Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND

[STEPhon IT]

You've completely changed the context of your statement from something generic and general about an emotional advisor to a new context of something very different and sexual in an attempt to change the context from which I asked my question. "A woman's touch" seems to imply that it is preferable and maybe even superior. My question was aimed at how women (represented by Uhura) might be better emotional advisors than men (represented by McCoy), if that's what you meant. In terms of the original context, it would be McCoy offering emotional advice to Kirk. That doesn't make them gay, as your comment about Kirk and Spock implies. In fact, TOS had a scene where Spock held Kirk's arm in emotional support. And in TMP, they clasped hands in an emotional bond.

So I ask again, how is a woman's emotional advice different than a man's?

No, I didn't change anything, what I wrote is called an opinion, and if you don't like it. Tough. I like the character Uhura, and I made supporting evidence from scene from the films, and IMO it's a woman's touch. Live with it.

 

[Shalashaska]

How long do we have left before this conversation turns to "I'm personally offended" and "TRIGGERED" posts?

 

[CorporalClegg]

That's true, Uhura's song was a hit in 1960.. no 1970...no 1980 no the TOS writers made something up!

That was completely derivative of contemporary music.

How long do we have left before this conversation turns to "I'm personally offended" and "TRIGGERED" posts?

I'm personally offended.

...Because someone had to.

 

[Malaika]

He didn't say he can't. He said it was hard. It suggests he wants to get things right even when they are hard.

I trust someone more to be motivated to learn and improve when they can express that kind of candid self-awareness. Kudos to Pegg for being a good example.

He literally said he can't, though. His female characters are indeed the weakest and not that great. Let's not have this conversation again please lol
But I'll accidentally mention that my gut feeling about him seems to be onto something, so far. I'm ready to get contraddicted by the movie, and I hope so, but this team (or mainly him b/c poor Jung is never asked anything and Lin talks very little) is exclusively focused on the men only and there is no effort made to even vaguely mention what's up with Uhura, or even asknoveledge the fact that the previous team no doubt changed the status quo a bit to include a woman into a narrative that, in trek, was exclusive to the male characters only. If he indeed sidelined Uhura in favor of the secondary male characters (the 'pair the spares' with her and Sulu all the while Mccoy interacts with Spock the most, and Scotty conveniently seems to team up with Kirk and the new character, seems to be a sly way to keep her away from K/S and make the guys more prominent through their interactions with the leads thus restoring the guys only party tos was ) I can't see how that would be an example of making any 'effort' here if he ends up undoing even an aspect that the other team had already improved.

Let's wait for the movie and him saying something about Uhura and the others that hint any care from his part and any effort, before we declare him 'a good example' of anything. He might as well be the opposite and that quote mentioned above might be damage control from his part to preventively try to justify himself for how he wrote women in trek, and how his bias for the male characters once again affected his writing.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Well, music from their own time hasn't been written, yet.

I'll turn and give $20 to the person sitting to the right of me at STB if the Beastie Boys song in the teaser makes it to the soundtrack.

If I recall correctly, none of the music in the ST09 teasers and trailers made the movie. It was "canned" stuff, put in more or less as a placeholder. It's unlikely much, if any of the soundtrack was ready by the time of the STB teaser, let alone ready and appropriate for the teaser. Someone probably thought, hmm, need action music, Kirk listened to the Beastie Boys in ST09, so -- .

What is wrong with the current themes from the first 2 soundtracks? There were pretty good, but I understand it was something Lin wanted, but that song from the Beastie Boys not a good choice.

 

[Franklin]

What is wrong with the current themes from the first 2 soundtracks? There were pretty good, but I understand it was something Lin wanted, but that song from the Beastie Boys not a good choice.

I really liked the first two soundtracks. If you can think of any piece from either that worked for the STB teaser, that would be great. That said, I just don't make much of the first teaser one way or the other. Especially the music. Too soon to tell, too early to judge, as a former President of the United States used to say (or is parodied as having said).

