month, going by AxaMonitor estimates. That could mean $90-100K has been spent.

2. How much of their talent has jumped ship? I know Tony Todd and sean Tourengaeu have left, but will they struggle attracting the same calibre of talent to fill roles?

That's another good question. Do they still have people lining up to work with them (did they ever?) or are they going to have to stock this with second and fourth tier people? It's Hollywood. There's a lot of undiscovered talent hidden in cubbies, closets, and car trunks, but it's a devil to find them.

3. Does Alec still intend to make the movie? Will he have to pull back stuff to accomodate the budget?

Again, based on what they published in December, they were still looking for another $1m+ to actually -make- the movie. They'd raised $1.4m, but that was all effectively "pre-production" work. The $1m, in four $250k chunks, was to make each act of the film. Cthulhu only knows if they were going to need still more money for post, always expensive.

So they've spent a significant amount of money in pre-production and in just keeping the place running. If it's reasonable to think they don't have much left in the bank, then they are going to need to crowd fund not only for that last million but for more millions to make up the lost money. Are there that many fans out there to refill their coffers from? Will CBS even let them do it? Will JJ donate to the production?

All these questions and more will be answered next time on The Real Axanar...

 

[CaptGrumpy]

No one knows. Alec said early on he wouldn't, but the books haven't be independently audited, so there's no certainty. They have had a (relatively) high dollar burn rate to keep the studio open, six months at around $15k a month, going by AxaMonitor estimates. That could mean $90-100K has been spent.



That's another good question. Do they still have people lining up to work with them (did they ever?) or are they going to have to stock this with second and fourth tier people? It's Hollywood. There's a lot of undiscovered talent hidden in cubbies, closets, and car trunks, but it's a devil to find them.



Again, based on what they published in December, they were still looking for another $1m+ to actually -make- the movie. They'd raised $1.4m, but that was all effectively "pre-production" work. The $1m, in four $250k chunks, was to make each act of the film. Cthulhu only knows if they were going to need still more money for post, always expensive.

So they've spent a significant amount of money in pre-production and in just keeping the place running. If it's reasonable to think they don't have much left in the bank, then they are going to need to crowd fund not only for that last million but for more millions to make up the lost money. Are there that many fans out there to refill their coffers from? Will CBS even let them do it? Will JJ donate to the production?

All these questions and more will be answered next time on The Real Axanar...

Another question: Will enough money be raised to make it? As we've seen, some of the Axanar faithful are jumping ship. Again a lot has come out about Peter and his unsavioury tactics. Will that stunt fundraising?

 

[SeerSGB]

I agree with this. Those who hail a settlement as the vindication of Alec Peters do not know what a settlement is. It's not likely the win they think it is. Legally, CBS/Paramount hold the cards (if the info we have is correct). They are the ones in the driver's seat, as I can see it. As has been pointed out, settlement talks were supposed to start around now, according to Judge Klausner.

Then there's whatever post-settlement terms that CBS/Paramount put on the deal. Be it no crowdfunding, a NDA, handing over the studio, damages/fines, whatever it ends up being if Peters gets stubborn and let's his ego get in the way and agrees to a settlement and doesn't follow the terms (and let's be honest, it is possible given his ego and his mouth) he'll be in worse shape than when this started.

 

[muCephi]

I got a bag of coffee right before it went off the market. Now I'm wondering how much of a collector's item it might wind up being.

frame the beans one by one and sell with a picture of the Ares, and a FB snap of Alec calling a coffee-questioning donor a hater as COA. You can pay your Starbucks for years

 

[muCephi]

listen to the Axanar official podcast of 8/30/15, with Alec and the director being interviewed, repeatedly talk about how they are using other people's IP, having a program in place to license their IP to others, a dump on Renegade for not having business smarts about CBS IP and "never having official sanction" (listen for "oh we hired the best lawyers.."), the 'little heads' of fans, and if CBS gets upset that their IP is being used without permission, sorry but they arent using it... then another section about the future of Ares studios, a place where they can show equity investors the quality of their work, and deliberately doing productions to guild auspices so their work can be picked up by CBS in the future, and creating a studio known for great genre movies as they will be known for making quality Star Trek, and how CBS should (but refused to) let them (Axanar) license Star Trek products to resell "because they are working at such a high level"...

