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Fear the Walking Dead Season 2 discussion and spoilers.

Only three more episodes? I thought someone said they were getting a lot more this season than last.

hmmm, imdb indicates 15 episodes for the season, guess they are going to break after #7 and have the other eight be season 2.5

I looked at the ratings, and they'd be smart to break at this point because Game of Thrones is sucking away the audience. A little hindsight on what time slot you'd think have been used since G o T return was no surprise.

I loved last nights episode and Strand being gay came as a huge surprise to me. Didn't see that coming. You have to wonder since they are developing the characters backstories if Strand is simply using that man because he went bankrupt or if he really cares for him?
 
I like this episode so far. My favorite so far in this season. Luis joins the Abigail crew and will certainly ally himself with Strand in any future conflict among the crew. I cannnt wait for the eventual rescue of Travis and Alicia. Madison and Alicia will perhaps learn to stop trying to rescue everyone they meet after this. Strand in an interracial gay relationship will certainly spice up the show now. This episode promises more interesting things to come for the season.

Salazar should do the things that he did to the soldier in the last season, to those pirate scum if he catches them.
 
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Best episode of the second season so far. Some good drama and action, some much needed and interesting backstory for Strand, and Nick is quickly developing into a favorite character.

I was expecting Strand's connection in Baja to be a little more sinister than a shady real estate mogul, though given that he sort of blackmailed —albeit nicely— Strand into working for him instead of calling the cops and has a seemingly trained sniper as his BFF/employee (unless it's just another example of the Walking Dead's franchise's "everyone's a natural sharpshooter" syndrome), maybe there's still more than meets the eye there. Plus, Dougray Scott frequently plays good villains that elevate the surrounding source material, so I'd like to see him do that here. Clearly they didn't expect anyone other than Strand and one guest to need to be shipped north, so there's bound to be some friction there.

It was pretty stupid for the survivors to wait until more reinforcements had arrived to make their move, since they outnumbered the three-person boarding party and one was eight-months pregnant and the other was established to not have the same killer instinct the lead boarder did. I guess they had to advance the plot with Travis being taken in some way and needing rescuing, but it felt a bit like TNG Rascals with the Enterprise being taken over by six Ferengi just so we could get the set-up for the kids taking back the ship (this was not nearly that bad in terms of execution, though).

Madison can play some pretty hardcore mindgames when she has to, although if she doesn't use it to grab the gun when the pregnant lady got upset and got too close, then what's the point? If you're not going to use the taunting to make a move, you're just tempting fate and risking being shot in the face, or having one of the kids shot instead as payback.
 
Best episode of the second season so far. Some good drama and action, some much needed and interesting backstory for Strand, and Nick is quickly developing into a favorite character.

I shall offer the following contrasting opinion: I'm done. I'm out. I'm not subjecting myself to this nonsense anymore.

Not only did the ship finally get jacked because of what one of the stupid teenagers did, it got jacked by more stupid teenagers because another stupid teenager just stood there asking "Should I shoot? Should I shoot?" [Lucy]Yes, you blockhead![/Lucy] And It looks like the writers want to set up a Romeo/Juliet love-in between the first stupid teenager and one of the teenage jackers.

I can't anymore. It would have been nice to see how Strand's story after avoiding the jacking shakes out, but I'm not sitting through another round of Archie and the Gang meet the Zombie Apocalypse to do it. I gotta start watching Game of Thrones or something...
 
Well that was an episode jam-packed full of dumb as shit juice. What the hell motivated Strand to run? We've seen absolutely nothing that would suggest he's a monumental coward who would try to escape. That just seemed to come out of nowhere.

Who were the people that attacked the boat? At first, I thought they were supposed to be the guys who the daughter had been speaking to on the radio but she (and they) behaved like they had an actual established relationship (rather than just a couple of random, meaningless hours on a radio). So who were they? If it was supposed to be them then why the fuck was the daughter acting like she'd met her long lost prince? Terrible.

Strand's flashbacks. No, just stop that. This isn't fucking Lost.

Bizarre, slightly annoying episode. Melodrama in lieu of common sense. The new character looks like a good addition though.
 
He rescued them. He expected civil, grateful behavior in return--not being forced to isolate himself. The Travis group burned that expectation.