Well, it is established that Kirk likes them in ST09. That said, I rather doubt the Beastie Boys is the music Scotty is referring to when he says, "Is that music?" in the teaser. Kirk's "good choice," and Scotty's "well played" aren't likely references to music, either. It looks as if they are on the Franklin, and if they are using it as a base or trying to get it space-worthy, I doubt the "audio system" is among the first thing they'd bring online. And I don't know who would be in the mood for Beastie Boys music right then, anyway (maybe some Gilbert and Sullivan, trombone music, or Klingon opera ). We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[JWPlatt]

He literally said he can't...

Source, or it "literally" didn't happen.

I checked and found articles that accurately quoted him as saying it is "hard" and that "women write men better than men write women" and that he thinks there needs to be stronger roles for women in movies. That sounds like someone who is being conscientious in what and how he writes. It sounds like he'd give you much more consideration than you're giving him.

 

[fireproof78]

That's true, Uhura's song was a hit in 1960.. no 1970...no 1980 no the TOS writers made something up!

Is that the rule or the exception, though?
What music did Picard normally listen to? What did Data try to emulate? What did Riker typically play when he played trombone?

The idea that that future people will not like or enjoy older music is rather odd, when you consider that most of the holodeck entertainment that are enjoyed by TNG and forward crews are events from the past. Why is music the exception?

That was completely derivative of contemporary music.


I'm personally offended.

...Because someone had to.

Beat me to it

I really liked the first two soundtracks. If you can think of any piece from either that worked for the STB teaser, that would be great. That said, I just don't make much of the first teaser one way or the other. Especially the music. Too soon to tell, too early to judge, as a former President of the United States used to say (or is parodied as having said).

Well, it is established that Kirk likes them in ST09. That said, I rather doubt the Beastie Boys is the music Scotty is referring to when he says, "Is that music?" in the teaser. Kirk's "good choice," and Scotty's "well played" aren't likely references to music, either. It looks as if they are on the Franklin, and if they are using it as a base or trying to get it space-worthy, I doubt the "audio system" is among the first thing they'd bring online. And I don't know who would be in the mood for Beastie Boys music right then, anyway (maybe some Gilbert and Sullivan, trombone music, or Klingon opera ). We'll just have to wait and see.

Teasers are notorious for being cut in a way to be misleading. The idea that, somehow, the scene plays out exactly how it is shown in the trailer, especially given Pegg's and LIn's reservations about, is an exaggeration at best.

The soundtrack will be different as well, given the fact that tracks for a film are rarely completed until principle photography is done and the composer knows what type of scene he is working with. You can look at Attack of the Clones to see what happens when that process breaks down.

 

[Nyotarules]

I have no doubt people of the future will like older music, just as they do today however I doubt if the average young adult human will not listen to whatever is the contemporary music of their time, especially ten year old joyriders of cars. Sure we won't know what it is anymore than TOS writers could predict the creation of hip hop music of the 20th century, however at least they made stuff up, Spock was not playing the beach boys on this kaathrya just cos the show was created in 1966. And TNG had variety both old and future stuff.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I really liked the first two soundtracks. If you can think of any piece from either that worked for the STB teaser, that would be great. That said, I just don't make much of the first teaser one way or the other.

A little James Horner seems to work for an action trailer.

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It's called "Ascension" from the film Cocoon. The music not the trailer, Super 8-- just in case for the ones who are slow.

 

[BillJ]

That's true, Uhura's song was a hit in 1960.. no 1970...no 1980 no the TOS writers made something up!

One song, from 1966, in Star Trek's fifty year history. You win. You have proven what a hack Abrams is.

 

[ancient]

The real application of a transwarp teleporter is to remotely blow up Praxis.

 

[eyeresist]

I'll turn and give $20 to the person sitting to the right of me at STB if the Beastie Boys song in the teaser makes it to the soundtrack.

