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Another Re-watching DS9 thread (spoilers)

Like I said, it didn't happen yesterday. Sisko was sent here because he had to care for his son and Jake could accompany him. A choice he made. He could have taken Worf's approach and dumped his responsibilities off on his parents. I commend him for not doing that. None of this changes the fact that Picard is his senior officer and he disrespected him; something that should have been addressed.

It might not have happened yesterday, but the prophets showed him that he was just ignoring what he was feeling rather than dealing with it.

I think a lot of the pilot was sisko actually dealing with it and admitting that he never had, I also think that disrespecting Picard, while not nice could still also have been a subconscious thing, considering he was ignoring the fact that he never left the ship at wolf 359 he was still projecting that whether or not he meant to was a different thing, at the end of the pilot he was much more polite and respectful.
 
It might not have happened yesterday, but the prophets showed him that he was just ignoring what he was feeling rather than dealing with it.

I think a lot of the pilot was sisko actually dealing with it and admitting that he never had, I also think that disrespecting Picard, while not nice could still also have been a subconscious thing, considering he was ignoring the fact that he never left the ship at wolf 359 he was still projecting that whether or not he meant to was a different thing, at the end of the pilot he was much more polite and respectful.
Saying that Sisko blames Picard for Wolf 359 goes too far. Instead, Picard embodies the unresolved issues that Sisko has,the psychological pain he has lived with without trying to resolve. In the context of storytelling, the meeting between Sisko and Picard reveals Sisko's state of mind by comparing him with someone known for his discipline, who himself struggled against the feeling of guilt for the deaths caused by his hand when under someone else's control. That meeting was an extension of the type of struggles Picard endured in "Family."
 
Saying that Sisko blames Picard for Wolf 359 goes too far. Instead, Picard embodies the unresolved issues that Sisko has,the psychological pain he has lived with without trying to resolve. In the context of storytelling, the meeting between Sisko and Picard reveals Sisko's state of mind by comparing him with someone known for his discipline, who himself struggled against the feeling of guilt for the deaths caused by his hand when under someone else's control. That meeting was an extension of the type of struggles Picard endured in "Family."
I'm not sure I have ever gone as far to say Sisko blames Picard as if that was the case it would not have been resolved as much as it did by the end of the Pilot, but you have explained it better than I could have, it was what I kind of meant but did not put across properly (I hate words I'm an accountant not a Writer :) )
 
I'm not sure I have ever gone as far to say Sisko blames Picard as if that was the case it would not have been resolved as much as it did by the end of the Pilot, but you have explained it better than I could have, it was what I kind of meant but did not put across properly (I hate words I'm an accountant not a Writer :) )
I wasn't disagreeing with you: I felt I was expanding on your comment. Sorry if that was not clear.
 
Saying that Sisko blames Picard for Wolf 359 goes too far. Instead, Picard embodies the unresolved issues that Sisko has,the psychological pain he has lived with without trying to resolve. In the context of storytelling, the meeting between Sisko and Picard reveals Sisko's state of mind by comparing him with someone known for his discipline, who himself struggled against the feeling of guilt for the deaths caused by his hand when under someone else's control. That meeting was an extension of the type of struggles Picard endured in "Family."

It's not going to far. initially, before his stint with the prophets, he most certainly blamed Picard for the loss of his wife. The Borg gained all Picard's knowledge during BoBW. This was considered by most and even Picard himself as directly giving the Borg the advantage at Wolf 359; so much so Picard was considered an "unstable element" and prevented from fighting at Wolf 359. He had to disobey orders to join the fight. I agree that issues like this are something Picard has to deal with and is continuing the issues shown to us in 'Family'.

I'm not saying Sisko should have been fired or demoted or hoose-galled or something like that, but I do believe Sisko should have made some sort of amends for his actions the first time he meets with Picard.

Something like this:

As written:
"SISKO: Captain, regarding our conversation about someone to replace me.
PICARD: Yes, I'm sorry I haven't had time yet to communicate that to Command.
SISKO: I would prefer you ignore it, sir.
PICARD: I'm not sure that I can. Are you certain that's what you want, because we cannot afford to have an officer who's
SISKO: I'm certain, sir.
(They shake hands.)
PICARD: Good luck, Mister Sisko."

Simply add:
SISKO: Thank you sir.... and Captain, I was out of line with my comments concerning Wolf 35.....
PICARD (interrupts): Commander, I understand... it's a burden I bare every day. (Picard would say something better than that I'm sure, but you get the drift)
 
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He knew Picard could have infected the Borg with Hue and he chose not to. This was considered by most and even Picard himself as directly allowing Wolf 359 to happen.

The incident with Hugh happened after Wolf 359.
 
Homecoming:

I enjoyed this episode. Good kick-off to the second season.

I thought the whole "Kira and Obrien rescue" was pretty unrealistic. It seems like the Cardassians are horrible shots and of course Iron Mike Kyra again floors someone with twice her strength. Wouldn't it have been much more realistic to send the runabout to C4, scan for Bajorans, then present the findings and the earring to Cardassia? (Dukat)

I enjoyed the Li Nalas character and thought Richard Beymer did a fine job playing the part.

While Sisko and Kira were surprised that Dukat was apologetic, I really don't think they should have been. Cardassia already publically said they've released all Bajorans... this would have been a huge embarrassment and unlawful for the Cardassian government.