He was never forced to isolate himself. He chose to do so. And that choice clearly started before he'd even met most of them.

There's no gratitude in demanding to take on new burdens (passengers), including one likely to be a walker. There's no gratitude in forcing suicide family's kids on the boat.

Saying that gratitude should automatically override a person's basic instincts of human decency is basically arguing for a Maffia system of human relations.

There's no gratitude in breaking into the captain's personal storage.
...and above all else..
There's no gratitude in Madison threatening to kill the man who saved the Travis group.

We've already established that Daniel is more paranoid than he rightfully should be, but he isn't even remotely indicative of the rest of the group as a whole. And Madison still had very good reason at that point to be suspicious of Strand.

Take your own advice, since the "he should have learned to fix the boat" was another pointless, cheap attack on Strand in order to defend that Mount Rushmore of FTWD characters best known for accepting torture and mass murder as heroic deeds.

The point was never to defend anyone else. The point is that Strand is no more logical than the rest of them. He had time on his hands, he could've put it to good use, but did not. He then proceeded to actively antagonize the person who actually did make use of that time when he should've let him get on with fixing the boat.

Controlling the ship is not just watching instruments, and in case you forgot, his new duty is watching out for the mystery boat likely drawn to his location thanks to the "I need attention" BS of Alicia. But, please. continue to suggest you have nothing against Strand.

Watching instruments. Like I said. I've worked jobs like that, you have plenty of time on your hands.

There you have it, and again, all talk of "contribution" go out of the window if Strand had not saved them all.

And the exact same goes for Strand. Once again, this isn't about anyone being better. They're all in the same boat.


What was their plan after the army/med base? Did they have shelter? No. Did they have a means of escape that would not drive them into the heart of a city overrun by the dead and live threats? No.

The only bullshit is the continued disregarding of Strand being the one and only reason this group survived L.A.

They had a car. They could've gone anywhere. They chose to go with Strand because he said he had someplace safe, but that doesn't even remotely mean they were doomed if they had gone a different direction.


By threatening to murder the captain...break into his storage..try to force others aboard his boat....that's the way the Travis group finds a way.

And Strand finds a way by obsessively keeping secrets from everyone, acting like a dictator, forcing everyone to abandon their principles without ever once attempting to engage them as people and have a serious and clear conversation about the world and why they need to do what he says. See, all in the same boat.



Argue with the series, which was not ambiguous regarding the security of the farm lasting until that shot. The episode clearly shows the herd changing their direction--which was the point of drawing the farm plot to a close. Up to that time, being near Atlanta did not send herds to the farm's direction, or did anyone mention such threats. So, your conjecture is without merit.

No, they just had their numbers significantly cut down by zombies (including Deanna, Jesse, Sam, et al.) and the Wolves' attack. all within their walls.

Oh, these two claims back to back are absolutely hilarious. Atlanta couldn't possibly ever form a danger to the farm because the series 'unambiguously' showed it as safe ( which really just means that for a grand total of a few months, nothing major happened), but Alexandria is somehow worse off for taking people in even though the series repeatedly and explicitly claimed they would've been completely wiped out if it wasn't for Rick's group?

So once again, the takeaway is Strand is stupid & unreasonable, while the Travis group--all of their own choice since setting foot on the boat tried to create a "workable group dynamic" by:

  • demanding he take on new burdens (passengers), including one likely to be a walker. Who was going to watch him? If he was dying, what's the point of dragging a potential threat aboard?
  • attempting to force suicide family's kids on the boat.
  • broke into the captain's personal storage.
  • threaten to kill the man who saved their lives.
Yeah, Strand has so much to work with, and expect from this group.

Nope, the takeaway is EVERYONE, including Strand has done really stupid things, many of those stupid things are daisy-chaining off one another repeatedly making the whole group dynamic worse, and if any of them expect to survive they all need to get over themselves and work together. And as of last week's episode, Strand is being the biggest obstacle to that simply because he refuses to engage with anyone. (Daniel being the second biggest obstacle because of his paranoia).

On to the new episode:

Alicia has officially reclaimed the title of current dumbest character on the show. For a few moments there she seemed to have the perfect opportunity to finally grow up, but, apparently, she still believes this guy for no logical reason whatsoever.