Then I'm pretty sure you will be poorer by $20. Scotty and Kirk both refer to the music in the trailer.

Locutus of Bored, maybe the fact that he said that?

No, he said it was more difficult for a man to write for women. He didn't say he couldn't do it, and certainly didn't say that he didn't want to do it. He did imply it was something he was conscious of and took special care over -- the opposite of the "woman-hater" Pegg you have imagined into existence.

 

[JWPlatt]

NIcely written!

 

[Trekkin]

Then I'm pretty sure you will be poorer by $20. Scotty and Kirk both refer to the music in the trailer.


No, he said it was more difficult for a man to write for women. He didn't say he couldn't do it, and certainly didn't say that he didn't want to do it. He did imply it was something he was conscious of and took special care over -- the opposite of the "woman-hater" Pegg you have imagined into existence.

He's written some pretty good female characters before.



I have faith.

 

[fireproof78]

I have no doubt people of the future will like older music, just as they do today however I doubt if the average young adult human will not listen to whatever is the contemporary music of their time, especially ten year old joyriders of cars. Sure we won't know what it is anymore than TOS writers could predict the creation of hip hop music of the 20th century, however at least they made stuff up, Spock was not playing the beach boys on this kaathrya just cos the show was created in 1966. And TNG had variety both old and future stuff.

One, out of personal curiosity, what "future stuff" was written that was played in TNG? I did a quick review of Memory Alpha (hardly comprehensive, I know) and the majority appeared to from human history.

Two, this isn't random teenagers, nor is it reflective upon anyone else in the time period. This is Kirk, who has shown an interest in antiques, and possibly more interested due to his dad's own personal tastes. I know, at least for me, that I was heavily influenced by my dad's own taste in music.

Third, it is promo material. Doesn't automatically mean it will be in the final cut of the film.

Finally, as has been stated previously, Star Trek has shown the future humans to be just as interested in the past (composers, events, characters, etc) as being enamored with contemporary artisans.

 

[Malaika]

Source, or it "literally" didn't happen.

I checked and found articles that accurately quoted him as saying it is "hard" and that "women write men better than men write women" and that he thinks there needs to be stronger roles for women in movies. That sounds like someone who is being conscientious in what and how he writes. It sounds like he'd give you much more consideration than you're giving him.

No, he said it was more difficult for a man to write for women. He didn't say he couldn't do it, and certainly didn't say that he didn't want to do it. He did imply it was something he was conscious of and took special care over -- the opposite of the "woman-hater" Pegg you have imagined into existence.

It's ironical that I'm accused of projecting my negativity on his words, but who is putting words into his mouth he didn't say, now? You nitpick about him saying 'can't' or not, but the 'explanation' above is NOT what he actually said, either! Yours is still just an interpretation based on a different kind of bias than mine.

I really don't get why you guys keep having this conversation with me and why you get on his defense like that. It's unnecessary you know why? because if you are right, actions that speak louder than words will show it. Or maybe not.
Neverthless, I'm sorry I hit a nerve but it really is not my fault that he admitted his female characters are the weakest and they are! Now, you two want to interpret it in a way, I interpret it in another. Your perception isn't the absolute truth (unless you are Pegg yourself!) and neither is mine. Only watching the movie will tell if he improved and made an effort OR his admission was damage control and I was right being wary about him.
Neverthless, don't make it seems I base my opinions only on that quote. It's untrue and derailing the point. The promotion of this movie so far (read my other comment) and some things he said, as well as his writing in other stuff, give me all right to get concerned about some aspects I care about, and him possibility sidelining Uhura in favor of the guys being one of those aspects. Maybe you guys wouldn't care either way so you can't relate to my concerns and you are able to chill and that's ok, but I feel differently and painting me as the vil fan unfairly hating on Pegg is immature because I honestly don't think my concerns (shared by others too from what I read) are as unfounded as you keep trying to say that they are. And frankly, they are not more unfounded than your blind trust and faith for the man (so it seems), something that seems to not even compute.

