Warner Bros. Circling David Ayer for DC Comics’ ‘Suicide Squad’

[Christopher]

I agree with Captaindemotion here. The Joker has been portrayed in many different ways over the decades. In 1940 or so, he was a cold, ruthless killer and mastermind whose clownish appearance was an ironic contrast with his somber villainy. By 1944, he'd transitioned fully to a flamboyant thief, kidnapper, extortionist, and criminal performance artist who was as jolly as he looked and who rarely tried to kill anyone other than Batman and Robin -- basically the same version Cesar Romero played in 1966-9. In the '70s, he became a mix of the early-'40s killer and the post-'44 laughing prankster, and the idea that he was "insane" was added for the first time*. (There was actually a 1953 story where the Joker pretended to be insane until Batman proved it was just a ploy.) This version as defined by Denny O'Neil and Steve Englehart was the foundation for the Mark Hamill Joker on Batman: The Animated Series two decades later. And then Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns and Alan Moore's The Killing Joke took the Joker to extremes of mass homicide and horrifying sadism that have basically defined the character ever since. And there have been other variations in recent years, though I'm not as familiar with those.

So it can't really be said that a novel portrayal of the Joker is "wrong." He's been many different, often contradictory things, and new variations keep getting added.

*(I put "insane" in quotes because the Joker probably wouldn't meet the legal definition of insanity. He understands the criminal and immoral nature of his actions and the fact that they harm people; he just doesn't care. So he's psychopathic rather than psychotic. He really should be competent to stand trial -- but then he couldn't keep escaping from Arkham to menace Batman again, so they fudge it.)

 

[ancient]

I like this version of the Joker, judging by the previews. Manic but disturbing. The Tattoos are fine, they fit the character.

 

[eyeresist]

Yeah, I think Ayer is thinking of the wrong kind of gangster here with Joker. I could see Joker being a Sopranos or Godfather style gangster, but not really the tattooed gang banger type.

Where do you think Joker's zoot suit came from? When Joker was originally introduced, he was not cuddly and traditional. It's wrong to try to make him so, except if you are appealing to children.

Anyway, as Captaindemotion said, this is "yet another interpretation" which will be added to the pile. No-one should be talking as though Joker will be Ruined Forever.

 

[Thestral]

Just saw the Blitz trailer and the more I see of this movie the more I'm looking forward to it. I wasn't excited at all early on but it's really won me over with the promotions!

I've come around on the Joker's tatoos and the Harley costume - still not my first choice but they're definitely making it work.

 

[kirk55555]

Anyway, as Captaindemotion said, this is "yet another interpretation" which will be added to the pile. No-one should be talking as though Joker will be Ruined Forever.

Who said Joker is ruined forever by Ayer's horrible version? Personally, I'd say he's ruined in live action for probably the next 10 years or so, maybe less if Suicide Squad and/or the DCEU doesn't do as well as the WB wants. So, he's screwed for the DCEU, but not the comics or cartoons or the next inevitable live action incarnation after Leto. One horrible version doesn't ruin a character. But, that's not very comforting when you know he'll be the only live action version for the foreseeable future.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Who said Joker is ruined forever by Ayer's horrible version? Personally, I'd say he's ruined in live action for probably the next 10 years or so, maybe less if Suicide Squad and/or the DCEU doesn't do as well as the WB wants. So, he's screwed for the DCEU, but not the comics or cartoons or the next inevitable live action incarnation after Leto. One horrible version doesn't ruin a character. But, that's not very comforting when you know he'll be the only live action version for the foreseeable future.

You're a regular Pollyanna.

 

[JD]

Have you ever seen Russian Mafia/Bratva gangsters (or Mexican Mafia and Yakuza for that matter)? They're covered in prison tattoos.

I know of the pop culture versions of them from TV show, but I didn't really think about them wrote my other post. My first though when I think gangerster tattoos is tear drop gang banger tattoo kind of thing you see in American gang bangers, but I guess they aren't the only ones. I remember now that most of the Bravta or Yakuza members are probably even more heavily tattoo than you're average American gang banger.
I'm not at all worried about Leto's performance. I loved what I saw in the trailers, and from what I've read online Leto is a great actor, so I'm sure he'll knock it out of the park. One of my favorite shots in the trailers is Joker on the floor surrounded by rings of knives.