Strand being literally the last person to respond is so stupid it totally breaks the believability of the story - and before anyone gets upset, I'm not blaming Strand at all. That's just plain terrible writing that a man with that character and obsession (who was already awake before the incident started) would react so slowly. Seems like the writers just had to get Strand off the boat for the episode and didn't give a damn that their explanation made no sense for the character whatsoever.

Most of the other characters showed some good growth. Chris' hesitation was disastrous but understandable in the situation, and from the look on his face he seems to have actually learned his lesson now, unlike Alicia. Madison and Daniel probably should've tried a little earlier, but for their very first time having to break out of a hostage situation, that was actually pretty decent. Travis' stalling was very well done, and far gutsier than I thought he would be.

The flashbacks are a weird thing to use in a show like this, but they did take Strand's character in an interesting direction. Never occurred to me that he might be BOTH a con-man and actually legitimate. Though I did assume his need to get to mexico might have something to do with family or spouse. And his ultimate secret was about what I expected: his plan specifically called for him to abandon everyone. Which also explains why he isolated himself so much. But, given that Luis seemed at least open to the possibility of trying to get more people through, there is perhaps some hope (though I foresee lots of arguing about whether they should rescue Travis and Alicia or not).

Two things I really didn't understand:

Why send Nick to pick up Luis? Weren't they communicating via radio? Why didn't Luis just come out by himself?

And what on earth is going on with Mexico that it's 'impossible' to get more than two people in? Do they actually still have a military that's patrolling the borders? Is their 'safe house' surrounded by a massive zombie hoarde? That part really doesn't make sense.
 
Saying that gratitude should automatically override a person's basic instincts of human decency is basically arguing for a Maffia system of human relations.

Oh, you mean like:
  1. Madison trying to force Strand to violate his free will and property to use in whatever way she desires. Check.
  2. Madison threatening to murder Strand because of some nonexistent threat, or whatever comes to mind. Check.
  3. Travis' expressed desire to murder Strand for much of the same reasons. Check.
  4. Accepting and/or participating in torture (soldier) and mass murder (releasing the stadium walkers) with no concern for the innocent caught in the path of their self-interests. Check.
Yes, the Mafia system is at work--in the minds and actions of the Travis group.


And Madison still had very good reason at that point to be suspicious of Strand.

She had no business threatening his life.

The point was never to defend anyone else. The point is that Strand is no more logical than the rest of them. He had time on his hands, he could've put it to good use, but did not. He then proceeded to actively antagonize the person who actually did make use of that time when he should've let him get on with fixing the boat.

Strand was frustrated with people who constantly violated his authority, property, openly fighting against him from the moment he saved them...but yeah, the Travis group did not bring any of their pain on themselves.


They had a car. They could've gone anywhere. They chose to go with Strand because he said he had someplace safe, but that doesn't even remotely mean they were doomed if they had gone a different direction.

They had nowhere to go, otherwise this crack team would have explored that plan. ..and just so you know, accepting help did not give them to right to disrespect him, spy on him and threaten his life.


And Strand finds a way by obsessively keeping secrets from everyone, acting like a dictator, forcing everyone to abandon their principles without ever once attempting to engage them as people and have a serious and clear conversation about the world and why they need to do what he says. See, all in the same boat.

Wrong, and as of the latest episode, Luis saying the voyage goes nowhere without Strand utterly sweeps away (along with all arguments already presented) the Travis group's violent, ungrateful bullshit since they met Strand. They survive only because of Strand. The only option is...nothing...or getting kidnapped. I guess that's an option.

This is the contribution from the Travis group:

  1. Contact strangers by radio, and giving key details about the boat, destination, etc.
  2. Habitually threaten to murder the captain.
  3. Because they disrespect Strand as captain, and his property, they his ammunition (yeah, because HE was the threat...), allowed a violent gang to board the boat, with the end result of this idiocy being the kidnapping of Travis and Alicia.
I'm waiting for the part when the Travis group actually prove their value.