PS: oh and I never said that Pegg is a woman-hater. Stop exaggerating what I say to immaturely derail my point, again. I'm sick of that. You don't need to hate women , or poc or gay people to be someone who sucks writing them or has a definite preference writing about other stuff.
I'm not 5. I'm not calling him names and sending him death threats or something like that. I simply express my concern and doubts about his ability to do well with an aspect I care about.

 

[Trekkin]

It's been established in both of the prior movies that Kirk listens to the Beastie Boys (Sabotage in '09 and Body Movin' in STID,) People don't have to like it, but after 5 years I think it may be time to just accept it and move on. Popular music in Trek is hardly anything new (Hello' Blue Skies and Gilbert and Sullivan,) and the franchise managed to survive.

Funny enough, STID did have original 'future' music. The songs blasting in Scotty's waterhole (different countries got different songs) were written specifically for the movie.

http://www.startrek.com/article/australian-singer-lands-song-in-star-trek-into-darkness

And like the 'futuristic' music of TOS, every version sounds remarkably like the popular music of today. Shocking that.

 

[eyeresist]

That's what Pegg probably asked himself when he realized that he can't write for women...

Locutus of Bored, maybe the fact that he said that?

He literally said he can't, though.
this team (or mainly him b/c poor Jung is never asked anything and Lin talks very little) is exclusively focused on the men only and there is no effort made to even vaguely mention what's up with Uhura
that quote mentioned above might be damage control from his part to preventively try to justify himself for how he wrote women in trek, and how his bias for the male characters once again affected his writing.

You nitpick about him saying 'can't' or not

Nice backpedalling, after repeatedly asserting that Pegg literally said he can't write for women. He either said it or he didn't. He didn't, so what you said wasn't true. It's not nitpicking to point out you are saying and repeating stuff that isn't true.

Here is what the guy actually said:

I find it very hard to write for women. It’s mine and Edgar’s self-confessed weakness – whenever we’ve written scripts together, the women in our films are the weakest characters. It’s hard – you can understand the opposite sex, and yet still there’s a degree of authenticity that’s hard to achieve. Particularly when you’re writing specifically about issues relating to your own gender, because when you’re trying to see how the opposite gender interprets those issues you tend to project what you hope they think, and it isn’t always right.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/201...ry-hard-to-write-for-women-man-up-tess-morris

If you read this and still think that he is "exclusively focused on the men only", then I can't help you.

 

[Malaika]

eta:
btw, if anyone was interested about the article for the empire magazine .. here's a scan:
http://65.media.tumblr.com/acae91346f6dd518bbf7e98f4cb4a139/tumblr_o6cp87Mk3t1qj4j9jo1_1280.jpg

(nothing new is said and there is no new exclusive interview by Lin like the article mentioned. It looks more like a preview than a real article about the movie)

He either said it or he didn't. He didn't, so what you said wasn't true.

if you want to nitpick and use semantics, it goes both ways and thus your interpretation of his words (read post above) isn't what he 'literally' said either, it's words you are putting in his mouth (in other words: your interpretation. In other words, no more valid than mine) to fabricate your own explanation of what he meant beyond the quote itself, so what we want to do? argue about this inherently hypocritical point forever?

If you read this and still think that he is "exclusively focused on the men only", then I can't help you.

been there, done that. I have my interpretation, you have yours. I don't need any 'help' here.
and frankly, at this point I don't even care about that quote as much as I care about other things I already mentioned.
If I believe he's exclusively focused on the men only it's because, so far, he is the one who gives me that impression due to the way he talks about stuff. We can argue about this point forever but it's useless.
This feels like the ongoing arguments between Jack and Locke in LOST about 'faith vs not faith' .

Like, really...

and again, before declaring the man a 'good example' and take for granted that he improved his writing for women, wait for the movie or at the very least wait for an interview from him that vaguely hints he doesn't only talk about the guys and their dynamics because so far I read nothing that suggests that.