 

[kirk55555]

You're a regular Pollyanna.

There is absolutely no reason to pretend to be optimistic about crap. They pretty much couldn't make a worse Joker if they tried. He's like Eisenberg. Both were obviously horrible from their first clips. I'll give WB this, their horrible Joker makes me forget about their horrible Harley Quinn sometimes, or the fact that every single character in the movie is horrible. That's what happens when someone who obviously hates the source material makes a movie like this, there is so much terrible its hard to focus on what pisses me off more.

 

[Nerys Myk]

There is absolutely no reason to pretend to be optimistic about crap. They pretty much couldn't make a worse Joker if they tried. He's like Eisenberg. Both were obviously horrible from their first clips. I'll give WB this, their horrible Joker makes me forget about their horrible Harley Quinn sometimes, or the fact that every single character in the movie is horrible. That's what happens when someone who obviously hates the source material makes a movie like this, there is so much terrible its hard to focus on what pisses me off more.

You sure like the word horrible.
Leto's Joker is not on the same level "wrong" as Eisenberg's Luthor. I can understand objecting to the tattoos, but I don't see anything in the performance to object to. At least based on the scenes we've seen.

 

[eyeresist]

There is absolutely no reason to pretend to be optimistic about crap. They pretty much couldn't make a worse Joker if they tried. He's like Eisenberg. Both were obviously horrible from their first clips. I'll give WB this, their horrible Joker makes me forget about their horrible Harley Quinn sometimes, or the fact that every single character in the movie is horrible. That's what happens when someone who obviously hates the source material makes a movie like this, there is so much terrible its hard to focus on what pisses me off more.

If you hate every single part of this, why won't you just go away? Why do we have to listen to your endless complaining? Do you have anything to contribute besides "Waaaghh"?

 

[kirk55555]

If you hate every single part of this, why won't you just go away? Why do we have to listen to your endless complaining? Do you have anything to contribute besides "Waaaghh"?

I'll contribute my opinions when I want. Its a forum, if you only want people parroting the same opinions, this is not a good place for that.

You sure like the word horrible.
Leto's Joker is not on the same level "wrong" as Eisenberg's Luthor. I can understand objecting to the tattoos, but I don't see anything in the performance to object to. At least based on the scenes we've seen.

What he wears is part of how he acts. You know what you're going to get just by looking at him. Plus, if Leto thinks sending used condoms and anal beads are something Joker would find funny, he's Eisenberg levels of wrong and that will definitely be part of his performance. The only mystery is what will be worse, the writing or how Leto acts to the lousy writing and directing of a guy who seems to hate the source material.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What he wears is part of how he acts. You know what you're going to get just by looking at him. Plus, if Leto thinks sending used condoms and anal beads are something Joker would find funny, he's Eisenberg levels of wrong and that will definitely be part of his performance. The only mystery is what will be worse, the writing or how Leto acts to the lousy writing and directing of a guy who seems to hate the source material.

Explain to me what actions the Joker ( not Leto ) took or anything he's said in the trailers we've seen that are so un-Joker like. If you can't get past the clothes, I think the problem lies with you.
The Joker is a guy who shot a woman and took pictures of her suffering. Then he kidnapped her father, stripped him naked and bound him in S&M gear. He also beat a teenager to death with a crowbar, tried to poison a city's water supply, kills with a disfiguring gas and tried to copyright fishes with face. So sending anal beads and condom to people would be him on one of his lighter days.

 

[theenglish]

There is absolutely no reason to pretend to be optimistic about crap. They pretty much couldn't make a worse Joker if they tried. He's like Eisenberg. Both were obviously horrible from their first clips. I'll give WB this, their horrible Joker makes me forget about their horrible Harley Quinn sometimes, or the fact that every single character in the movie is horrible. That's what happens when someone who obviously hates the source material makes a movie like this, there is so much terrible its hard to focus on what pisses me off more.

When did you get a chance to see this movie? I didn't even realize the final cut was done.

The Joker is a guy who shot a woman and took pictures of her suffering. Then he kidnapped her father, stripped him naked and bound him in S&M gear. He also beat a teenager to death with a crowbar, tried to poison a city's water supply, kills with a disfiguring gas and tried to copyright fishes with face. So sending anal beads and condom to people would be him on one of his lighter days.

