Spoilers Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Saw it on Sunday. As a fan of Man of Steel, this movie was wayyy too dark. Yes I get that it's dealing with dark subject matter, but when you're making Man of Steel look like a slapstick comedy in comparison you need to dial it back a bit. My favourite Batman movie is Begins, and even though that's pretty dark, there are still some lighter moments in it at least. Superman was reduced to a plot device, luckily Affleck gave a good performance as Batman, second only to Bale. I gave it a C rating in the poll, and if the reviews for Justice League say it is as grimdark as this one, I'll give it a pass. Luckily Suicide Squad seems like it's heading in a different direction.
Ah, but the studio will consider anything under a billion to be, if not a failure, a definite disappointment. Same thing happened to Amazing Spider-Man 2 (although I can't imagine BvS underperforming to that degree).
Were you comfortable with Transformers/GI Joe cartoon-like movies such as the Avengers films making all that cash?
I smiled when I saw that.
I saw someone yesterday illustrate how dumb Batman deciding not to kill superman based on them having mothers with the same name was by saying remember when Bruce rescues that little girl at the beginning of the movie and he asks her where her mother is and she points to the demolished Wayne Enterprises building and then he asks her whether her mother was named Martha and she says "no", to which Bruce replies with, "Well then, fuck off."
Yes, but its a Johnathan Kent that lives in a world closer to one where the US government actually admitted it would be willing to use flying robots to drop bombs on its citizens within its own country. Yeah, I'd be worried about my kid getting taken away and cut open by government scientists too in that position.
I'm sure you'll be glad to hear it posted another record, best Tuesday in March.
Guess word of mouth isn't as bad as some people make it out to be.
But it is in that world that we most need a father who will teach his son to stand up for truth, justice, and hope.
I think the key line is Flash saying "Am I too early?" Your explanation seems pretty spot on though.
And I perfer my character have a few flaws as perfection is boring, and usually makes a character a condescending asshole with a black and white morality which can usually be used to justify turning into a complete monster.
Screen junkies have over five million subscribers, and the content they produce translates into ad money, so no, not a COMPLETE waste of time.
To be fair, I don't think it's the simple mention of the name that does all that. I think it's just something that catches him off guard and helps break him out of this furious and enraged state he's been in-- just long enough for Lois to swoop in and explain what is happening with Martha Kent.
Obviously It's still pretty laughable and ridiculous how quickly Bruce puts aside that anger and hatred that he's been harboring all movie long and takes to calling Superman his friend (especially when he already acknowledged to Alfred that Superman wasn't their enemy now but only needed to be stopped for what he might do in the future), but I don't think it was just the name that caused all that.
I saw it yesterday and it was alright but it could have been more fun. Gave it a C. I wasn't too keen on the murderous branding gun wielding Batman. I know that he used guns before in the comics and that he killed before in prior movies (though Two-Face's death was out of necessity) but this just felt a bit overboard for Batman. Plus, they were trying hard in the comics, cartoons, and in Nolan's movie to make him not a killer.
Then it's a series of small things that build into an unenjoying experience. First, regardless that they never really stated where Gotham is in relationship to Metropolis but across the bay feels too close. How can Gotham have so much crime if Superman can hear everything that goes on over there. Second, why would the government give Lex complete unmonitored access to an alien spaceship? I just call bull on that. Third, this version of Superman does not have the heart the prior Supermen had. Yeah, he saves people on occasion but he's reckless. He didn't have to knock batman through that building. A choke hold was all that was needed to tell him "Hey, Lex is going to kill my mother". Fourth, that "Martha" turn around was odd. I expect it to turn into Batman realizing how reckless he was due to the loss of his parents (late in the game but redeemable, Black Widow like) but instead he has a bit of a tantrum, not Batman like at all. Fifth, lots of destruction porn. Michael Bay would have said to tone it down if he was able. Sixth, if an alien like Superman appeared, most people would be terrified of him and a statue would not be erected after the events of Man of Steel. Recognition in a news release, maybe, but he did nothing deserving of a statue. He so could have taken that fight to the moon or something. Seventh, it paid too much to fan service. I knew I was missing a bunch of references as the movie went on and I knew I wasn't going to remember everything I was missing to look up later so it made me less entertained. Eighth, Superman shook off the Kryptonite too quickly/was immune to it. He doesn't have many weaknesses and now they took away his biggest. Finally, they should have just called it Dawn of Justice. The Batman v Superman match lasted all of about eight minutes and they've been building this up for years. After seeing what Supes can do in Man of Steel, I felt short changed, knowing he could reck Batman if he wanted to.
