Babylon 5

[Tom Hendricks]

Ahhh the books, the books!!

I'm sure they do exist out there in the world, but here in the UK they have been a nightmare to try and track down. To the point where I have given up. Barring the occasional dog eared copy you can have shipped in from the US for £12 a copy (before import charges), no half decent selection of the 9 mythical books have popped up on eBay or Amazon Market Place.

And yet, though I am sure there are some lovely insights into Londo, Bester and an enigmatic Technomage (not to be named or spoken of for fear of spoilers), I've never been that pressed to want to go to such extreme lengths to read them. The series works wonderfully for me. It was always meant to be a "snapshot" in time. A retelling of a crucial moment in the Galaxy where a small group of heroes made a "big damned difference" and paid a "big damned price". And then the galaxy continued... in the same way that there are great stories to be told about the reformation of Europe or the work that Roosevelt tried to complete after the war, telling a story about the end of WW2 without the complete fallout does not diminish its power.

SiL is one of the great codas of modern TV. The story was told. It is as much a reflection on the journey as a whole as it is the story of Sheridan's final days. It's beautifully shot and the actors are at the tops of their games. But, almost more than that, Christopher Franke just tore me apart with his music. Until the likes of Bear McCreary, Max Richter and Michael Giacchino, there were not many TV music composers whose work was as integral (and its own unique character) as Frankes on B5. Every year he produced something beautiful and unique for the Series Theme and each year he would make the drama sing, or sob with his suites. But in SiL, when B5 is decommissioned, he killed me.

I am sad to hear that the finale did not touch you. Not because you do not think as I, but rather there is nothing more frustrating than reaching the end of the story and feeling unsatisfied. I hope (in a few years) you decide to give the show a re-watch and perhaps your opinion will change. Perhaps it will not. But, I have no doubt your B5 experience will be all the richer for it. No other show rewards a 2nd viewing as much as B5. Even if you do have to watch that terrible half of "Grey 17 is Missing" again

It is an ending but not the ending.

Hugo - The other half of "Grey 17 is Missing" is frankly brilliant

@Hugo Rune Which books are you looking for, I have all the B5 books and would be more then willing to send them to you. All they are doing is collecting dust in a box in my basement right now.

 

[Kail]

@Hugo Rune Which books are you looking for, I have all the B5 books and would be more then willing to send them to you. All they are doing is collecting dust in a box in my basement right now.

I love to read! I'd be happy to send you shipping for some.

 

[Reverend]

I do agree with posters above that it was a little disappointing that Garibaldi never really even displayed any guilt over the crisis and deaths that his drinking caused.

My take on that is that Garibaldi had eaten his dignity so many time in the past that he's become accustomed to quickly working through or outwardly suppressing his guilt. After all, what's one more humiliation to add to the collection?
Plus, he was raised catholic. Guilt is pretty much their whole thing. (kidding! )

 

[tomalak301]

I do agree with posters above that it was a little disappointing that Garibaldi never really even displayed any guilt over the crisis and deaths that his drinking caused

But the dude had been to hell and back so many times. He deserved happiness at the end.

 

[Timby]

^^ One thing I didn't like is that Garibaldi's alcoholism arc never felt resolved.

I do genuinely love B5, but of its many faults, the way Straczynski tries to illustrate alcoholism is one of the worst.

 

[Jan]

I do genuinely love B5, but of its many faults, the way Straczynski tries to illustrate alcoholism is one of the worst.

Curious why you say that? I found it a pretty realistic portrayal of a binge drinker.

 

[TheAlmanac]

VERY sorry to hear that you didn't care for 'Sleeping in Light'! 'Boring' is definitely not a word I've ever seen used to describe it.

"Boring" is definitely a word I would use to describe it, especially after all of the hype and praise I'd seen and heard elsewhere ahead of watching it.

In many ways, the worst part of "Sleeping in Light" to me was that the fifth season got made. The last third of that season spends much of its time putting the characters in the positions where we see them in the finale...giving the impression that their lives stay largely static for the next nineteen years.

Except, to me, your reaction is more appropriate for a plot-driven show. B5 was first and foremost a character-oriented show.

On the contrary, I feel like B5 is the very definition of a plot-driven show--when key characters can simply be replaced or moved around in order to make your preplanned plot happen, that plot is vastly more important than the characters in question.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Well that's life.

That's true. It has the virtue of being realistic.

Not sure what kind of resolution you were looking for. You can never just *stop* being an alcoholic (or addict of any kind) since there's no cure for it. You can go five, ten or twenty years without touching a drop but you're still an alcoholic. Likewise this isn't Garabaldi's first bout, or even his second, though I'm fairly certain it was his last.

Not a resolution to his alcoholism, but a resolution to the plotline. A confrontation, an admission, some regret-- something more than "I'm marrying into money and I'm absolved." Actually, even just saying that would have been better.

I do genuinely love B5, but of its many faults, the way Straczynski tries to illustrate alcoholism is one of the worst.

I just want closure, man.

