Spoilers Captain America: Civil War - Grading & Discussion

[DarkHorizon]

While I liked the idea of Zemo manipulating the whole situation for his own vengeance (a recurrent theme of the film), I found it a bit hard to believe that (as he's portrayed in the film) an ordinary officer of the Sokovian army with no connections to Hydra (unless I missed something) managed to find out about the existence of the Winter Soldier program and was able to know how to follow the tracks to more information on it. Perhaps my second viewing will clarify this issue.

Zemo explains that in his first appearance - he got the info from the files that Black Widow released to the public in Winter Soldier (although he says they were encrypted, which to me defeats the purpose of releasing them to the public, but hey...).

Saw the film yesterday - really enjoyed it. All of the character beats felt natural and entirely in keeping with the arcs these people have taken. Both sides were credible and you could see why they felt as they did. Was entirely wrong-footed by the final twist of showing Tony the tape and Cap knowing, and I liked that Cap and Tony remain divided at the end. Thought Spidey and Black Panther had excellent debuts, and am looking forward to their solo movies a lot now. Also wondering how this new status quo will affect the Ant-Man sequel, as Scott is now a fugitive (poor move by Ross to imprison two men with families in a secret, unvisitable prison...).

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Zemo explains that in his first appearance - he got the info from the files that Black Widow released to the public in Winter Soldier (although he says they were encrypted, which to me defeats the purpose of releasing them to the public, but hey...).

Ah, that's right. I do remember that scene, but somehow I completely forgot about it during the third act.

 

[Pauln6]

Excellent ensemble piece, great characterisation, good pacing, nice set pieces. There was some nice development of the character tech too and they laid a lot of groundwork for plot arcs that have featured in the comics. Some great one-liners. Hawkeye and spiderman worked well in this one.

 

[Relayer1]

Everyone got a little character attention, the plot stood up, the MCU grew a little. Spidey seemed a little shoehorned in, and I still don't like his suit but what the hell, he was great.

Oh, yeah - the film was fantastic ! Not quite as good as Winter Soldier for me (but almost !) : certainly on a par with Iron Man, Avengers, Guardians and Ant Man.

Btw, note to Batman vs Superman - this is how to make a serious superhero movie with believable motivations and avoid being dour and utterly joyless...

 

[N-121973]

I actually liked BvS, though it took two viewings to do so. This one however I liked right off the bat. I'm planning on having a run through of all the MCU phase 1 & 2 films before going back for a rewatch, this time in 2D.

 

[Ethros]

Have to say too I used to be a pretty big fan of Joss Whedon (av gives it away right?) but because this is just sooo much better than the messy Age of Ultron I'm pretty glad he's left and the Russo boys are doing the Infinity Wars.
The lack of "obvious Joss Whedon one liners" in this also made it a hundred times better. Not that there weren't jokes, Spider-Man's "has anyone seen that old movie?" bit was hilarious!

Also it never felt to me like Tony's visit to the Parkers felt off or interrupted the movie, loved every second of that scene.


btw I saw it in 2D, was there anything in the 3D version that really made it worth it?


ps. Freight car!

 

[Pauln6]

Marissa Tomei as a hot Aunt May was both so right and so wrong.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Ah, that's right. I do remember that scene, but somehow I completely forgot about it during the third act.

So basically the world is in trouble becuase Cap was irresponsible about his idea to release classified shit on the internet.

 

[Myko]

The two things that stood out to me as not good was the rapid changing of locations which seemed a little weird how everyone managed to get from place to place so quickly and effortlessly. The other thing is I felt Tony's motivation to fight Cap and Bucky in the final act seemed a little weak. I've not felt Tony was so hot on revenge killing. (Although he did say he was going to kill the Mandarin in IM3)

Edit: Also after that amazing airport fight I'd love to see a proper superhero teamup vs supervillain teamup!

 

[AvBaur]

I saw it tonight and thought it was great! Considering that the marketing campaign was all about "Team Iron Man" and "Team Cap", the movie really doesn't make it easy to pick a side because everybody's motivations are so understandable. We like these characters so much by now that it hurts to see them fight. But it's also lots of fun, because the action is so good and the movie never abandons its sense of humor. It's a very long movie, but I would've gladly sat through another hour of it.

Considering how many heroes are in it, it's really impressive how balanced it feels. None of the characters seem under-served, and their relationships are front and center.

