When did Star Fleet Start Using Lasers as Weapons?

[C.E. Evans]

True enough. But that assessment was made before the guns were fired - and while they clearly did not prove decisive against Duras in "Judgment", they did exactly that in "The Expanse" a bit later.

Duras' ship initially took out the forward phase cannons before they could even be fired (it took the combined efforts of three other Earth ships to chase him away). Reed later in the episode said that the phase cannons could not penetrate the shields of Duras' ship, forcing the Enterprise to perform a loop maneuver in order to hit his weaker aft shields with the newly-installed photonic torpedoes.

Without doubt. But even that one runs into the problem of TPTB so very much wanting ENT to have phasers that what ends up on screen is phasers in practice. So why would Worf, out of all people and beasts, put theory ahead of practice?

It could be a simple case of what is commonly known as the phaser really didn't come about until the 23rd-Century, regardless if there was a precursor to them (which may or may not have even been widely known, come to think of it). If we truly wanted to get into the mindset of TPTB, it's even possible that Worf's comment was taken into account when they devised phase weapons in order to maintain continuity.

 

[T'Girl]

If a phase pistol is really a P.H.A.S.E. pistol (whatever that acronym could be) then the subsequent addition of the letter R could refer to a significantly improved weapon that is only remotely similar to it precursor, and this is what Worf was taking about when he stated that phaser (with an R) didn't exist in the 22rd century.

The thought that the hand laser might have been a supplementary cutting tool, and not a replacement for a phase/phaser, is interesting. Given that it was a rescue mission, Pike might not have felt the need for the landing party to be armed, but they were equipped with a utility cutter (problem with this is why wouldn't Number One beam down later with a actual weapon on her).

Later in "Man Trap," Carter never had a weapon, only the cutter he used in his work.

Something I've wondered about for years about "The Menagerie" is whether the landing parties combined hand lasers is what actually took off the top of the rocky knoll, and not the larger cannon.

Right from the start, did the cannon basically shoot through the empty air?

+

 

[Timo]

Quite possibly. Although we can't trust the rock formation to actually have been destroyed in the manner we think we witness, either... At that point of the story, the Talosians are playing all their sympathy cards, trying to appear like victims, and making the heroes pity Vina. Perhaps Pike is supposed to feel sorry about the "destroyed" elevator, too?

The guns we see in these early episodes do have multiple "business ends", and the heroes keep selecting new ones for new situations. If we label the biggest stud 1 and the smallest one 3, then the elevator doors are attacked by 1, and by some 2 which the users then adjust to 1; Pike breaches his holding cell window with 1 or 2; and Number One's gun is on 3 before she sets it on self destruct. Dr. Crater's setting is not visible, but Dr Korby's android assistant has 1 readied, and his love doll uses 1 for disintegrating the pair. So, perhaps 2 is the laser, optimal for cutting; 1 is kill phaser, optimal for killing, but a possible choice for cutting, too; and 3 is stun phaser?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[scotpens]

And yet each appearance of an actual "Menagerie" style hand weapon, it clearly is meant to be an earlier model of the weapon the crew is outfitted with 'now.' Thus, they may have been called lasers in "The Cage", but the name change to phaser is intended to be retroactive.

The use of "laser" in Captain Pike's time could simply be a linguistic anachronism, the way modern printers still talk of "leading" and "galley proofs." By the time of "The Cage," "laser" could have become a generic term for "energy weapon."

 

[Longinus]

But that's observably false in this particular case. Phase pistols and phaser pistols "work" exactly the same, just like diesel and gasoline cars (and nowadays electric ones, too!) work exactly the same regardless of their different engine systems. Worf wouldn't praise phasers for their beautiful theoretical basis, but for their ability to do what phase pistols also demonstrably can do.

Your observation is wrong. Phasers disintegrate matter, phase pistols don't. That's pretty damn significant difference.

 

[VulcanMindBlown]

Now I remember why I don't come here anymore. Thanks, all.

Lol, sorry about the flame war.

The Bottom Line

I guess the bottom line is that Gene Roddenbury wasn't satisfied with the fact that lasers in real life don't kill or stun people, because they just cut things down. It wasn't meant to be taken as the final product.

