STC Ep. 6: "Come Not Between The Dragons" grading and discussion....(possible spoilers)

[Maurice]

My personal take is if you;re going to make your mission statement to be "Star Trek as it might have been in a 4th season" then you have to assume it's 1970 and there's no connecting dots forward. If you don't then you're not playing by the rules you established. It's fine not to play by the rules so long as you're not claiming to be.

 

[GSchnitzer]

Certainly, TOS was first out the gate--so there was ever any chance for it to "connect the dots" with Star Trek's future of course.

When there was an opportunity to connect "TOS" with Star Trek's
known future--which it can only do when "TOS" (i.e., the movies)--was produced contemporaneously with or after some Trek production that took place 80 years in TOS's future, they didn't appear to shy away from connecting those dots. They just rarely had the opportunity.

 

[Zaminhon]

This is my problem with STC as well. Kirk isn't Kirk.

Are we watching the same web series? I don't think there's a closer representation of Kirk than Vic's. He has the spirit and mannerisms down pat and is recognizable as Kirk by any standard. The Turnabout Intruder vignette and the opening of "Fairest" with side by side comparison proves that to a degree, and what Vic extrapolates from the character in new 4th season territory logically follows for the most part. He's a little softer, but he's also aging, maturing and getting closer to the"Admiralty" we see in TMP.

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

They are trying to do character arcs, so that does make sense. STC has more than one goal in mind, so it can't quite be the total package in terms of "exactly" what we would have seen in season 4.

 

[mos6507]

Then he's not faithfully interpreting the original Star Trek series, and another reason why "Starship Exeter" gets the gold star in fanfilms. There's no need to make a fan series claiming it's being accurate but is failing on the writing process by not embracing what was done. Too many times these fan-projects, even Hollywood themselves, feel the need to correct what never had to be corrected. It's make believe, there's no need to sh*t on what was done just to make their accomplishments appear better.

Exeter wasn't the Enterprise. Totally different crew. The storytelling had a TOS feel, but it was also pretty light on social commentary. More of a straight adventure approach.

I know by doing a fan-film at all you're kind of in cover-band territory, but if you're going to put your blood sweat and tears into anything, you're going to want to tell a story that matters to you the way you want it done. Over the course of 79 TOS episodes, Kirk was portrayed in several different ways. At times he was by-the-book and somewhat of a hard-ass. Other times (especially 3rd season) he was yukking it up at the end of the episode (Fred Freiberger influence). Why did the characterization wander like that? Because the show had multiple writers and directors and they all interpreted who Kirk should be. Then you get to TMP and he is a complete hard-ass with almost no sense of humor. Then you get to Khan and he's by the book but with at least a twinkle in his eye. You know, the character takes on a new coat of paint depending on who is handling things. Vic wants to do a less hedonistic, softer, more introspective Kirk. That's his prerogative.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Are we watching the same web series? I don't think there's a closer representation of Kirk than Vic's. He has the spirit and mannerisms down pat and is recognizable as Kirk by any standard. The Turnabout Intruder vignette and the opening of "Fairest" with side by side comparison proves that to a degree, and what Vic extrapolates from the character in new 4th season territory logically follows for the most part. He's a little softer, but he's also aging, maturing and getting closer to the"Admiralty" we see in TMP.

Yes we are watching the same web series.

It's not just about the looks or the mannerisms. Or having a physical resemblance.

It's with the way the character is written. Kirk is written more like Picard in several of the episodes, as @Warped9 wrote in his post. He isn't very Kirk-like with how he approaches and solves problems.

It's Vic Mignogna's Kirk!

What I said above. It's not just the performance. It's the writing.

 

[Warped9]

We can get pretty emphatic with our criticisms, but I hope they're not taken as an overall disapproval, at least from me.

It's no secret that in many ways I really like STC. If I exclude the fact we're not seeing the original cast in their prime I can say they're scoring at about 90 percent. It's the most I've enjoyed Star Trek for a very long time.

And it's because I think they do very well generally that I sometimes find myself thinking, "Ah, man! I wish they hadn't done that." It's at those moments I wish I could have a crack at story editing and making some suggestions as to how I think they could do something a bit better and more in keeping with their oft stated intent.


One item that isn't really a nitpick, but rather an observation is in regard to running time. They seem to have settled into the more contemporary 40-42 minute running time for their episodes. I think "Lolani" might be their only genuine 50-51 minute episode.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Probably, it was initially the idea to have 50+ mins but when previewing what STC had; it was best to tighten the scenes. No biggie.

 

[Maurice]

Exeter wasn't the Enterprise. Totally different crew. The storytelling had a TOS feel, but it was also pretty light on social commentary. More of a straight adventure approach.

