Babylon 5
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An un-powered, unguided, five mile long hunk of metal orbiting close to a jumpgate? What could possibly go wrong? I mean besides the orbit decaying or elongating without the ability to auto-correct and colliding with the gate, or suffering an asteroid strike, breaking up and littering the gate's exit vector with debris, possibly even damaging or destroying the gate itself. I'd call that a significant navigational hazard.
And yes, there's also the problem of other parties moving in. Even with the weapons systems removed and the reactor dismantled it'd make a very viable base for raider groups and it's position right next to a gate, in a region of space smack in the middle of the major powers would also make it the perfect jumping off point for piracy all along the trade corridors. Sure, the Rangers could just roll in the entire white star fleet and wipe them out, but why let it get to that point?
I don't think Draal would be too impressed with being stuck babysitting the place either.
And yes, there's also the problem of other parties moving in. Even with the weapons systems removed and the reactor dismantled it'd make a very viable base for raider groups and it's position right next to a gate, in a region of space smack in the middle of the major powers would also make it the perfect jumping off point for piracy all along the trade corridors. Sure, the Rangers could just roll in the entire white star fleet and wipe them out, but why let it get to that point?
I don't think Draal would be too impressed with being stuck babysitting the place either.
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But blowing it up would create a huge cloud of shrapnel that's an even greater hazard to navigation. You would think, considering the historical significance of the place, that it would be turned into a museum.
It was a controlled demolition, just like when they intentionally take down a building, they make sure it implodes in a predictable way. One would assume that there would be a comparable methodology for orbital structures. Indeed if you watch the scene, you'll note the debris has already begun to burn up.
If I had to guess, I'd say they had already performed a retro burn, altering the orbit so the perihelion intersects with the upper atmosphere, or perhaps even so the aphelion intersects with the ground, ensuring it's complete destruction one way or another. In that case detonating would be more symbolic than anything.
As for turning it into a museum: it's a space station. A really BIG one. Something like that costs a small fortune just to keep the lights on. All the tourist trade in the galaxy wouldn't be enough to keep the place spinning. Besides, for some reason B5 has a very strict "no gift shops!" rule.
If I had to guess, I'd say they had already performed a retro burn, altering the orbit so the perihelion intersects with the upper atmosphere, or perhaps even so the aphelion intersects with the ground, ensuring it's complete destruction one way or another. In that case detonating would be more symbolic than anything.
As for turning it into a museum: it's a space station. A really BIG one. Something like that costs a small fortune just to keep the lights on. All the tourist trade in the galaxy wouldn't be enough to keep the place spinning. Besides, for some reason B5 has a very strict "no gift shops!" rule.
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I'm afraid they're mis-remembering. There's nothing like that in his archived posts and, while not every single post made it to the archives, there was never any talk of JMS doing a cameo. In fact, he caught a fair amount of flak because he'd said on a number of occasions that he *wouldn't* ever do a cameo. And while he also often said that he'd long envisioned the final scene of the show, the only one that we know for sure whom he told is (iirc) John Copeland. Despite having been filmed a full year before airing, there were few to no spoilers out in the wild.
One of the things I like so much about B5 is that things are really not appreciated in their lifetime.
The people that made the documentary or the Rangers that fixed the Earth after the Great Burn would have loved to save it, but they are at least a thousand years too late, they best they can do is make a five season documentary tribute and keep as much data as they can while evacuating Earth.
Might as well dismantle the gate as well, after all the whole point of the gate was to serve B5, no B5 no need for a gate.
And I don't think many are saying it was wrong to blow it up, just that the reason a hazard to navigation was not really a good reason. It's not like it was in deep space, besides you would have to more or less aim your ship to hit it, instead of the planet of which it orbited.
^Technically it serves the whole Epsilon Eridani system, but yeah, it wasn't put there for B5, B5 was put there for the gate.
Plus, as a rule gates don't get dismantled. They're far to valuable. Indeed, there's a good reason why they and the beacons are almost universally considered off-limits in time of war.
Also, keep in mind that the "menace to navigation" line wasn't the officially stated reason, just one among several rattled off (along with "nobody comes here" and "what with the recent budget cutbacks...") by a very flustered, mid-level custodian clearly in the midst of a panic attack over the next best thing to Jesus showing up at his nowhere posting for an unannounced inspection tour at four in the morning.
I'm sure there are many reasons, of which potential navigational hazard is but one. Given that the decision came from Earthdome, there may have even been some political motivation in it. Remember, even after removing Clark half those guys still wanted Sheridan taken out and shot. OK, that was actually the EF brass, but you get the idea.
I can imagine such people not wanting B5 to become some pilgrimage site or a memorial to what was the rallying point of an insurrection.