 

[Reverend]

It's been years since I last watched the episodes in question, but IIRC Sheridan suspended him indefinitely (after Delenn talked him down), so there were professional repercussions. Most of what he did was covert, so publicly exposing his failure is obviously out of the question and as incompetent as it was, it was hardly a criminal act. I also recall Garibaldi being most definitely contrite in the aftermath, though it's not something that was overly dwelt upon.
It's worth remembering that Garibaldi has a goal/solution oriented personality. He's a doer and thus is not inclined towards moping around...at least not while he's sober.

As for swanning off to "marry into money", going back to Lise was what he'd intended from the get-go. Hell, he wanted her back way back in season one before she was a billionaire's widow. The money was never a factor.
Regardless, what would be served by calling that off just because he screwed up at his job? It's not as if Sheridan could or would forbid him from marrying the love of his life or being happy ever again. That'd be nuts.
Just because someone gets fired from one job doesn't mean he isn't allowed to have a successful career anywhere else. That's just vindictive thinking.

The long and short of it is that in real life, you often never get "closure", whatever the hell that really means. Thing happen, you move on. That's life. It's often strewn with questions that go unanswered, promises left unfulfilled and debts that are never fully redeemed. One of the things I liked about B5 was that when it came to the personal stories, they were often treated in this way. Sometimes we're given hints, sometimes not.
I appreciate a lot of people don't enjoy ambiguity in storytelling, but for me I think it's often important and preferable over contrived resolutions.

 

[Timby]

Curious why you say that? I found it a pretty realistic portrayal of a binge drinker.

I'm a recovering alcoholic, so I've been there, and Garibaldi's descent is almost cartoonish in how over-the-top it is.

 

[JWPlatt]

I do genuinely love B5, but of its many faults, the way Straczynski tries to illustrate alcoholism is one of the worst.

I have no experience with this. Could you explain and elaborate on your comment? Jan says it's realistic.

Also, in light of your above response, certainly entertaining drama is known to condense, accentuate and amplify.

 

[Jan]

I have no experience with this. Could you explain and elaborate on your comment? Jan says it's realistic.

Every alcoholic, like every person is different, I'm sure. While Garibaldi had a better sense of humor about it, his situation/reaction when falling off the wagon and then getting sober again was very much like my ex-husband's. He's the only alcoholic I ever was close to who would binge and then sober up, often for long periods of time.

 

[Starbreaker]

The $48 price point is a little ridiculous to me, but CNN Documents Babylon 5 is available to order. It's 5 hours of on-set footage.

http://www.cafepress.com/b5books#MainTrailer

 

[JWPlatt]

Cool. That looks interesting. I'd like the behind the scenes, mostly, to see multiple takes and such. I noticed Claudia mentioned, with the "?" inset, about the person "they got fired." I would hope she revisits her own drama along those lines for season 5.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I'm a recovering alcoholic, so I've been there, and Garibaldi's descent is almost cartoonish in how over-the-top it is.

Agreed. Both in "Survivors" and in season five. I never bought Garibaldi's falling off the wagon. I thought Franklin's addiction was played in a more naturalistic and believable manner.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

@Reverend, what's the episode with that exchange between G'Kar and the image of his father?

 

[Reverend]

@Reverend, what's the episode with that exchange between G'Kar and the image of his father?

'Dust to Dust'

 

[Steve Roby]

Except, to me, your reaction is more appropriate for a plot-driven show. B5 was first and foremost a character-oriented show. And structured like a novel so SiL would be the final denouement.

On the contrary, I feel like B5 is the very definition of a plot-driven show--when key characters can simply be replaced or moved around in order to make your preplanned plot happen, that plot is vastly more important than the characters in question.

I haven't done a rewatch, though I have the DVDs, so my memories are 20 years old. But the second half of the second season through to Severed Dreams or so had some of the most intense storytelling I'd seen in SFTV, and it was plot-driven all the way. It was all about putting pieces in place and then setting them into motion. Much the same was true of the Shadow War, though I didn't find it half as interesting as the B5 vs Earthgov stuff. And the impression I get from what little I've read about Crusade suggests the same would have been true there as well if the show had continued.

Not to start a B5-DS9 argument -- I watched them both religiously -- but I watched B5 for plot and DS9 for characters. The characters on B5 developed because the plot called for them to develop. The characters on DS9 developed as the writers watched the actors play things in unexpected ways and spark chemistry in unexpected places. Doesn't make one better than the other. But the plot vs character thing may be why I have done a DS9 rewatch but not a B5 rewatch so far -- I know what happens in B5, on the one hand, and on the other, I just enjoy watching DS9's characters do their thing.

All just my opinion, of course.

 

[diankra]

Plot vs character: jms said in mid- run that if it was World War 2, he could kill characters if the actors left, but it would still 'end' in a bunker in Berlin, whoever was closing in.

 

[DonIago]

'Dust to Dust'

I adore pretty much everything about that episode. I believe it was one of the first ones I saw and may have played a role in getting me hooked.

I'm inclined to agree with those who consider B5 plot-driven. It had fun and wonderful characters, to be sure, but I think they became what they became through their experiences.