CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Allyn Gibson]

That's exactly why I never submitted a story I wrote to Strange New Worlds. I asked and was told that even if they didn't publish it, I could -NEVER- have it published anywhere else, nor could I even upload it to Fac-Fic dot-com or my own personal web page. That was a deal-breaker for me.

I know people who shared their SNW rejects after rejection. I used to have several of my rejects on my website. John Ordover used to encourage people to rewrite their rejects as non-Star Trek science fiction stories. Believe me, if you'd post your SNW reject to your website, the fanfic forum here, or a fan fiction archive, no one at CBS/Paramount would have ever noticed or cared.

 

[Mudd]

The only line that has been "well-documented here," as far as CBS has established in the lawsuit, is violation/protection of copyright - and that can be applied to any fan film at all.

Other issues, such as the scale involved or "financial benefit," are either additional or speculative.

 

[muCephi]

The only line that has been "well-documented here," as far as CBS has established in the lawsuit, is violation/protection of copyright - and that can be applied to any fan film at all.

Other issues, such as the scale involved or "financial benefit," are either additional or speculative.

I think it can be anticipated that there will be a moment when traditional media have to shut out the hordes who will have home cgi and access to worldwide distribution systems essentially equal to the studio system.

People with such tools can't be allowed to produce dozens of spin-offs or rip-offs of IP in near-realtime; you couldn't even produce one season without audiences being flooded with offshoots, speculative next episodes, character backstory fillins, etc. by the "professional fans".

The IP has to have a space around it or the originator of the IP can't net value from it.

 

[thumbtack]

the movie doesn't exist and therefore he's not the director.

The first and second of the "Axanar Works" are completed, published, and actionable.

a whole new collection of fans join the universe, ones without real ties to Pre-2017 Trek.

Shhhhhhhh.

 

[RedForman]

I think it can be anticipated that there will be a moment when traditional media have to shut out the hordes who will have home cgi and access to worldwide distribution systems essentially equal to the studio system.

People with such tools can't be allowed to produce dozens of spin-offs or rip-offs of IP in near-realtime; you couldn't even produce one season without audiences being flooded with offshoots, speculative next episodes, character backstory fillins, etc. by the "professional fans".

The IP has to have a space around it or the originator of the IP can't net value from it.

Where Lord Alec & his acolytes are concerned, they're outliers. Sure, there are many arrogant narcissists in this world, but I'd wager there are comparatively few, if any, who have the same level of resources (or the hubris to gather such) and ambition to pull something like this off. I definitely understand why C/P want to squash them, but I doubt there are, or will ever be enough of their kind to pose a threat (or an even larger headache at the very least).

Moving from "prime-Trek" into the "JJverse" or an otherwise unexplored arena is a good way to build space around the IP too IMO. The key here is persistence - keep producing content/material in this new, unexplored realm and after a while I think, the kind of hardcore fans slavishly devoted to old-school Trek (like the 'Axanards') will be isolated or out on the fringes far enough, that they won't be much of a headache at all to C/P (eventually, they too will get 'Trekked Out'......)

 

[carlosp]

If I had to guess, leaving the barn doors open may just be a way of keeping attention on the case. The attorneys have said their goal is to argue fair use and expand the range of creative freedom of fan films. This probably means somehow forcing copyright claims to be very specific amalgams, and opening up space for small variants as not being covered. To get an audience for this you gotta keep the issue in the press.

I think it might be more, see above.

My "hedging bets" comment was more about Ranahan's comment:

As far as any fair use determination, that involves a balancing test that is hard to predict and fact-specific, so a ruling either in favor of or against fair use may not necessarily provide precedent about whether another fan film may be considered fair use in another case (by another jury or judge).​

That's the bet-hedging I referred to. In other words, what might have been fair use in another instance (say, with a production that didn't pay its producers salaries, or that didn't try to build its own commercial studio, or that didn't create a store to sell bootleg merchandise) may not be affected by the finding in this case. And she's right. The balancing test for fair use is applied on a case-by-case basis. That hasn't kept the findings in previous fair use cases, however, from informing courts' opinions in subsequent ones.

Perhaps this is what Alec meant when he remarked somewhere recently that they were "mostly dealing with a few dozen 'haters' ". If their legal team has to take concrete actions to deal with things pointed out here or anywhere else, then they are concretely dealing with it.

Peters' most recent formulation is "10 to 12 members of a cabal." It all sounds so dastardly, doesn't it? At any rate, I haven't seen any "concrete actions" from Axanar's attorneys dealing with things pointed out here or on the Facebook group. Other than Peters' general attempt to discredit by name-calling and trying to keep the "hater" numbers as low as possible.

 

[Sgt_G]

Believe me, if you'd post your SNW reject to your website, the fanfic forum here, or a fan fiction archive, no one at CBS/Paramount would have ever noticed or cared.

Well, as I said, I never sent it in. But I did post it here on Trek-BBS a while back.

 

[muCephi]

Where Lord Alec & his acolytes are concerned, they're outliers. Sure, there are many arrogant narcissists in this world, but I'd wager there are comparatively few, if any, who have the same level of resources (or the hubris to gather such) and ambition to pull something like this off.

I am thinking worldwide. Anywhere there is a niche to be exploited to some advantage using net technology, it gets shoehorned open by those who simply want to scoop up the profits while the opportunity exists. Alec has pushed out ahead but I think that the resources required to produce studio-comparable content and distribution systems will be less and less, just like pro audio studios turned into laptops and record stores turned into napster. I think the holders of IP will have to have clear boundaries creating a considerable space around their stories so they don't get claimjumped.

