How Many Captains Per Starship?

[Steve Willis]

From Star Trek IV to Star Trek Generations, there are at least 2 captains on the Enterprise. I have wondered exactly how this works as far as command structure is concerned. It is reasonable for Scotty to be Captain of Engineering. He is not in the direct chain of command. Spock, on the other hand wears command white and stays on the bridge.
In Generations, Kirk, Scotty, and Harriman are on the bridge and all seem to be in some form of command at one time or another.

 

[Longinus]

There may be many people with a rank of the Captain, but only one Captain of the ship (i.e. commanding officer.)

In TWOK Spock is the Captain of the ship, in FF and TUC Kirk is, in Generations Harriman is. Granted, it is weird that Spock and Scotty stayed on the Enterpise instead of getting commands of their own. It is particularly weird in case of Spock who went from being a Captain of a ship back to the first officer.

 

[Chaos Descending]

In the US Navy, for example, there could be a BUNCH of Captains (by rank) on one ship.

The military has a chain of command that's not connected solely to the rank one wears on their collar.

For example, I was on the USS Nimitz from 1995 to 1999.

My Commanding Officer was a Captain.
My Executive Officer was a Captain.
My Reactor Officer was a Captain.
My Senior Medical Officer was a Captain.
The Commander of the Air Wing was a Captain.

No one was confused about who had authority over who and when.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Like said above, there is only one actual captain -- requested by Starfleet to take command of a ship. Further more, there wouldn't be need while on a standard mission, for another; there's a chain of command: Riker comes next, then Data, and I think later on when Troi passed her Bridge officer's examination, she joined the list of people to take command (correct me if wrong).

 

[Griffeytrek]

I think you missed a Captain in the TMP era ships. I believe like Scotty, McCoy at some point held the rank of Captain. Just not a Ships Captain. (Actually wasn't he further referred to as The Admirral in Encounter at Farpoint? Making him the only confirmed TOS era character to end his service career at that rank?)

Naval rankings and titles can get weird in real life, and even weirder in Trek (since like most SciFi they follow the time honored tradition of "making sh@t up in service to the story") most confusion seems to stem from the weird naming convention where the title Captain is used both as a Rank, and a somewhat indirectly related Command Position. Ship's Captain is a Command Position. It does not in fact require a Captain ranked officer. Smaller ships are typically Captained by Commanders. Hence Sisco was a Commander when he was the Captain of the Defiant. He was addressed as Captain when on board. In fact when he was promoted to full Captain rank he was largely promoted out and above the Defiant's Captains chair to take on a Theater War planning and command role. Leaving the Defiant to Dax or Worf. In the real world this is common in smaller ships such as Attack Subs or Smaller surface ships.

Similarly in a particularly large ship or crew there may be multiple Captain Ranked Officers serving as department or specialty heads. Modern Aircraft Carriers are the clearest example. Case in point there is a Captain in command of a Carriers Air Wing. He is not the Ships Captain. He is the Air Wings Captain. His job is what the planes do, not what the boat does. It's actually more surprising that a huge ship like the Enterprise-D, with a crew of thousands did not have a few Captain ranked department heads. Especially given the ships flagship status. Logic would dictate that Science, Engineering, and Medical could all carry a Captain at their head but under the ships Captain.

Also note that we have seen situations in Trek where officers above Captains rank are Captaning ships. Commodore Matt Decker comes to mind. He commands his own ship and has several ships in a task force under him. (Don't even bother trying to figure out how or where Star Fleet Commodore actually sockets into the rank charts. It's example A of "making sh@t up in service to the story")

Add to this that an Army or Air Force Captain is the Equivalent Rank of a Navy Lt Commander, Whereas the Navy Captain lines up with the Army Colnel. And you can see where the entire concept of "Captain" is enough to makes ones head hurt.

 

[Orac]

Was Uhura ever promoted to Captain? No! Obviously racist sexism. Mmm hmmm.

 

[Griffeytrek]

Was Uhura ever promoted to Captain? No! Obviously racist sexism. Mmm hmmm.

I think the only on screen mentions of Uhura and Chekov's rank was Commander. Based on at least her comments in ST III it might be assumed that Uhura intended to wind down her career and peacefully retire at that rank. Of course that could also be subterfuge for the benefit of "Mr. Excitement".

 

[Nerys Myk]

There may be many people with a rank of the Captain, but only one Captain of the ship (i.e. commanding officer.)

