CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[muCephi]

If I recall correctly, everyone was sent an e-mail about coordinating the multiple donations. But not everyone actually did anything about it after getting it. (I know I ignored it for at least a month or two because I also knew I wasn't due anything yet) And I know that not everyone uses Facebook. I know two donors that will never touch it and at least one other that wishes they never touched Facebook, and that's just my small circle of known people.

It also could show up easily under junk mail, at which point, well, it is not entirely Axanar's fault the donor didn't get the message. Especially if the only ways to get in contact with the donor is effectively e-mail.

Tiny reminder post cards like what the dentists use to put out can be lost in the mail or overlooked just as easily.

The question would be how many people are still waiting on their perks? Is it as low as 1%? 5%?

Fair enough. Its second guessing history now to say they could have put details in your email such as what you may be due already/when, or the things I suggested, or that they didn't have to have it require you to use Facebook to respond (I think that's what you're saying), which of course kills half your responses before you are out the gate.

So much about achieving a successful user interaction to an email outreach revolves around anticipating and overcoming potential problems/points of resistance to taking action. If they weren't too effective, and really needed to resolve matters, they could up their game if they wanted.

Some spam bucketing might happen, but one could tailor the email title/content in advance to reduce this risk. And if the emails are the fundraiser company signup emails (probably are), then the user would have unblocked those anyway.

You ask the right question about the scale of the problem, but I suppose that is purely their business and all outsiders might do is note that there seem to be people publicly saying they aren't getting their stuff. By themselves, anecdotal reports doesn't say much about the scale of the issue until the reports become significant.

The report from the perks coordinator that 10k patches haven't shipped yet I think is what has got people's attention, meta to whether the list is clean.

So if the problems with ambiguities in the orders are cleansed the next step IMO could be to allow any folks who have an unfulfilled, available perk to get it without shipping penalty as an accommodation for the delay. High PR value for relatively low eat-the-shipping cost, perhaps.

If they send any due perks, that's one less thing donors can be pissed about.

 

[muCephi]

It sounds like, from his own description, his work was giving notes, not actually writing. I doubt his contract covers offering an opinion or help to someone else.

You might be surprised... when someone says their contract says "all thoughts", how close to the actual wording that paraphrasing can be. Years ago, IBM claimed ownership over any IP conceived by a contractor on or off the jobsite which could be related to work or even the general (not just proprietary) technologies used on the jobsite. If you used computers on the jobsite (of course), basically "all your thoughts involving computers are belong to us". Of course it might not be enforceable, but sign or walk.

 

[Ithekro]

Fair enough. Its second guessing history now to say they could have put details in your email such as what you may be due already/when, or the things I suggested, or that they didn't have to have it require you to use Facebook to respond (I think that's what you're saying), which of course kills half your responses before you are out the gate.

So much about achieving a successful user interaction to an email outreach revolves around anticipating and overcoming potential problems/points of resistance to taking action. If they weren't too effective, and really needed to resolve matters, they could up their game if they wanted.

Some spam bucketing might happen, but one could tailor the email title/content in advance to reduce this risk. And if the emails are the fundraiser company signup emails (probably are), then the user would have unblocked those anyway.

You ask the right question about the scale of the problem, but I suppose that is purely their business and all outsiders might do is note that there seem to be people publicly saying they aren't getting their stuff. By themselves, anecdotal reports doesn't say much about the scale of the issue until the reports become significant.

If the problems with ambiguities in the orders are cleansed the next step IMO could be to allow any folks who have an unfulfilled, available perk to get it without shipping penalty as an accommodation for the delay. High PR value for relatively low eat-the-shipping cost, perhaps.

If they send any due perks, that's one less thing donors can be pissed about.

I only know a few people who donated personally. Of them only two had problems with things being late (myself included, but I was keeping myself informed and knew why there was a delay). Both issues were resolved as soon as the late coming item was in stock (In his case the CD soundtrack. In mine the DVD of Prelude). I am still due stuff, but it is only stuff that does not yet exist, such as the Axanar BD. I have the patches I'm due, as does everyone else I know personally who donated. Once things were in stock, I had no issues with Axanar's fulfillment procedures. They were timely with sending out items due once they had them in stock from all personally known accounts.

 

[muCephi]

I only know a few people who donated personally. Of them only two had problems with things being late (myself included, but I was keeping myself informed and knew why there was a delay). Both issues were resolved as soon as the late coming item was in stock (In his case the CD soundtrack. In mine the DVD of Prelude). I am still due stuff, but it is only stuff that does not yet exist, such as the Axanar BD. I have the patches I'm due, as does everyone else I know personally who donated. Once things were in stock, I had no issues with Axanar's fulfillment procedures. They were timely with sending out items due once they had them in stock from all personally known accounts.

Thanks for that info. I wonder why in December they said they had 10k patches still to ship for the Kickstarters, and hadn't yet even made the ones for Indiegogo. And donor complaints on Facebook (admittedly unquantified from anything I have seen). Did they get all those patches out the door? If so, I want to say great, unless to do so would be to get in deeper with IP violation/benefitting, and they have to sit on it, in which case IMO I guess they should tell donors that. Could affect any possibility of donor lawsuit downstream to be obviously remiss.