Not to mention cutting his own face off only to later start wearing it as a mask, and everything he's done since then in the New 52.

One of the things DC has done really well in the last couple of decades is make the Joker a truly horrifying figure capable of the most unimaginable acts without batting an eye.

 

[Mr Light]

Didn't a different villain cut his face off in the comics?

Come to think of it, did they ever explain how he got his face back?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Didn't a different villain cut his face off in the comics?

Come to think of it, did they ever explain how he got his face back?

The Joker's Daughter was wearing his face when he popped up with a new face. So I guess it grew back?

 

[JD]

CBR has some different quotes from Leto about how he created his Joker.
Sounds good to me.

 

[Garak]

Wow, that is a Zach Snyder level horrible explanation for a horrible decision. Joker is many things, but a tattooed gangster? no, just no. Not even Nolan got the character that wrong. sure, some versions of Joker were originally old school gangsters. That does not translate into stereotypical modern day gang member, though. But, whatever. Its a terrible part being played by a pretentious idiot. I never thought someone could do a worse Joker then Christopher Nolan. At this point, I'll take Nolan's grim, almost humorless philosopher who calls himself Joker over the stupid looking nut played by the guy who thinks sending screwed up stuff to cast members makes him edgy. Also, I'm pretty sure Ayer is as bad as Snyder, which is terrifying. Can someone at DC call Michael bay? He's horrible, but still better than anyone else they've hired.

It's really, really apparent you don't have any idea who the Joker is or what a gangster is.

 

[kirk55555]

Explain to me what actions the Joker ( not Leto ) took or anything he's said in the trailers we've seen that are so un-Joker like. If you can't get past the clothes, I think the problem lies with you.

He laid in a pile of knives while laughing, which was pretty stupid. Also, clothes matter. If Superman flew around dressed like Vanilla Ice in the movies, no one would argue that it made any sense or fit the character. On the same token, this:

is not Joker. Not in any reality (except in Ayer's messed up head) is this Joker. Not even in the New 52 is this the Joker, and that joker is the worst comic version. At least the crappy Harley Quinn has the terrible comics as an excuse for her look and character. This is just Ayer trying to prove that Zack Snyder is not the worst person connected to a DCEU movie. No one would even identify this as The Joker if you took a picture of him to people who weren't aware of the Suicide Squad movie.

CBR has some different quotes from Leto about how he created his Joker.
Sounds good to me.

Wow, Leto is a complete moron. I mean, I knew he was a pretentious asshole, but its more than that. A shaman? Really? At this point, I'm fairly sure this will be the worst DC movie ever, and that's including Snyder's films and those horrible, racist Batman Serials from the 40s. Or, at least it would be if it was a DC movie, but its not. There is really no DC characters in this movie, its all just DC names attached to whatever original characters Ayer wanted to make a movie about. Well, it does have Batman, so I guess there is a cameo by a DC character in this movie. A murderous, psychotic version of the character, but still a DC character.

It's really, really apparent you don't have any idea who the Joker is or what a gangster is.

I very much know who The Joker is. I've read and seen a lot with him over the years, certainly more than Ayer or Leto have.

 

[Garak]

I very much know who The Joker is. I've read and seen a lot with him over the years, certainly more than Ayer or Leto have.

You posts indicate otherwise - the more you post the more foolish you look as a matter of fact.

But then it doesn't really matter at the end of the day if you think Leto's not the Joker. DC says he is, which is all that matters, and he's been getting rave reviews and will continue to be the Joker for several films at the least. Your opinions will end up being on the fringe, the tiny bitter minority that give people a good chuckle every once in a while.

That's the reality of what you're facing here. Don't kid yourself, kid.

 

[Captaindemotion]

He's got white skin, green hair, a rictus grin and purple suit. Looks like The Joker to me. No, I don't like the suit or the tattoos or metal teeth. But then again, when I saw the first photos of Heath Ledger's Joker, I didn't like that his grin was comprised of scars, that his face was painted white or hair dyed green. But I loved the performance and that's what counts. And that's what I'll judge Leto by.