Personally, I think the creators of licensed Star Trek works should in corporate lasers into Starfleet during AT LEAST around the Pike Era.

Phaser stands for Phased Energy Rectification. [1] Somewhere along the way, the Phase weapons of the ENT/22nd Century era earned the "R" for Rectification. I remember that someone posted, in another thread probably, that for phaser, they could have combined the Phase and LaseR = Phaser.

[1]http://www.acronymfinder.com/PHASER.html

 

[FormerLurker]

Quite possibly. Although we can't trust the rock formation to actually have been destroyed in the manner we think we witness, either... At that point of the story, the Talosians are playing all their sympathy cards, trying to appear like victims, and making the heroes pity Vina. Perhaps Pike is supposed to feel sorry about the "destroyed" elevator, too?

Timo Saloniemi

To the point that the Talosians may well have deceived the Enterprise crew regarding the shipboard cannon, letting them think it was ineffective against the elevator doors, yet it never fired at all, and it was the handheld weapons that did all the damage.

 

[TIN_MAN]

To the point that the Talosians may well have deceived the Enterprise crew regarding the shipboard cannon, letting them think it was ineffective against the elevator doors, yet it never fired at all, and it was the handheld weapons that did all the damage.

Well, we can't be sure of anything the characters say since the Talosions could be messing with their minds, making them think phasers are lasers?

On, the other hand, if memory serves, it's only the pistols that are referred to as "hand lasers", the ship’s cannon is not referred to as a laser? So perhaps the ships cannon is a phaser cannon while only the pistols are lasers? If Phasers are more advanced than phase pistols, then maybe Starfleet hadn't miniaturized the tech at the time the "Cage /Menagerie" takes place?

Disclaimer: These are a few possible “in universe” explanations and this poster is merely trying to participate in the creative fun of the thread. But acknowledges that there are “real world” alternatives to be considered and is in no way ignoring or devaluing such alternatives.

 

[Noname Given]

Obviously, it was sometime before Captain Pike and after Star Trek: Enterprise.

Are there any books that divulge into this?

I'd say chalk it up to pilot episode syndrome. Another question you could as as a result is when did Star Fleet/Earth ships start using a "Time-Warp Drive"?

From "The Cage"
Captain Christopher Pike: "This is the captain. Our destination is the Talos star group. Our time warp, factor seven."

 

[Kor]

The Time Warp system was there to bypass the Time Barrier.... whatever the heck that is.

"And you won't believe how fast you can get back. Well the time barrier's been broken! Our new ships can--"

Kor

 

[Timo]

Or then they did a fadeout on the technobabble: "Our time, warp factor seven, (will be about six hours, during which we will etc.)".

So perhaps the ships cannon is a phaser cannon while only the pistols are lasers?

FWIW, the pedestal device creates a multicolored light show almost identical to that of Kirk's explicit "phaser rifle" in the second pilot, while the sidearms fire dull red beams.

"And you won't believe how fast you can get back. Well the time barrier's been broken! Our new ships can--"

"-- fly a much shorter route now that the Time Barrier is in pieces and no longer blocking our way. Of course our old ships can do that as well now, but I am piloting one of the new ones!"

Timo Saloniemi

 

[VulcanMindBlown]

I remember in ST:III The Search for Spock they had "Trans-Warp Drive," but obviously that project didn't pan out.

I guess it's like the "lasers" deal in Star Trek.

 

[FormerLurker]

Well, Sulu did say she was SUPPOSED to have transwarp drive. Well, she may have SUPPOSED to have it, but even it she did, that doesn't mean it worked. Even without Scotty fiddling with it.

 

[Drone]

Lol, sorry about the flame war.

The Bottom Line

I guess the bottom line is that Gene Roddenbury wasn't satisfied with the fact that lasers in real life don't kill or stun people, because they just cut things down. It wasn't meant to be taken as the final product.

Personally, I think the creators of licensed Star Trek works should in corporate lasers into Starfleet during AT LEAST around the Pike Era.

Phaser stands for Phased Energy Rectification. [1] Somewhere along the way, the Phase weapons of the ENT/22nd Century era earned the "R" for Rectification. I remember that someone posted, in another thread probably, that for phaser, they could have combined the Phase and LaseR = Phaser.