 

[Professor Zoom]

You might be surprised... when someone says their contract says "all thoughts", how close to the actual wording that paraphrasing can be. Years ago, IBM claimed ownership over any IP conceived by a contractor on or off the jobsite which could be related to work or even the general (not just proprietary) technologies used on the jobsite. If you used computers on the jobsite (of course), basically "all your thoughts involving computers are belong to us". Of course it might not be enforceable, but sign or walk.

I'm not surprised by that. Not at all. But conceiving is not the same as giving notes on someone else's conception. That's why there would be no violation of the contract.

 

[HIjol]

For that matter aren't the smart productions heading north where it's cheaper to film?

Go South!!!...they will never expect that, and there is no extradi...oh, oops!...sorry, thought this was the "Legal Defense Strategy" thread...

 

[SeerSGB]

Go South!!!...they will never expect that, and there is no extradi...oh, oops!...sorry, thought this was the "Legal Defense Strategy" thread...

I think the defense strategy is to build a pillow fort and hang a sign outside it that says "No haters allowed!" Of course they'll need a kickstarter for it before they.

 

[RedForman]

I think the defense strategy is to build a pillow fort and hang a sign outside it that says "No haters allowed!" Of course they'll need a kickstarter for it before they.

Reminds me of Ralphie & Scott Farcas(sp?) from "A Christmas Story" for some reason........

 

[BoredShipCapt'n]

Reminds me of Ralphie & Scott Farcas(sp?) from "A Christmas Story" for some reason........

Wouldn't surprise me if AP had yellow eyes.

 

[JWPlatt]

I never said what your insinuating with your straw man argument, so "sounds like" and "sour grapes" are baseless suppositions.

I want to share that for my part I only read the response to your post as an amplification to your post, not an insinuation that your attitude is sour grapes. The sour grapes part to me was just how it feels to see people violate one's standards, for anyone. Not speaking for OP but fwiw.

Yes. I was speaking to the issue and the thread - not the post I quoted. To extrapolate my point a little bit further, don't expect the target of this thread's venom to change no matter how hard you try to beat him down. I use post quotes to speak to a point and the thread - not the person. I've found some people think I expect them to reply when I quote them, as if it's a personal message. While a reply is welcome, they are mistaken that I expect one.

 

[trynda1701]

I find it intriguing that even though the lawsuit is against Axanar Productions AND Peters personally, all the back and forth with the Motions to Dismiss seem to mainly apply to what Axanar has done. Nothing seems to apply to Peters specifically. Or am I missing something?

 

[Noname Given]

This sounds like a discussion about politicians, and they are generally good at what they do. We don't like fat cats because we don't do the things they are willing to do to have more money, toys, and women (or men) than us. Sour grapes, sort of. We call it self-respect, and they find that hilarious.

Bad analogy in that when a politician does something blatantly illegal (as Alec Peters has done with using the Star Trek IP to fund a startup business, as well as sell merchandise like Coffee, models, etc. ALL unlicensed and WITHOUT the consent of CBS/Paramount); they are usually impeached and removed from office and may face further legal penalties after that.

In continuing with your analogy this thread (and our discussion) started at the 'impeachment' phase - and when that happens to a politician - discussing his past behaviour or his actions that lead to this is HARDLY 'sour grapes'.

I only know a few people who donated personally. Of them only two had problems with things being late (myself included, but I was keeping myself informed and knew why there was a delay). Both issues were resolved as soon as the late coming item was in stock (In his case the CD soundtrack. In mine the DVD of Prelude). I am still due stuff, but it is only stuff that does not yet exist, such as the Axanar BD. I have the patches I'm due, as does everyone else I know personally who donated. Once things were in stock, I had no issues with Axanar's fulfillment procedures. They were timely with sending out items due once they had them in stock from all personally known accounts.

I don't have ANY of the Patches that were due to me from my pledge level of the first Axanar KS (Like you I do understand they can't - and most likely never will - deliver the BD of 'Axanar' ) - but beyond the electronic PDFs, I've received nothing physical, nor ANY e-mail from them explaining the delay.

 

[JWPlatt]

...when a politician does something blatantly illegal ... they are usually impeached and removed from office and may face further legal penalties after that...

Hahaha, yeah, when they are caught AND in the rare case where prosecution AND a real sentence or consequence is not escaped. Shall we invoke the tip of the iceberg analogy?

As far as calling this thread an impeachment, as if it were an official entity, [more laughter]. How grandiose. My thoughts about that are already stated: It's a self-important and growth industry built upon the very subject it despises. For 810 pages now, Alec Peters controls your destiny and every heartbeat spent and wasted here posting about him. The insidious power you've given him over your lives by spending time on it is astonishing.

 

[Michael Hinman]

I find it intriguing that even though the lawsuit is against Axanar Productions AND Peters personally, all the back and forth with the Motions to Dismiss seem to mainly apply to what Axanar has done. Nothing seems to apply to Peters specifically. Or am I missing something?

