Who sabotaged the warp drive?

[The Wormhole]

OK alternate fan fiction time. Did Section 31 begin back in old Earth as Section 1?

Actually, according to the recent novel Elusive Salvation

Spoiler: in the novel

there was a secret division of the US military in the 1990s tasked with investigating alien life (though most of the time it's just the various Starfleet crews coming from the future). They operate out of section 31 of a sub-basement in the Pentagon.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Actually, according to the recent novel Elusive Salvation

Spoiler: in the novel

there was a secret division of the US military in the 1990s tasked with investigating alien life (though most of the time it's just the various Starfleet crews coming from the future). They operate out of section 31 of a sub-basement in the Pentagon.

That works for me too.

But what did they do when WW III broke out?

And First Contact with the Vulcans

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Hey did Khan break Carol's leg? You never see much of what he does to her but it looks like he breaks her leg.

 

[Ovation]

He did.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

He did.

Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When they beam back to the Enterprise they are all in the brig. She's holding her knee. So I assumed he did something to her knee.

 

[Timo]

He wanted a war and what better way then do do this attack and then rope the Klingons into it with the Enterprise.

I guess the only better way would be to frame the Klingons for some atrocity. But supposedly the real Klingons were already doing atrocities left and right, with the Starfleet doves still purring happily; adding one in downtown London might not carry enough weight. Plus, mixing Klingons into all this would be a bit too unpredictable in practice, while not being sufficiently unpredictable and threatening in appearance.

But bomb S31 so that top brass (including the doves) gets summoned, then eliminate that top brass save for a sucker who gets his motivation from the deaths, and you have a controllable chain of events...

Yes he got injured in that attack but Khan was skillful enough to kill everyone but him.

Indeed, Khan chose weapons that could wound, when he would certainly have had access to ones that would have guaranteed a kill. Perhaps Marcus' wounding was a nasty extra element not agreed upon - and also something that Marcus would accept as the nastiest bit of rebellion Khan would dare pull off when Marcus still had his crew by the short and sensitives. Essentially, Marcus would feel more confident and relaxed now that Khan had made him bleed!

It was a setup and that's my opinion. Also the transwarp transporter. Starfleet confisicated that from Scotty and Section 31 turned it into a portable device. Khan had to get his hands on that device and Marcus let him.

...For all we know, the thing doesn't even work (which would be nice for future plots), and Khan flew to Qo'noS by conventional means!

This is just all my personal opinion, the movie doesn't say either way if they had planned this together or not..

The one major argument for the preplanning theory is that neither of the villains would have come as close to their personal goal as they did unless they indeed cooperated. But it's certainly open to many interpretations.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Crazy Eddie]

This really bugs me.

That exact time the warp drive goes off line throwing the Enterprise back into normal space.

Who, what or how did they manage to sabotage it at that particular point near Quon'os?

Probably Ben Finney.

They just haven't caught him yet.

Also yeah I still think he knew Khan did the bombing and had approved it, also the attack on Starfleet headquarters, though maybe that wasn't the brightest thing do do. But I think he had a hand in both.

I'm 99% convinced of this myself. Khan had been planning this operation, he wouldn't have gotten Tom Harwood to blow himself up, he would have promised to save his daughter in exchange for access codes and information on how to take control of Section 31's computers and outmaneuver Marcus directly. Turning him into a bomb expends his usefulness, which would be a tactical error if Khan actually NEEDED him for anything.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Howcome they have never been disbanded if they are illegal?

Same reason the Mafia was never disbanded. Though not, it seems, for lack of trying.

 

[The Wormhole]

That works for me too.

But what did they do when WW III broke out?

And First Contact with the Vulcans

Author Dayton Ward has indicated he has plans for a sequel, so maybe we might find out in a few years.

 

[Longinus]

This thread certainly reflects my impression of the film. Things happen, there is no rhyme or reason to it. Motivations of characters are left unclear. This certainly is a valiant effort to make sense of it, but I don't think the people who made this film thought about it.

 

[Amaris]

This thread certainly reflects my impression of the film. Things happen, there is no rhyme or reason for it. Motivations of characters are left unclear. This certainly is a valiant effort to make sense of it, but I don't think the people who made this film thought about it.

Of course they thought about it, that's silly. Why do people say things like that? Whether you like the film or not, I have no doubt the writers put a lot of effort into it, J.J. put a great deal of his own blood and sweat into it, and the actors gave it their all. Productions like these don't lazy together, they require lots of hard work, and from the writer to the storyboard artist to the actors, directors, and producers, it took a team who felt this was a good story, that had something to contribute.