listen for this highlight at approx 30:10, and how the rest of the sentence is finished
"but, you do not want to do things that are gonna piss off CBS..."

minutes 20 - 40: http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/7/c/3/7c3...53190718&hwt=c39fed7a1354f7143c18cfdb4eaa40a8

and this was just a single dip into what they have put online. I just don't know how they think anything can save them..

for folks who have joined this thread in the last month or so, I highly recommend listening to the Axanar podcast from last August, link in the posting quoted above.

It takes about 15 minutes to get into the meat of things, but you will hear Alec and one of his fellow staffers talk about licensing the game pieces, saying CBS has abandoned Trek so its ok to take their IP, their intention to use their studio to create sf to even license back into CBS, dump on critics and another fan film (and fans in their little heads, I quote), a bunch of other things, and towards the end, even take a sexist dump on a TOS cast member.

It takes some intestinal fortitude to listen to this whole thing, and my apologies frankly for even bringing it to your attention. but if you can manage it, then please ask yourself just one question: are these really the type of people in whose current mental state of adolescent contempt you want writing Trek? That may sound harsh, but just listen to it all, right to the end.

 

[cultcross]

That's another good question. Do they still have people lining up to work with them (did they ever?) or are they going to have to stock this with second and fourth tier people? It's Hollywood. There's a lot of undiscovered talent hidden in cubbies, closets, and car trunks, but it's a devil to find them.

And it's only going to be harder to find talent when they've spent six months dumping on all the other fan films and a number of their own staff. I imagine not many will rush to offer a helping hand if they get the green light again. Quite apart from the lawsuit, the damage they've done while being dicks about it is not small.

 

[CaptGrumpy]

for folks who have joined this thread in the last month or so, I highly recommend listening to the Axanar podcast from last August, link in the posting quoted above.

It takes about 15 minutes to get into the meat of things, but you will hear Alec and one of his fellow staffers talk about licensing the game pieces, saying CBS has abandoned Trek fans so its ok to take their IP, their intention to use their studio to create sf to even license back into CBS, dump on critics and another fan film, a bunch of other things, and towards the end, even take a sexist dump on a TOS cast member.

It takes some intestinal fortitude to listen to this whole thing, and my apologies frankly for even bringing it to your attention. but if you can manage it, then please ask yourself just one question: are these really the type of people in whose current state of adolescent contempt you want writing Trek? That may sound harsh, but just listen to it all.

Thanks for posting the link again. TBH, I've avoided listening to this, but the time has come to bite the bullet.

 

[muCephi]

Thanks for posting the link again. TBH, I've avoided listening to this, but the time has come to bite the bullet.

my apologies again, and find a bucket

 

[CaptGrumpy]

my apologies again, and find a bucket

No apologies necessary. I never shoot the messenger.
Well except for that one time..................and then the time when................
Well, I practically never shoot the messenger

 

[muCephi]

No apologies necessary. I never shoot the messenger.
Well except for that one time..................and then the time when................
Well, I practically never shoot the messenger

I will retreat to the safe room for a bit, then

 

[ThankYouGeneR]

Irrespective of what you may think of his work there's no doubt in my mind that JJ Abrams is a very intelligent man and I'd be very surprised if at some point in the future he retracted his comments regarding this because he's spoken out of turn. So with that in mind I'm left with the belief that he's made these comments with a fixed goal in mind and it's possibly a fixed goal that's not immediately clear certainly to me and, judging by lots of the comments here and elsewhere, it's also not clear to plenty of other people.

Wheels within wheels...

This sooo mirrors what I've been thinking; this wasn't whim, not off the cuff, but instead planned and run by the Plaintiffs before hand. Now this in no way means to 'me' Mssrs. Abrams and Linn are being disingenuous about caring or in support of. But the irony of the creators of the films often pointed to in disgust by the defendant himself and production supporters, with calls out to boycott the coming film Paramount needs to succeed in this crucial time for the studio, and blatant suggestions by the few that bad robot is behind fully supporting, you know, everything... very publicly come riding out with White Hat support, at where? A fan convention was it not? Speaking in perfect sound bites for headlines?