The only reason the movie didn't fail (even after all that BS) was it's graphics. It visually looked like it jumped off of a comic page. Plus, it set up a grander world. That's why I'm enjoying the MCU so much and it's about time DC got on that in the movies. I'm really looking forward to a Wonder Woman movie. I just wish the DCU wasn't so dark.
Then it's a series of small things that build into an unenjoying experience. First, regardless that they never really stated where Gotham is in relationship to Metropolis but across the bay feels too close. How can Gotham have so much crime if Superman can hear everything that goes on over there. Second, why would the government give Lex complete unmonitored access to an alien spaceship? I just call bull on that. Third, this version of Superman does not have the heart the prior Supermen had. Yeah, he saves people on occasion but he's reckless. He didn't have to knock batman through that building. A choke hold was all that was needed to tell him "Hey, Lex is going to kill my mother". Fourth, that "Martha" turn around was odd. I expect it to turn into Batman realizing how reckless he was due to the loss of his parents (late in the game but redeemable, Black Widow like) but instead he has a bit of a tantrum, not Batman like at all. Fifth, lots of destruction porn. Michael Bay would have said to tone it down if he was able. Sixth, if an alien like Superman appeared, most people would be terrified of him and a statue would not be erected after the events of Man of Steel. Recognition in a news release, maybe, but he did nothing deserving of a statue. He so could have taken that fight to the moon or something. Seventh, it paid too much to fan service. I knew I was missing a bunch of references as the movie went on and I knew I wasn't going to remember everything I was missing to look up later so it made me less entertained. Eighth, Superman shook off the Kryptonite too quickly/was immune to it. He doesn't have many weaknesses and now they took away his biggest. Finally, they should have just called it Dawn of Justice. The Batman v Superman match lasted all of about eight minutes and they've been building this up for years. After seeing what Supes can do in Man of Steel, I felt short changed, knowing he could reck Batman if he wanted to.
The only reason the movie didn't fail (even after all that BS) was it's graphics. It visually looked like it jumped off of a comic page. Plus, it set up a grander world. That's why I'm enjoying the MCU so much and it's about time DC got on that in the movies. I'm really looking forward to a Wonder Woman movie. I just wish the DCU wasn't so dark.
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Well I did my bit to promote the film today. I was in my local branch of Waterstones - which for people outside Britain is a chain of bookshops - buying the trade paperbacks of 'Flash: Rebirth' and 'Green Arrow: Year One'. Noticing my purchases the bloke serving me asked whether I'd seen BVS yet and if so what did I think of it. I told him that I had, that I planned on seeing it again and for him to go and see it for himself. I did concede that there were problems in the first hour or so, but that it got better (at least in my eyes).
People who have hope can have flaws. People who stand up for the right thing can have flaws. Martin Luther King Jr. had extra marital affairs. Thomas Jefferson had 2 families simultaneously. Walt Disney was anti-semitic. Winston Churchill was an alcoholic. Ghandi said this about Hitler: "I do not consider [name omitted] to be as bad as depicted. He is showing an ability that is amazing, and he seems to be gaining his victories without much bloodshed."
I'm not saying Jonathan Kent can't have flaws, I'm saying that in 70 years of depiction one of his flaws has never been to tell his son to not do the right thing. To not help people. To let a school bus full of little kids drown. He was the one who pushed Clark to be the man that Superman was. So it's fine if you liked this version, but please understand that a large portion of the fan base would have liked to see the guy on screen be a faithful retelling of the guy in the comic books. Otherwise, why tell the story of Superman?