As for the new characters: I can't wait to see more of this Spider-Man! Black Panther is cool, too, but I wish he didn't have to do that fake African accent.

 

[Mage]

I didn't feel his accent was fake at all. And I actually loved the fact Marvel had two characters from a African country talk to eachother in their native language!

I absolutely loved this movie. Every character truly had a good spotlight on it. Motivations for each and every one of them made complete sense. The liked the idea of an antagonist that wasn't some sort of demi-god, or supreme being, or someone with a huge army. Nope. Simpy someone who wanted them to stand apart.

Overall, as a movie, I think I would rate Winter Soldier slightly higher than Civil War. Still,this all worked incredibly well together. At one or two moments, it felt the pacing was slightly akward (introducing Peter Parker for example) but mostly, the flow was solid. The banter between Sam and Bucky was simply perfect. Cap's motivations were very true to his character, and he himself fully understood they were not perfect, and neiter is he. Tony's motivations work fantastic on paper, but you can tell he is fuelled by deeper meanings, to make things right again for himself, to fix what is wrong with HIM, not so much the planet. He set out to fix the world in Iron Man 1, and like Vision said, everything escalated afterwards. He knows that. This isn;t about fixing the world, it is (just like in Iron Man 1) about fixing the mess he made, and proving to himself and others (Pepper) that he really is a good guy. The fact that he wanted to kill Bucky out of revenge, showed he is as flawed as everyone else. But maybe now more willing to admit it to himself. That he isn't perfect, which is hard for a perfectionist.

 

[Mage]

Also..... Never take 9gag serious ofcourse, but this one was funny.

Civil War Logic according to 9gag.....
http://9gag.com/gag/a2mgEjY

 

[Relayer1]

Where's everyone else ? It's been out a day or two now...

 

[Mage]

For us, yes. USA isn't getting it for another week or so.

 

[Relayer1]

For us, yes. USA isn't getting it for another week or so.

Still, I'd have expected more activity...

 

[Mage]

I guess you're right. There are people from the UK and The Netherlands here, and I believe other European countries also released it this week.

 

[DimesDan]

it's the long weekend, people are busy no doubt.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Saw it again today and enjoyed it even more the second time around. The transition issues I had before (London to Vienna, the insertion of Spidey) don't bother me quite as much but they still stand out. The editing could've been a bit better around those points. Spidey doesn't stand out as badly considering Tony and Natasha's conversation about their team being a bit light, but it does feel odd that Tony would spend two thirds of his limited time allotted to him by Ross to go seek out Peter, convince him to join up and create a new costume for him. Not a big problem, but still odd.

Also, the bad guy couldn't have known that only the relevant trio will show up at the base or that Bucky would be brought to Germany (why did they send German police if the bombing was in Austria? Did I miss something?).

I missed this the first time around, but it's because the CIA-operated Joint Counter Terrorism Center is located in Berlin (the same organization that Sharon now works for post-SHIELD). Doesn't quite explain why the German police were in Hungary, but it explains how Zemo knew where things would go down.

The other thing is I felt Tony's motivation to fight Cap and Bucky in the final act seemed a little weak. I've not felt Tony was so hot on revenge killing. (Although he did say he was going to kill the Mandarin in IM3)

This doesn't bother me at all. Consider: Tony lost his parents at a young age, and as established by both his films and at the beginning of this one, he has struggled to deal with that grief (combined with his complicated relationship with his father). All his life, he thought they simply died from a car accident and now suddenly, he watches on video as both parents are murdered and the killer is standing right in front of him. He reacts irrationally with anger and vengeance and is consumed by the heat of the moment. Can any of us honestly say we wouldn't do the same if put in the same situation?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I just rewatched the trailer and noticed two lines aren't featured in the film (both from Tony):

"I was wrong about you. The whole world was wrong about you."

"You just started a war!"

Also, his "Sometimes I want to punch you in your perfect teeth" is a different take from a different angle.

 

[ichab]

Btw, note to Batman vs Superman - this is how to make a serious superhero movie with believable motivations and avoid being dour and utterly joyless...

Looking forward to seeing this movie too but I'm glad that D.C is going a different direction in the way they make superhero movies. Marvel is hit or miss and has become very formulaic in their approach.

Also Batman vs Superman was awesome!