Brilliant!

Uh huh. I concur; wheels within wheels. The Business is historically known (notorious one could say, even at times infamous) for wheels within wheels. Now when was the first time we heard Mr. Abrams expressing support for this production thats creators & followers have ongoingly decried him & his own trek productions? At this Star Trek fan event? At Paramount Studios? Only weeks before the newest movie is released? That Paramount and Mssrs. Abrams & Linn have made together?

I speculate that in addition to the possibility of genuine support of the production or fan productions in general, even going to bat for them, we are also watching a calculated Great Terrific Hollywood Caliber PR move in play for all the studios as business concerns involved in making these movies, and for the studios that comprise the Plaintiffs.

Allowing, even creating, an avenue one's opponent can save face is a well used tactic and effective tool in maneuvering an opponent into the desired position of acquiescence in a conflict like a lawsuit settlement.

 

[mos6507]

Thanks for posting the link again. TBH, I've avoided listening to this, but the time has come to bite the bullet.

Wow. They seemed to, at some level, realize they were in strange uncharted territory, and yet they were, even then, starting to wrap themselves with defenses and rationalizations.

"You don't want to piss off CBS...We may well be the worst offender of that. (har har har)"

Then a tear against Renegades (as if two wrongs make a right).

"We have to be really smart about what we're doing, considering that we're using their IP."

And yet they're bragging about model kits and "licensing" other Axanar merch.

"If they do get offended, sorry, we're trying our best."

It's amazing that there's such a detailed record of their hubris and self-incrimination and the mental gymnastics used to justify what they were doing.

Well, it's all fast becoming water under the bridge. We can only hope that CBS's settlement terms and new rules eliminates the ability for any fan-film project to adopt this sort of quasi-commercial-franchise level, and IMHO, that goes for Renegades as much as Axanar.

 

[Franklin]

I'm sure C/P will not want any settlement worded in a way that would allow Peters or anyone else on that side to declare even a smidgen of victory. If anything, I imagine it worded in a way that makes C/P seem magnanimous. For example, CBS/P do publish fan film guidelines in the near future, you can be sure it will be stated they're doing it to avoid any more Axanar-type situations, not because Peters requested them to do it. If they allow Peters to keep the studio (maybe with stipulations), it will not be because Peters negotiated it, but because CBS/P may say they did not want to deprive Peters the ability to make a living (and good luck to him doing that in the pool he pissed in, by the way). I can't see any settlement which allows Axanar to be made in any form, which was the nub of the entire thing, so for that reason, I can't see any settlement Peters can spin into a victory. He may not have to admit guilt to anything, and may only have to say he did not intend for things to get out of hand, but that may be the only victory he achieves.

My point is C/P will determine Peters' fate the same way a cat may become bored toying with a cornered mouse and walk away rather than kill it.

 

[CaptGrumpy]

I wonder if Mr Abrams and Lin read the Indiegogo page and the Ares Studio announcements before throwing their support behind Alec. I wonder if they were aware of the depth of IP thievery involved in this project. I also wonder if they would be as supportive we were to substitute their IP's in place of Star Trek,

 

[Franklin]

I wonder if Mr Abrams and Lin read the Indiegogo page and the Ares Studio announcements before throwing their support behind Alec. I wonder if they were aware of the depth of IP thievery involved in this project. I also wonder if they would be as supportive we were to substitute their IP's in place of Star Trek,

Probably not. In fact, why would they? I'm also wondering to what extent this was actually some kind of show of support or sympathy for Peters or in the real "back rooms" just a recommendation to C/P to get the damn thing over with. Peters is a small fish no matter how you look at it. C/P has made its point. Why continue with an isolated incident that only risks becoming bigger than it should be and creating irreparable collateral damage.