The two are tied together, as Peters is being lumped into the actions of Axanar.

 

[Amaris]

@Michael Hinman : I couldn't help but laugh at the comments section of the article. Here we have Dave Galanter explaining exactly what happened behind the scenes, and the pro-Axa drones come right in and start calling it a hit piece full of bias and slander.

 

[muCephi]

For 810 pages now, Alec Peters controls your destiny and every heart beat spent and wasted here posting about him. The power you've given him over your lives by spending time on it is astonishing.

If Alec controls this and its a waste to post here, how would that square with this thread piquing my interest enough to find an email online from the game piece maker, listening enough to a podcast to catch explicit statements by Alec about the game piece project, posting both of those a while ago here, and now putting them together as another potential example of manipulating a 3d party vendor alongside the just publicised "use a pseudonym" suggestion?

If Alec controlled me and I was just wasting time here, that wouldn't have happened. Adding a concrete example which changes a one off report into a potentially documentable indicator of intent to infringe for resale may materially advance the C/P case. (would they have found the email or the blog comment and put them together?)

I think it is inaccurate to make a blanket assertion that this thread is just playing into his hands. Here is a concrete example for you to consider.

 

[JWPlatt]

I think it is inaccurate to make a blanket assertion that this thread is just playing into his hands.

Yes, it would be inaccurate; that's not my claim.

 

[carlosp]

I only know a few people who donated personally. Of them only two had problems with things being late (myself included, but I was keeping myself informed and knew why there was a delay). Both issues were resolved as soon as the late coming item was in stock (In his case the CD soundtrack. In mine the DVD of Prelude). I am still due stuff, but it is only stuff that does not yet exist, such as the Axanar BD. I have the patches I'm due, as does everyone else I know personally who donated. Once things were in stock, I had no issues with Axanar's fulfillment procedures. They were timely with sending out items due once they had them in stock from all personally known accounts.

I think it's important to note that we have three separate sets of perks at issue here, plus Donor Store merchandise. It's easy to conflate them because so many of the products in each set are the same:

• Prelude Kickstarter rewards. As I note in my analysis on AxaMonitor, these have substantially been fulfilled. So when you say you got the patches you were due, those must surely be Prelude-related patches. Why do I say this so confidently?
• Because Axanar admits no physical Kickstarter rewards have shipped from the Axanar Kickstarter. Most of my analysis centers on the physical perks associated with this Kickstarter campaign because the spending reported in the annual report is explicitly tied to this set of rewards. Did the patches produced to fulfill this campaign really cost $25K+, plus up to $12K more in supplies? And if none have shipped yet, why claim to have spent so much on shipping and supplies? My conclusion is that money was indeed spent on perks and shipping, not of Kickstarter rewards, but of …
• Donor Store merchandise. Those products are indeed being fulfilled because each order includes money for shipping and handling, unlike the crowdfunding perks where the shipping has to come out of the same pool of funds Axanar has already collected, and they're trying to keep shipping costs down by waiting until they can fulfill each donor's set of perks once instead of escalating expenses by parceling them out.
• Indiegogo perks. Axanar says none have been made and shipped, other than the two prototype patches they are selling off in the Donor Store.

The Donor Store emerges from this as a continuing stream of new revenue with shipping included, while crowdfunding perks have moved into the liability column, something Axanar has to pay out of its own pocket to produce and ship. They benefit most by keeping their cash outlay for fulfillment as low as possible, so donors are kept waiting while Donor Store customers get the priority.

 

[OtherGene]

so donors are kept waiting while Donor Store customers get the priority.

I think that's astonishing. I can't even right now, as they say. All cons go where the money is and in this case that's what they appear to be doing. The first party, those that have donated, they're done with them as they have their cash already. The second party, those that are spending in the Store, they have the focus as that's where the next amount of cash is coming from.

If this was from an episode of the BBC show 'Hustle' starring Adrian Lester I would turn it off at such a far-fetched and ludicrous storyline.

 

[Noname Given]

Hahaha, yeah, when they are caught AND in the rare case where prosecution AND a real sentence or consequence is not escaped. Shall we invoke the tip of the iceberg analogy?

As far as calling this thread an impeachment, as if it were an official entity, [more laughter]. How grandiose. My thoughts about that are already stated: It's a self-important and growth industry built upon the very subject it despises. For 810 pages now, Alec Peters controls your destiny and every heartbeat spent and wasted here posting about him. The insidious power you've given him over your lives by spending time on it is astonishing.

So, by discussing a situation, you feel we give 'power' to the person being discussed? Lol - that's a new one. If that's how you really view discussions, you must not like to discuss much.

In the end, what's going to happen will happen. The fact I'm talking about it gives no one any 'power' over me. In the end at worst I'm out $75 - but I knew that was a risk when I made the Pledge (ANY Kick Starter project has a risk of not following through) - so there's no 'control' or 'power' involved here. I participate in this particular discussion because I find it interesting - nothing more - nothing less.