Oh, these two claims back to back are absolutely hilarious. Atlanta couldn't possibly ever form a danger to the farm because the series 'unambiguously' showed it as safe ( which really just means that for a grand total of a few months, nothing major happened)

I'm addressing what was presented in the episodes, not your wish/theory. The farm was safe until that shot. There's no debating that. Even Grady Memorial--in the very heart of Atlanta was not overrun by walkers, who routinely saw the movement of the police in and around the property.

but Alexandria is somehow worse off for taking people in even though the series repeatedly and explicitly claimed they would've been completely wiped out if it wasn't for Rick's group?

How many native Alexandrians were present when the community was introduced in season 5?
How many are still alive?
How much of their season-and-a-half of mass redshirting was directly caused or influenced by Rick's group?[/quote]
 
I shall offer the following contrasting opinion: I'm done. I'm out. I'm not subjecting myself to this nonsense anymore.

Interesting. You're not the only WD i've heard express those same sentiments.

Not only did the ship finally get jacked because of what one of the stupid teenagers did, it got jacked by more stupid teenagers because another stupid teenager just stood there asking "Should I shoot? Should I shoot?" [Lucy]Yes, you blockhead![/Lucy] And It looks like the writers want to set up a Romeo/Juliet love-in between the first stupid teenager and one of the teenage jackers.

Honestly, after the danger and disaster this group has created, who can root for them? They are in Shane territory, now where they will do or say anything--morality, reason and safety be damned.



Well that was an episode jam-packed full of dumb as shit juice. What the hell motivated Strand to run? We've seen absolutely nothing that would suggest he's a monumental coward who would try to escape. That just seemed to come out of nowhere.

Yes, that was out of nowhere, but I think it was (more than any other possible reason) to give Madison a "humanizing" moment to be the one to retrieve him, as if that changes all of her bad actions and decisions.

Bizarre, slightly annoying episode. Melodrama in lieu of common sense. The new character looks like a good addition though.

Which new character? Luis, Abigail or the leader of the hijackers, Connor?
 
Luis.

I still find the whole idea of killer pirates hugely unrealistic. A month ago, these people were going to work and watching Frozen but now they're actively seeking out people to murder. Why do you even want their boat? Surely food and working out what has happened would be the priority this early into the zombie apocalypse.

That's part of the problem with FTWD; too many people are behaving like this is their second or third apocalypse. Madison already seems to know what Rick's group had to go to the CDC to find out.
 
Luis.

I still find the whole idea of killer pirates hugely unrealistic.

I don't find it that unbelievable that there would be arseholes out there who were just waiting for something like this to go down so they could take advantage. Sure, they probably weren't expecting zombies, but there are enough of psychopaths, sociopaths, crazy preppers, and people with short-man syndrome in this world that it is believable enough that some of them would immediately start fucking people over the second they got a chance.

Hell, some horrible shit goes down in corners of the planet as it is now. Is it really much of a stretch that a lot of supposedly civilised people would join in once the cops and other authority figures are out of the way?
 
Luis.

I still find the whole idea of killer pirates hugely unrealistic. A month ago, these people were going to work and watching Frozen but now they're actively seeking out people to murder. Why do you even want their boat? Surely food and working out what has happened would be the priority this early into the zombie apocalypse.

That's part of the problem with FTWD; too many people are behaving like this is their second or third apocalypse. Madison already seems to know what Rick's group had to go to the CDC to find out.

She does. The doctor at the military hospital told her the dead reanimate even without being bitten.
 
I don't find it that unbelievable that there would be arseholes out there who were just waiting for something like this to go down so they could take advantage.
I find it unbelievable that they apparently only want the boat because it is, in fact, a yacht. As if there aren't any number of them just floating around the nearest harbour for those who couldn't make it to them in time, or the equally countless number of them that are out and about for those who did make it to one. But, apparently, our "heroes" are the only ones who have one, even though I'm pretty sure we saw a score of them in the background when they were first clambering onboard in the premiere.

Add on to that the fact that they clearly had a ridiculously elaborate trap set up via the radio, their approach out of nowhere literally did come from out of nowhere (do they have some super radar system on their boat? and why didn't Strand pick them up on his radar as they did approach), and way too many other things to list here. Altogether, it's just a really frustrating story to keep up with. It basically relies on handwave after handwave after handwave, with a healthy dose of random character reactions for good measure.