Plus, as a rule gates don't get dismantled. They're far to valuable. Indeed, there's a good reason why they and the beacons are almost universally considered off-limits in time of war.
Also, keep in mind that the "menace to navigation" line wasn't the officially stated reason, just one among several rattled off (along with "nobody comes here" and "what with the recent budget cutbacks...") by a very flustered, mid-level custodian clearly in the midst of a panic attack over the next best thing to Jesus showing up at his nowhere posting for an unannounced inspection tour at four in the morning.
I'm sure there are many reasons, of which potential navigational hazard is but one. Given that the decision came from Earthdome, there may have even been some political motivation in it. Remember, even after removing Clark half those guys still wanted Sheridan taken out and shot. OK, that was actually the EF brass, but you get the idea.
I can imagine such people not wanting B5 to become some pilgrimage site or a memorial to what was the rallying point of an insurrection.
Do we know that? Or might the gate have been one built by the other races? (Honest question as I don't recall it ever being said in the show) We know that the race that tried to take over the Great Machine used the gate but we don't know that they were actually involved with constructing either the Machine or the jumpgate.
^^ I thought all of the gates were ancient artifacts that pre-dated any of the current civilizations.
To me that makes more sense than any of the the other reasons.
Didn't the Centarui sell Earth, Jumpgate technology (along with jump drives no doubt)
Not *all* the gates are ancient. Indeed I'm pretty sure most of them are new (we glimpsed one being constructed at the opening of 'A Distant Star'), but based on the reverse engineering of various gates found by certain races in their home system - the Minbari & Centauri being foremost among them. Not all races had gates in their system after all so some (like humans) had to purchase the technology or rent it from someone else. For Earth, that was the Centauri as they were the first to find us (not counting Vorlons, Shadows & Vree.)
The thing with the ancient gates is that most of them are derelict or inactive and using them for the first time can be "bumpy" at best and catastrophic at worst. A lot of them are in uncharted or uninhabited systems, presumably where something interesting ore useful used to be, to what ever civilization built them, but now it's just ruins.
I don't know that this is 100% consistent, but as a general rule I think the gates with four struts are new while the ones with three are ancient. As for who built them, I've always thought it was the Vorlons. We know they were explorers when they were still a young race, that they for sure built the Thirdspace gate and are the only one of the First Ones to use the same vortex method of jumping that the gates use while all the others we've seen use a visually distinct method.
The only exception to that is Lorien's ship, but that actually used the gates and didn't seem to ave a jump drive of it's own. Which makes sense when you think about it. They're an immortal race, so what's a few thousand years travelling through normal space at relativistic speed to them? By the time they got to the point of needing to zip around in a hurry, they'd probably already evolved into the "energy ball" form, seemingly able to bodily go FTL at will. Lorien's ship was probably just some relic he kept because he knew he'd have to transport *someone* off of Z'Ha'Dum still encumbered by a physical body.
Getting back to the original point though; I doubt the gate was built specifically to serve B5. Or rather The Babylon Station, since I think that along with B2 & B3 were built over Epsion III as well.
As we saw in 'A Distant Star', the way it works is that an explorer ship shows up in a new system, probably does a cursory survey to see if there's anything that might be worth looking at. If so they build a gate and move on. Later, survey and prospector ships show up (some independent contractors like Catherine Sakai) to have a more detailed look, grab samples and cash in their claims with their corporate masters. So it's likely that the gate at Epsilon III was already there. We saw in 'In The Beginning' that there was an abandoned Drazi outpost on one of the other planets (where the failed peace talks went down) so the system had been explored before.
The thing with the ancient gates is that most of them are derelict or inactive and using them for the first time can be "bumpy" at best and catastrophic at worst. A lot of them are in uncharted or uninhabited systems, presumably where something interesting ore useful used to be, to what ever civilization built them, but now it's just ruins.
I don't know that this is 100% consistent, but as a general rule I think the gates with four struts are new while the ones with three are ancient. As for who built them, I've always thought it was the Vorlons. We know they were explorers when they were still a young race, that they for sure built the Thirdspace gate and are the only one of the First Ones to use the same vortex method of jumping that the gates use while all the others we've seen use a visually distinct method.
The only exception to that is Lorien's ship, but that actually used the gates and didn't seem to ave a jump drive of it's own. Which makes sense when you think about it. They're an immortal race, so what's a few thousand years travelling through normal space at relativistic speed to them? By the time they got to the point of needing to zip around in a hurry, they'd probably already evolved into the "energy ball" form, seemingly able to bodily go FTL at will. Lorien's ship was probably just some relic he kept because he knew he'd have to transport *someone* off of Z'Ha'Dum still encumbered by a physical body.