My "hedging bets" comment was more about Ranahan's comment:

As far as any fair use determination, that involves a balancing test that is hard to predict and fact-specific, so a ruling either in favor of or against fair use may not necessarily provide precedent about whether another fan film may be considered fair use in another case (by another jury or judge).​

That's the bet-hedging I referred to. In other words, what might have been fair use in another instance (say, with a production that didn't pay its producers salaries, or that didn't try to build its own commercial studio, or that didn't create a store to sell bootleg merchandise) may not be affected by the finding in this case. And she's right. The balancing test for fair use is applied on a case-by-case basis. That hasn't kept the findings in previous fair use cases, however, from informing courts' opinions in subsequent ones.

interesting thanks

Peters' most recent formulation is "10 to 12 members of a cabal." It all sounds so dastardly, doesn't it? At any rate, I haven't seen any "concrete actions" from Axanar's attorneys dealing with things pointed out here or on the Facebook group. Other than Peters' general attempt to discredit by name-calling and trying to keep the "hater" numbers as low as possible.

Its just speculation but I think each time you do something like lay out their budget, they may behind the scenes have to figure out how they are going to counter CBS/P discovery demands which may have become more specific and informed.

As for the demonizing, that will only sell with the audience until they cross some emotional 'this is enough' line with the supporters. And in the meantime its ineffectual since the demons are simply digging up and quoting team Axanar's words and writings in public places, and occasionally asking why there is an inconsistency. Demonic!

 

[Jody Wheeler]

The first and second of the "Axanar Works" are completed, published, and actionable.

I think you could make a really strong argument that the feature film began production and just took a really big break between shooting the Vulcan scene and whatever next scene they'd scheduled.

A really long time.

 

[Lukas Kendall]

Even if they never make the movie they collected a ton of money to do so. The economic transaction was completed on a promise of a Star Trek movie.

The John Does 1-20 are the biggest morons in the world if they do not get their own counsel at once. They are being sued by a Fortune 500 company and they think Alec Peters will protect them? It would be hilarious if it weren't tragic.

 

[carlosp]

I think you could make a really strong argument that the feature film began production and just took a really big break between shooting the Vulcan scene and whatever next scene they'd scheduled.

A really long time.

I also think that any of the materials produced in preproduction, like the VFX, production designs, etc., also exist in "fixed, tangible form," and therefore actionable.

 

[Jody Wheeler]

The John Does 1-20 are the biggest morons in the world if they do not get their own counsel at once. They are being sued by a Fortune 500 company and they think Alec Peters will protect them? It would be hilarious if it weren't tragic.

I've been making it a point to list the California Lawyers for The Arts for this very reason. They supply referrals to low-cost lawyers and can help people find pro-bono ones as well. There's just no reason to keep your head down and hope the lawsuit storm blows over and away from you.

Also, it was great reading your thoughts on the revised Axanar script. I reviewed an earlier version. It wasn't very good. Shootable, but not good. The draft you read sounded only marginally better.

 

[Jody Wheeler]

I also think that any of the materials produced in preproduction, like the VFX, production designs, etc., also exist in "fixed, tangible form," and therefore actionable.

That's a good point. By Robert's own admission, Tobias had been producing tons of footage to Robert's specifications, based on notes from the revised script. That would count as "production", even if no scenes were filmed. If VFX are still being produced, that could conceivably count as Axanar still being in production.

 

[muCephi]

That's a good point. By Robert's own admission, Tobias had been producing tons of footage to Robert's specifications, based on notes from the revised script. That would count as "production", even if no scenes were filmed. If VFX are still being produced, that could conceivably count as Axanar still being in production.

That seems like a big risk considering the degree of uncertainty in what, if anything of Trek IP (especially ship designs) they end up being permitted to use. *Assuming* they can even move forward...

 

[BillJ]

*Assuming* they can even move forward...

There's still no movie, even if they were to win the lawsuit. They've spent what they've raised and I imagine they won't be welcomed at crowdfunding sites going forward.

 

[carlosp]

BREAKING CBS and Paramount attorneys just filed their briefs opposing the defense motion to dismiss. I'm live-tweeting as I read through, and will be updating this article on AxaMonitor as I synthesize what I'm reading.

 

[muCephi]

Oh, *here's* a fun one:

"And since a language is "only useful if it can be used to communicate with people," Grossman points out that "there are no Klingons with whom to communicate." "

via 1701news

 

[Sgt_G]

Yes, but I met a couple who could speak Klingon well enough to carry on full conversations, so perhaps it is "useful".

 

[HIjol]

Since the whole thing is fiction, could a Squad of Klingons show up at a deposition or a courtroom, claim Klingon origins and ancestry (in Klingon, of course) present culture and heritage, societal details, facts about their military and ships (nothing classified, mind you) and "prove" that there were, in fact, (fiction) Klingons with which to speak?

Ah, it would be Glorious!

Songs would be sung, and much Blood Wine consumed...

...and Prune Juice

Perhaps the Gang of 20 could use a little of the "Warrior's Drink", right about now!!!

 

[Michael Hinman]

Oh, *here's* a fun one:

"And since a language is "only useful if it can be used to communicate with people," Grossman points out that "there are no Klingons with whom to communicate." "

via 1701news

Here's our full story, by the way ...

http://1701news.com/node/1130/cbs-paramount-say-axanar-motion-misguided-misleading.html