While there was some of that to a degree in The Walking Dead, it was nothing like this. Hell, in the first season of The Walking Dead the zombies were even able to jog if not run, yet all of the zombies we see in this show are of the slow, shuffling variety from later seasons... even on day one of the outbreak. Which just goes to show the mindset of the writers and production crew.

Although it's clearly supposed to be a prequel of sorts, the writers are approaching it more like it's a sequel, complete with scores of people who have unreasonably (key word, despite protests to the contrary) already adapted to the apocalypse in a nearly Governor/Negan sort of way, as evidenced by Connor and their crazy hunting technique.

And all at a time in the apocalypse where there's tons of things available to scavenge without having to hunt other human beings.

It really is a problem with the storytelling, no matter how much the naysayers claim otherwise.
 
^^oh sure... a few of them.. During Rick's trip into the city. They were still in that "early" phase of transition where they could almost climb ladders and manipulate door knobs.

It's easy to chalk that up to them being "fresh" zombies, but I think the reality is that they producers/director were still trying to feel their way around how a Walker is supposed to act and what they can and can't do.
 
I find it unbelievable that they apparently only want the boat because it is, in fact, a yacht.

It clearly wasn't just about that though, as they took people too. Sure, it may be easier to steal a docked yacht, but it's not guaranteed to have anything on board, whereas a boat full of people trying to survive will likely have supplies too. People can be exploited or killed, and supplies can be appropriated, as long as you have the bigger stick and the will to use it. This Connor guy has probably manipulated or intimidated people into following him, which is really the only form of power in a crumbling society. It's easy to manipulate people into joining you if you appear to give them a purpose when everything else is going to shit, and if that doesn't work you can always stick a gun in their face and make them do it. That's how a Woodbury gets started. That's how people like Negan build an army.
 
It clearly wasn't just about that though, as they took people too. Sure, it may be easier to steal a docked yacht, but it's not guaranteed to have anything on board, whereas a boat full of people trying to survive will likely have supplies too.

So you choose to risk your lives to attack other people (who may be even badder than you) rather than scavenge and hit the coastline and the places where food and resources actually exist.

And you choose to do this ONE WEEK after the outbreak?
 
So you choose to risk your lives to attack other people (who may be even badder than you) rather than scavenge and hit the coastline and the places where food and resources actually exist.

There was clearly some form of surveillance going on before they rocked up to the boat, as they knew stuff that Alicia didn't tell them over the radio. Also they infiltrated a boat by using a supposedly injured pregnant woman as a distraction, at a time when there were only a couple of people paying attention. They had a plan, and it worked because none of the group were on the ball. They took advantage of a weak and unprepared target.

Like I said, there are people that operate like this on various levels now - exploiting people and situations for profit or power - so I can fully believe that if they survived the outbreak and managed to pool enough resources together, they'd still be doing it when society collapses.
 
When civilisation existed, those kinds of people had no choice but to steal from the living.

They now have the opportunity of simply head crushing zombies along the coast to get all the things they want but they're STILL going for the living?

I can buy this after a few months but after just one week, it seems entirely preposterous to me.
 
Add on to that the fact that they clearly had a ridiculously elaborate trap set up via the radio, their approach out of nowhere literally did come from out of nowhere (do they have some super radar system on their boat? and why didn't Strand pick them up on his radar as they did approach), and way too many other things to list here.
Depending on the sensitivity of the radar, how much debris is in the water (a lot, apparently), the height of the waves, and how much chop the yacht's kicking up in their wake, a tiny Zodiac like that probably could just blend into the background, especially if its mother vessel remained out of detection range. They probably used debris fields for cover until they got close, and then snuck up from astern using the yacht's wake to conceal their approach.

As far as how they found the yacht, they were dialed in to their radio frequency since Alicia foolishly started an apocapodcast with her new pirate BFF, so when Strand started contacting Luis to set up the rendezvous, they might have been able to triangulate their signal again. Or they have a more powerful radar on a smaller boat which allows them to track the yacht while remaining out of range of the yacht's radar. If they took a small Coast Guard patrol/SAR boat or a Sheriff's boat that would be ideal.
 
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