Getting back to the original point though; I doubt the gate was built specifically to serve B5. Or rather The Babylon Station, since I think that along with B2 & B3 were built over Epsion III as well.
As we saw in 'A Distant Star', the way it works is that an explorer ship shows up in a new system, probably does a cursory survey to see if there's anything that might be worth looking at. If so they build a gate and move on. Later, survey and prospector ships show up (some independent contractors like Catherine Sakai) to have a more detailed look, grab samples and cash in their claims with their corporate masters. So it's likely that the gate at Epsilon III was already there. We saw in 'In The Beginning' that there was an abandoned Drazi outpost on one of the other planets (where the failed peace talks went down) so the system had been explored before.
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Oh, okay. Now that I think of it, I'm probably conflating B5 with a series of stories that was printed in Analog a few years back. 
I finally finished Babylon 5 last night. I thought it was great and I love this series. It made angry that I didn't follow it when it was on back in the day.
I think Sleeping in Light was definitely one of the best finales I ever watched.
I think Sleeping in Light was definitely one of the best finales I ever watched.
I'm about halfway through my re-watch of season one. It's a whole different experience than the first time through. So many things have meaning now that I know where everything is going. Like the first time we meet Mr. Mordon. Didn't mean anything then, but now it's like a "moment", a focal point. Love this show.
I'm on record in this thread of saying how displeased with the direction Londo's character changed from season one. I liked him, he was funny, I looked at him at first as comedy relief. Then they took him down that dark road and it made me unhappy. On this re-watch I've come to the realization that Londo HAD to take that road. If he hadn't gone there his character would have been boring. It was very smart in the beginning to make me like the lovable, carefree, pompous, baffon that was Londo. Otherwise I wouldn't be rooting for his redemption. When he made those very bad decisions, I started hating his character, he was so changed, went to such evil places. If they had introduced Londo from the start that guy, I wouldn't have been so affected by his feelings of guilt and remorse. I was pulling for him to redeem himself, and he does, to a degree. If I hadn't loved who he was in the beginning, I wouldn't feel so much pity for him at the end.
I'm on record in this thread of saying how displeased with the direction Londo's character changed from season one. I liked him, he was funny, I looked at him at first as comedy relief. Then they took him down that dark road and it made me unhappy. On this re-watch I've come to the realization that Londo HAD to take that road. If he hadn't gone there his character would have been boring. It was very smart in the beginning to make me like the lovable, carefree, pompous, baffon that was Londo. Otherwise I wouldn't be rooting for his redemption. When he made those very bad decisions, I started hating his character, he was so changed, went to such evil places. If they had introduced Londo from the start that guy, I wouldn't have been so affected by his feelings of guilt and remorse. I was pulling for him to redeem himself, and he does, to a degree. If I hadn't loved who he was in the beginning, I wouldn't feel so much pity for him at the end.
One thing I didn't like was how badly Sheridan treated Lyta. Lyta plays a huge role in the Shadow War and then is literally forgotten about by Sheridan and the command staff. They reward her by trying to kick her out of her apartment. They know how bad the Psi Corps are and because she can't make a living for herself on the station, they do nothing as she has to rejoin them again. Then they act shocked by her actions in Season 5...what the hell did they expect?
Sheridan's disregard for Lyta following the Shadow War is a legitimate flaw in his personal character.
Sheridan's disregard for Lyta following the Shadow War is a legitimate flaw in his personal character.
Which is why I always envy people's first *two* times watching the show.
There are lots of 'watch-once' shows and even a fair number of 'watch-twice' shows but there are very few like B5 which rewards attentive viewing many times. It makes us think, it makes us laugh and most of all it makes us care.ETA:
Nobody at all in the show is without flaws. That's part of the beauty of the characterization of this show. That said, it was necessary for the story for Lyta to become more than the doormat that she'd been trained to be and it wasn't just Byron's feelings for her, she had to get fed up with being treated as a convenience, used when needed and forgotten afterward.
Honestly, I'm more surprised at Ivanova's benign neglect of Lyta. I can understand Sheridan not thinking much of Lyra beyond her immediate usefulness, but you'd think Ivanova of all people, wither her history would keep Lyta in mind. Granted, through most of season 4 Ivanova is probably too busy to even think about anything not directly work related.
Regardless, IIRC the original plan for season 5 prior to Claudia Christian's departure was still for Lyta to join Byron's colony, albeit in the capacity of a follower. Yet that would still most likely necessitate Ivanova (as the new station commander) continuing to neglect Lyta.
Regardless, IIRC the original plan for season 5 prior to Claudia Christian's departure was still for Lyta to join Byron's colony, albeit in the capacity of a follower. Yet that would still most likely necessitate Ivanova (as the new station commander) continuing to neglect Lyta.
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