[1]http://www.acronymfinder.com/PHASER.html

Is it possible that Roddenberry used the word laser in the original iteration, and then, upon further reflection or other's advice, or becoming aware of the real world impact of lasers, simply decided that a newer nomenclature was needed to do justice to the development of military tech, especially when considering that lasers as a term and reality were already widely known in the contemporary society? To properly give the sense that weaponry had advanced in potency and design in all the intervening years, to some degree, although not to the same extent as ship propulsion say, a newly named type would have to be introduced with capabilities and a basic working description that would definitively be distinguished from lasers. After all, Lost In Space, set in 1997, employed lasers, a comparison that Roddenberry probably wouldn't have found very palatable over time. So lasers, could have been allowed to remain in use for more utilitarian purposes, but something new and distinct was needed as an expression of this culture's might and power.

 

[scotpens]

Is it possible that Roddenberry used the word laser in the original iteration, and then, upon further reflection or others' advice, or becoming aware of the real world impact of lasers, simply decided that a newer nomenclature was needed to do justice to the development of military tech, especially when considering that lasers as a term and reality were already widely known in the contemporary society?

According to TMOST, that's pretty much what happened:

A number of early changes were simply an effort to keep Star Trek's technology ahead of present-day scientific developments. This was the reason Gene reversed himself on an earlier decision in the "planning" stage and discarded the term "Laser," substituting the term "Phaser."

We were two days into filming on the second pilot when we realized that lasers might very well become commonplace by the time the show got on the air, or at least within the next couple of years. Rather than run the risk of being outdated, we decided to say "phaser" instead. The reason we picked phaser is the "phasing" principle in physics by which power can be increased. It was logical, and it sounded good, so we used it. We didn't want people saying to us three years from now, "Oh, come on now, lasers can't do that."

(Boldface type substituted for ALL CAPS in the original, because ALL CAPS is a bitch to read.)

As a side note, Harvey P. Lynn, the RAND Corporation physicist who was a technical adviser to Gene Roddenberry during preproduction on "The Cage," thought "laser" might date the show and suggested some new acronyms for Star Trek's energy weapons. His suggestions included HEAT gun (High Energy Amplification Transport); BEE gun (Beam of Electromagnetic Energy); ACE gun (Amplified Coherent Energy); and CLEB gun (Coherent Light Energy Beam).

Lynn may have been a good scientist, but he didn't know anything about good writing. Can you imagine Capt. Kirk ordering, "Fire forward CLEB guns, full power!"

 

[Avro Arrow]

Lynn may have been a good scientist, but he didn't know anything about good writing. Can you imagine Capt. Kirk ordering, "Fire forward CLEB guns, full power!"

Not now, no. But if they *had* gone with this in the 1960s, I'm sure it would seem perfectly normal to us now, and someone could legitimately say something like "Can you imagine Capt. Kirk ordering, "Fire forward phasers, full power!'". They're both made up terms; one just seems legitimate to us now because of familiarity.

 

[scotpens]

Not now, no. But if they *had* gone with this in the 1960s, I'm sure it would seem perfectly normal to us now, and someone could legitimately say something like "Can you imagine Capt. Kirk ordering, "Fire forward phasers, full power!'". They're both made up terms; one just seems legitimate to us now because of familiarity.

Phaser sounds cool and scientific. CLEB sounds silly.

YMMV, as they say.

 

[TIN_MAN]

Just to throw more fuel on the fire, in ST: E T'pol calls the phase pistol a "phasar" while speaking Vulcan, so maybe that was where Starfleet personnel picked up the term for eventual standard usage, with just slight modification?

 

[scotpens]

Just to throw more fuel on the fire, in ST: E T'pol calls the phase pistol a "phasar" while speaking Vulcan, so maybe that was where Starfleet personnel picked up the term for eventual standard usage, with just slight modification?

She was probably saying it with a Vulcan accent. Like the Ferengi have that weird way of calling Earth people "hew-mons."

 

[TIN_MAN]

^ ^ Yeah, that's basically what I meant, either way it's tantamount to the same thing.