In TWOK Spock is the Captain of the ship, in FF and TUC Kirk is, in Generations Harriman is. Granted, it is weird that Spock and Scotty stayed on the Enterpise instead of getting commands of their own. It is particularly weird in case of Spock who went from being a Captain of a ship back to the first officer.

Why would Scotty want command if he prefers being an engineer? He can be CEO without being the CO.
Spock seemed to prefer running a training ship to one on active duty. Being dead might screwed with Spock becoming a CO.

 

[PhaserLightShow]

I think you missed a Captain in the TMP era ships. I believe like Scotty, McCoy at some point held the rank of Captain. Just not a Ships Captain. (Actually wasn't he further referred to as The Admirral in Encounter at Farpoint? Making him the only confirmed TOS era character to end his service career at that rank?)

Naval rankings and titles can get weird in real life, and even weirder in Trek (since like most SciFi they follow the time honored tradition of "making sh@t up in service to the story") most confusion seems to stem from the weird naming convention where the title Captain is used both as a Rank, and a somewhat indirectly related Command Position. Ship's Captain is a Command Position. It does not in fact require a Captain ranked officer. Smaller ships are typically Captained by Commanders. Hence Sisco was a Commander when he was the Captain of the Defiant. He was addressed as Captain when on board. In fact when he was promoted to full Captain rank he was largely promoted out and above the Defiant's Captains chair to take on a Theater War planning and command role. Leaving the Defiant to Dax or Worf. In the real world this is common in smaller ships such as Attack Subs or Smaller surface ships.

Similarly in a particularly large ship or crew there may be multiple Captain Ranked Officers serving as department or specialty heads. Modern Aircraft Carriers are the clearest example. Case in point there is a Captain in command of a Carriers Air Wing. He is not the Ships Captain. He is the Air Wings Captain. His job is what the planes do, not what the boat does. It's actually more surprising that a huge ship like the Enterprise-D, with a crew of thousands did not have a few Captain ranked department heads. Especially given the ships flagship status. Logic would dictate that Science, Engineering, and Medical could all carry a Captain at their head but under the ships Captain.

Also note that we have seen situations in Trek where officers above Captains rank are Captaning ships. Commodore Matt Decker comes to mind. He commands his own ship and has several ships in a task force under him. (Don't even bother trying to figure out how or where Star Fleet Commodore actually sockets into the rank charts. It's example A of "making sh@t up in service to the story")

Add to this that an Army or Air Force Captain is the Equivalent Rank of a Navy Lt Commander, Whereas the Navy Captain lines up with the Army Colnel. And you can see where the entire concept of "Captain" is enough to makes ones head hurt.

Commodore is between (Fleet) Captain and Rear Admiral (Rear Admiral lower half in TNG).
And Army/Air Force Captain is a Navy Lieutenant. A Navy Lt. Cmdr. would be an Army/Air Force Major.
(I think @Steve Willis is talking about Starfleet Captains, and Starfleet uses Navy ranks)

@PhaserLightShow

 

[Orac]

I think the only on screen mentions of Uhura and Chekov's rank was Commander. Based on at least her comments in ST III it might be assumed that Uhura intended to wind down her career and peacefully retire at that rank. Of course that could also be subterfuge for the benefit of "Mr. Excitement".

I'm pretty sure she wore the same rank insignia on her collar in Star Trek II through VI.

 

[Griffeytrek]

Commodore is between (Fleet) Captain and Rear Admiral (Rear Admiral lower half in TNG).
And Army/Air Force Captain is a Navy Lieutenant. A Navy Lt. Cmdr. would be an Army/Air Force Major.
(I think @Steve Willis is talking about Starfleet Captains, and Starfleet uses Navy ranks)

@PhaserLightShow

I stand corrected.

 

[PhaserLightShow]

I stand corrected.

Yes, but otherwise you had a good and logical post.

@PhaserLightShow

 

[Steve Willis]

OK, now, never in the TOS is there more than one captain on the Enterprise. In the TNG there is only Picard. Riker's promotion was only temporary in BoBW. In IV-VI Spock wore command white. McCoy was never a captain during the TOS movies. In the novelization of TWOK Sulu was to be promoted to Captain, but this never occurs till UDC. It is almost as if Kirk and Spock are co-captains. Most of the time on the ship Scotty doesn't even wear rank insignia. He just has a white shirt and vest.