It seems most people thoroughly enjoyed the film, if the critical reviews are any indication. It's not going to be everyone's cup of tea, sure, but to outright accuse it of lazy thinking when it's clear a lot of hard work and effort went into the film, just insults everyone.

 

[Longinus]

Either they didn't think about it, or it is written poorly as these things were not communicated to the viewers. And as you said, most people seemed to like film, so why put effort in it if the audience doesn't care anyway?

 

[Amaris]

Either they didn't think about it, or it is written poorly as these things were not communicated to the viewers. And as you said, most people seemed to like film, so why put effort in it if the audience doesn't care anyway?

The audience did care. I love the film, and I most certainly cared. For me, it was some of the best Star Trek since Kirk and Spock first stepped onto the screen in the 1960s. You just automatically disregard the opinions of millions of people who loved the film, in order to make an absurd point that they put no effort into the story. You're free to have that belief, but don't expect to be taken at all seriously when you have later criticisms.

It's far, far too easy to just take someone's hard work and say "it's shit," because we've became spoiled consumers who have way too much to choose from, and this entitled opinion that it's either our way or the highway. How silly, and how blatantly disrespectful to the people who work their asses off to bring you entertainment in the hopes that you'll enjoy it.

 

[Longinus]

People are arguing about plans and motivations of Marcus and Khan in this thread. That stuff was not clearly communicated in the movie, either intentionally or accidentally. Whether that makes the film 'shit' or not, it is matter of personal judgement.

 

[Amaris]

People are arguing about plans and motivations of Marcus and Khan in this thread. That stuff was not clearly communicated in the movie, either intentionally or accidentally. Whether that makes the film 'shit' or not, it is matter of personal judgement.

I understood it just fine. Perhaps you simply missed it. Personal opinion on your enjoyment (or lack of) regarding the movie is indeed your own judgment to make. Insisting that no one put any thought into the film, however, is a judgment call on someone else. One that will need to be backed up, or seen as the empty statement it is. "The sky is pretty" is a personal opinion. "The sky is made of cheese" is not.

 

[Ovation]

But it is made of cheese. Blue cheese.

 

[Longinus]

I understood it just fine. Perhaps you simply missed it. Personal opinion on your enjoyment (or lack of) regarding the movie is indeed your own judgment to make. Insisting that no one put any thought into the film, however, is a judgment call on someone else. One that will need to be backed up, or seen as the empty statement it is. "The sky is pretty" is a personal opinion. "The sky is made of cheese" is not.

It was more like "This car has no seatbelts, so the designers probably didn't care too much about safety."

 

[Amaris]

It was more like "This car has no seatbelts, so the designers probably didn't care too much about safety."

Again, a judgment call that has no relevance here. You assume there are no seat belts, but if you'd look closely, you'll see they're just off to the side where they've always been. It's not the manufacturer's fault you didn't pay attention.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

This thread certainly reflects my impression of the film. Things happen, there is no rhyme or reason to it. Motivations of characters are left unclear. This certainly is a valiant effort to make sense of it, but I don't think the people who made this film thought about it.

Either they didn't think about it, or it is written poorly as these things were not communicated to the viewers. And as you said, most people seemed to like film, so why put effort in it if the audience doesn't care anyway?

People are arguing about plans and motivations of Marcus and Khan in this thread. That stuff was not clearly communicated in the movie, either intentionally or accidentally. Whether that makes the film 'shit' or not, it is matter of personal judgement.

People are still arguing the intricacies of plotlines from 50 year old TOS episodes. People come up with new ideas for films and episodes with the least complicated or the most intricately plotted and explained stories imaginable. We're still arguing plotlines of a movie that came out three years ago and has been debated endlessly ever since. The continuing presence of speculation and alternate theories has zero bearing on the amount of thought that originally went into the plot, and whether you like the finished product or not, I've seen no evidence that there was little thought given to plotting out STiD. Fandom just likes to come up with new and alternate theories and argue about them. It's one of our more endearing qualities, not something to be looked down upon or used as a bludgeon to accuse the writers of the film of laziness or carelessness.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Yes to clarify I DO LIKE Star Trek Into Darkness......

I was just talking about a personal fan theory of my own while watching this movie.

I wasn't attacking the writers or any of the creative minds behind the film.