The introduction of the Circle is good and realistic.

Jaro (Frank Langella) was awesome! Very believable and comes off as a very influential leader.

Sisko/Jake first date stuff was good.

I loved the interchanges between Sisko and Li Nalas.

"LI: But I am not the man that they think I am.
SISKO: Perhaps not. But Bajor doesn't need a man. It needs a symbol, and that's what you are. No one's asking you to lead troops into battle, or to kill a hundred Cardassians with your bare hands. I saw you in front of the crowd on the Promenade. They look at you and they see strength, and honor, and decency. They look at you and they see the best in themselves.
LI: But it's all based on a lie.
SISKO: No. It's based on a legend. And legends are as powerful as any truth. Bajor still needs that legend. It needs you."

Sisko not really caring about how Li really killed that Cardassian and bringing perspective to Li. All good stuff.

Then of course....

"Major Kira is no longer assigned to this post. She's been recalled to Bajor."

Jaw hit the floor... how's that for a cliff hanger? :-)

3 out of 4 stars for me.
 
Not reactionary at all. A man and his family are forcibly removed from their home and their private property taken by the government. Aside form the stupid reasoning this episode proposes, this action and the Federations' support and Sisko's "make them move now or your fired" mentality are nothing short of immoral.
Happens all the time in real life its called 'A compulsory purchase order'
 
I don't know if it's me but I've noticing that some of the episodes I've watching on Netflix appears to be missing a scene or two.
 
Like I said, it didn't happen yesterday. Sisko was sent here because he had to care for his son and Jake could accompany him. A choice he made. He could have taken Worf's approach and dumped his responsibilities off on his parents. I commend him for not doing that. None of this changes the fact that Picard is his senior officer and he disrespected him; something that should have been addressed.

I think it was addressed.

The simmering conflict between Sisko and Picard is one of the best things about Emissary for me. For once they finally showed the human cost of what Picard as Locutus had done. I think the conflict between them showed a basic difference between DS9 and TNG. TNG, as we know, rather strangely banished conflict between the main characters for the most part. Anyway, I think Sisko kept it barely within the bounds of being professional. But he kept it there. But understandably Picard was rather cold to him by the end of the meeting, and stayed that way at the beginning of the second and final meeting. I think these scenes served as great bookends.

I disagree with you about the acting of Avery Brooks. He's very different from the style of Shatner and Stewart. It took me years to get used to his acting style, but I think he has a commanding presence....
 
The simmering conflict between Sisko and Picard is one of the best things about Emissary for me. For once they finally showed the human cost of what Picard as Locutus had done. I think the conflict between them showed a basic difference between DS9 and TNG. TNG, as we know, rather strangely banished conflict between the main characters for the most part. Anyway, I think Sisko kept it barely within the bounds of being professional. But he kept it there. But understandably Picard was rather cold to him by the end of the meeting, and stayed that way at the beginning of the second and final meeting. I think these scenes served as great bookends.
Picard's presence is ultimately immaterial. He is there as a device that allows Sisko to express himself and differentiate his character from others in the franchise. To that end, Picard is dramatically useful, and I don't think one needs to be outraged that writers use fictional characters to express ideas and emotions that normally don't come to the fore in daily life.
 
Best of the first two seasons of DS9: (and I missing any other good ones?)

1. Emissary part 1
2. Emissary part 2
3. Past Prologue
6. Captive Pursuit
12. Vortex
15. Progress
19. Duet
20. Hands of the Prophets
21. Homecoming
22. Circle
23. Siege
25. Cardassians
28. Necessary Evil
34. Whispers
39. Blood Oath
40. Maquis part 1
41. Maquis part 2
42. The Wire
43. Crossover
44. The Collaborator
45. Tribunal
46. The Jem’ Hadar

That distills down the 46 "hours" of the first two seasons to a quite compelling 22 episodes.
 
I've now watched Crossover, The Collaborator, Tribunal, and The Jem'Hadar. What an excellent end to the second season. I somehow missed watching The Maquis two-parter, but I remember it fairly well. And if you add those in they were on a 7-episode run of very good to great episodes.
 
Original Promos for The Alternate:

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Somehow I'd never seen this episode until today! Don't know how I missed it. But it was an episode where the individual elements were more interesting than the episode as a whole. Quite a coincidence that the ruins are destroyed almost as soon as they get down there, infecting them all with a mysterious gas.

Anyway, I guess I'd give it a B-.
 
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Damn. I'm watching Business as Usual. The female companion of the guy Gaila introduced Quark to...looks like a healthy Vidiian. Yes, I checked. The same forehead bumps....
 
Did you not comment on Necessary Evil? Or are my eyes failing me?

I probably did miss commenting on this one, but I think it's an essential episode. Odo is one of my favorite characters, as is Kira, and this is another one that somehow I've missed in my multiple viewings of almost every other episode of the show. There are some episodes that I've seen maybe 6-8 times, but somehow this was like a dream come true: a brand-new (for me) DS9 episode that was quite good.

The whole photography and feel of it makes it like a futuristic noir. The moral ambiguity of the episode throughout was thought-provoking. It's great to see how Odo got the job. A very strong episode. I'd probably give it an "A."

Can't believe I missed this one!

Anyone else have comments about this one? What a contrast with TNG.
 
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