And how much "social commentary" is there in most fanfilms? Let's not flatter ourselves.

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

Pilgrim of Eternity - 51:24
Lolani - 50:54
Fairest of Them All - 40:33
The White Iris - 47:54
Divided We Stand - 42:45
Come Not Between the Dragons - 42:21

 

[Warped9]

Pilgrim of Eternity - 51:24
Lolani - 50:54
Fairest of Them All - 40:33
The White Iris - 47:54
Divided We Stand - 42:45
Come Not Between the Dragons - 42:21

Yeah, POE had that unusual coda at the end.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Pilgrim of Eternity - 51:24
Lolani - 50:54
Fairest of Them All - 40:33
The White Iris - 47:54
Divided We Stand - 42:45
Come Not Between the Dragons - 42:21

Whatever needs to be done to tighten scenes to make a better film is always a plus I think.

 

[Not Herbert]

In an alternate universe, TOS was renewed for the '69/'70 season and Freiberger was sacked. Somehow the powers that be at Paramount saw fit to increase the budget at Trek, and Bob Justman returned to the show as producer. Naturally there would have been a domino effect that would effect on other series, so let's assume that Lawrence Montaigne ended up playing Paris on Mission: Impossible.

 

[9gs]

We can get pretty emphatic with our criticisms, but I hope they're not taken as an overall disapproval, at least from me.

It's no secret that in many ways I really like STC. If I exclude the fact we're not seeing the original cast in their prime I can say they're scoring at about 90 percent. It's the most I've enjoyed Star Trek for a very long time.

True most of the criticism (including mine) is nitpicking BS. I just keep hoping for that 'classic' as I know they can do with the right script. What would TOS have been (especially the FX) if they had 3 months to work on the shots and more $$ (the vast majority have stood the test of time). Vic does not need to be in every scene as the center of attention as some have said of another captain. A perfect example of this is early in EP6. Its going to be a sad day when they only do 13 episodes unless someone gives them a huge wad of $$.

 

[Warped9]

I read some of the background on Mission: Impossible and when Nimoy got onto the series for two seasons. Apparently he was generally disappointed since the character of Paris had significantly less character development than Spock. There is also the fact that Paris was often meant to be impersonating someone else so Nimoy was often playing different characters with little development to any of them.

On M:I Nimoy might have opportunity to express more range than on Star Trek, but none of the characters he played had any depth.


Candidly I think Freiberger gets an unfair amount of criticism. He was left to sink or swim on his own with next to no help from Roddenberry and no support from Paramount. Robert Justman and the cast were the only ones left to help provide focus and direction and Justman was simply burnt out and had to bail.

If Roddenberry had sucked it up and stuck with the show and Fontana could have been convinced to stay on then Justman would no longer have been alone and it might have made a world of difference even despite Paramount being cheap.

 

[E-DUB]

Haven't seen it yet, but I think the fairest comparison of all is to compare it to their other efforts. My personal opinion is that "Lolani" is the high-water mark so far,

 

[Warped9]

Its going to be a sad day when they only do 13 episodes unless someone gives them a huge wad of $$.

True, but I believe the long term plan was to do only thirteen episodes. It does make sense when you can release only two or maybe occasionally three episodes a year. Regularly releasing two episodes a year is pretty damned good considering the uncertain schedules of most fan productions.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I read some if the background on Mission: Impossible and when Nimoy got onto the series for two seasons. Apparently he was generally disappointed since the character of Paris had significantly less character development than Spock. There is also the fact that Paris was often meant to be impersonating someone else so Nimoy was often playing different characters with little development to any of them.

Like a cheap knockoff of Rollin Hand without the star power.

 

[9gs]

True, but I believe the long term plan was to do only thirteen episodes. It does make sense when you can release only two or maybe occasionally three episodes a year. Regularly releasing two episodes a year is pretty damned good considering the uncertain schedules of most fan productions.

I wonder if that is also a limitation of their studio. When I visited Farragut Fest (STC was already filming there I think) the building had little to no A/C, heat, and insulation. It must be brutal in the GA summer in there unless that has changed.

 

[Karzak]

If this episode "continues" the same quality I've seen in the previous five, I'll enjoy it just as much as I did the others.

From the teaser, I have no reason to doubt that it will be just as good.

I don't know about that. The last two episodes have suffered a severe dip in quality, story-wise so in my opinion STC has a bit of an uphill battle to get back to their former glory.

While it's easy to praise STC because you know, they actually produce their episodes, I was far less impressed by The White Iris and Divided We Stand than the previous three entries. I am hopeful however Episode 6 will be a return to form and will be happy to share my thoughts once I'm able to view it.