 

[Timo]

Also note that we have seen situations in Trek where officers above Captains rank are Captaning ships. Commodore Matt Decker comes to mind.

We have also seen situations where officers below that rank are in command. Other than Lt Cmdr Dax on the Defiant during the Dominion War, these have been temporary or subject to argument, though. Kirk in the second pilot wears what we later get to know as the rank braid of a full Commander. And Pike in the first pilot wears the very same braid his First Officer, explicated to be a Lieutenant, does. We may plead "different braid systems" if we want to, but Starfleet before these pilots had the same system as Starfleet after the pilots, and even a parallel universe had the same system...

I wonder whether Commodore Decker's ship had a multitude of Captains aboard, like Kirk had a multitude of full Commanders? Heck, perhaps Decker was flying his flag aboard a ship that had a Captain for CO?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Longinus]

We have also seen situations where officers below that rank are in command. Other than Lt Cmdr Dax on the Defiant during the Dominion War, these have been temporary or subject to argument, though. Kirk in the second pilot wears what we later get to know as the rank braid of a full Commander. And Pike in the first pilot wears the very same braid his First Officer, explicated to be a Lieutenant, does. We may plead "different braid systems" if we want to, but Starfleet before these pilots had the same system as Starfleet after the pilots, and even a parallel universe had the same system...

The Idea that Kirk was a commander when we first saw him makes perfect sense, but it is kinda hard to accept that Pike would have been a lieutenant in command of one of the most powerful vessels in the fleet. I wonder what they were thinking when they designed the rank system for the first two episodes?

 

[BillJ]

I wonder what they were thinking when they designed the rank system for the first two episodes?

They couldn't imagine people would still be watching it fifty years later.

 

[Lance]

The 'Captain' is whoever is commanding officer. They don't even necessarily need to have the rank of captain to be captain, but in the case of STVI and V it seems clear to me that Kirk is the commanding officer and Spock, while holding the rank of captain, stands (voluntarily) beside him as science officer and XO.

STVI is a different kettle of fish, given that Enterprise seems to be off the active service list and the crew have all been reassembled for a 'special assignment'. Kirk is clearly captain, but Spock interestingly enough may be the commander of the overall mission, given it's under the jurisdiction of his diplomatic efforts.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I wonder what they were thinking when they designed the rank system for the first two episodes?

They were thinking they were making pilots, not the first episodes of a series. They were only shown to get ahead on production. They made other changes to the sets, SFX and cast between the two pilots and between the second pilot and the first regular episode.

 

[Timo]

The TOS movies are really poor examples of chains of command - most don't deal with a ship that would have a mission and a command crew, after all. TMP involves a scramble that also leaves the command team scrambled (in case of Sonak, rather literally so!). ST2 describes a birthday joyride. ST3/4 deal with a renegade crew. ST6 has an impromptu assembly of diplomats and officers for a special mission. And ST:GEN shows retired officers.

Basically the only time we get to see the command crew in action is ST5:TFF, then. Make of that what you wish, but two Captains seems fine with Starfleet. And which one of them gets dibs for command must be a rather unique decision, as normally a person demoted to the rank of Captain would not be a consideration at all!

(Is Scotty a Captain there? He was supposed to get the promotion in ST3, and the fact that he kept on wearing jackets with Cmdr insignia tells us little because by that time he was a renegade lacking access to more proper decorations. But ST6 is the first time we see him actually wear the Captain pin, so perhaps his promotion hadn't been processed to conclusion in ST5 yet.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Timo]

The Idea that Kirk was a commander when we first saw him makes perfect sense, but it is kinda hard to accept that Pike would have been a lieutenant in command of one of the most powerful vessels in the fleet.

This depends on whether NCC-1701 qualifies as such. What should we make of Pike's much smaller crew, with his explicitly lower-ranking sidekicks? Perhaps the ship is but a hull, and prestige is what is being allocated by assigning a mission and installing a software package, so that a Constitution can be one thing on Monday and two different things on Tuesday. Pike's fumbled milk run prior to "The Cage" might be beneath the abilities of a full Commander, and Pike was but a "ferry captain" for somebody higher-ranking and would have been off the deep space business anyway regardless of whether he chose to engage in slave trade or not. The Talosian adventure may have altered that...

Tellingly, Pike is only promoted to (Fleet) Captain when he and Kirk first meet. Which probably is well after "The Cage", as the Kirk/Spock connection doesn't go that far back.

Timo Saloniemi