 

[CaptGrumpy]

Probably not. In fact, why would they? I'm also wondering to what extent this was actually some kind of show of support or sympathy for Peters or in the real "back rooms" just a recommendation to C/P to get the damn thing over with. Peters is a small fish no matter how you look at it. C/P has made its point. Why continue with an isolated incident that only risks becoming bigger than it should be and creating irreparable collateral damage.

No. Check out the video. Abrams said point blank that the studio would be dropping the suit. Again, my feelings are that he spoke out of turn. Alec's surprise at the announcement seems to speak to the fact that this is not official. I'd think any official news about the suit would have had to be relayed to the defendant before the public.

 

[OtherGene]

Why? It's his story to tell. It's not unusual to hold back until there is an emotional tipping point. The J J announcement clearly was his. He was told to stop his film, and JJ's announcement makes it look like Alec will get off scot free (if that is what the settlement will be). If production starts up again, they'll need people and Tommy wants those people to know what they're getting into. Perfect time to tell his story. Was it wrong for David Galanter to tell his story last week?

If I'd donated some money to a project and then, after the fact, a load of people involved came forward and spilled the beans on how the project was being run really badly I think I'd feel a little bit aggrieved that these 'whistleblowers' hadn't come forward earlier to, perhaps, warn me off.

Of course, as with anything, in this example I should've run some basic due diligence before punching my card details in and donated anything so I'm not trying to absolve those donors of some of the responsibility for their actions.

 

[OtherGene]

Alec Peters wouldn't recognize class, tact or adult behavior if it served him with a lawsuit.



Sure. Despite being given the unexpected opportunity to do a little faux victory lap this weekend everyone there knows that the grand plan is hosed by the settlement. This is what all the lashing out was about last week, and why he can't stop it now.

Holy shit I've just realised you're Dennis "Tin Man and First Contact" Bailey.

Have some love.

 

[Franklin]

No. Check out the video. Abrams said point blank that the studio would be dropping the suit. Again, my feelings are that he spoke out of turn. Alec's surprise at the announcement seems to speak to the fact that this is not official. I'd think any official news about the suit would have had to be relayed to the
defendant before the public.

Oh, Abrams spoke out of turn. As so many people have pointed out in this thread what part of NEVER DISCUSS AN ONGOING LAWSUIT IN PUBLIC don't people understand?

If CBS/P outright drops the lawsuit, I am so boycotting STB.

As others have said, I think there's confusion between "settlement" and "dropping" the suit. Some may say since settling a lawsuit means it never went to court, it can be interpreted as dropping the suit. I'd say that's spurious reasoning, but that's just me.

Look at the story as it's reported on Trekmovie.com, especially the banner headline:
http://trekmovie.com/2016/05/20/jj-abrams-announces-paramountcbs-has-agreed-to-drop-axanar-lawsuit/

They say C/P confirmed they are "abandoning" the lawsuit (Trekmovie.com's word). The statement posted by C/P that Trekmovie.com says is an announcement of dropping the suit actually says, "We are pleased to confirm we are in settlement discussions [emphasis mine] and are also working on a set of fan film guidelines." The way that is stated, the guidelines may even be independent of the settlement. As in we have two new developments to report: 1) our lawyers are working on a settlement, and 2) we have people working on fan film guidelines.

 

[mos6507]

Why continue with an isolated incident that only risks becoming bigger than it should be and creating irreparable collateral damage.

I think once you extricate yourself from analyzing the details, what JJ said about the big picture of unifying fans for the 50th makes sense. Is it absolutely necessary for CBS/P to extract a pound of flesh from AP if it also means alienating some of the fanbase? More casual fans are not privvy to the details of the case and are probably more prone to being sympathetic to Axanar as representative of fandom. I'm sure AP was counting on it, but it's true, that's how these things work. PR is more about the perception than the reality.

If there's a way to make it look like CBS/P showed mercy towards Axanar AND used the episode to establish guidelines the fans and the studio can both agree on, then it's win/win. The only party that will feel slighted will be those who have so much of a grudge against Alec that they needed to see him ruined and living in a van...down by the river.