Haven't read the novels, but I say whichever canon tells a better story wins. Doesn't matter who owns the IP.
Pain... Terrible pain! (TFA spoilers)
- Thread starter Gaith
- Start date
I think JJ did awesome!
There were some great lines in the movie that captured the fun of the OT.
"HAN SOLO!!!"
"Oh boy... (Han grin) Hello, Mas..."
Later...
"We'll use the Force!"
"... That's not how the Force works!"
"That sounds pretty scary..."
*Wookiee growl that sounds like, "I know, right?"*
"You were very brave."
There were some great lines in the movie that captured the fun of the OT.
"HAN SOLO!!!"
"Oh boy... (Han grin) Hello, Mas..."
Later...
"We'll use the Force!"
"... That's not how the Force works!"
"That sounds pretty scary..."
*Wookiee growl that sounds like, "I know, right?"*
"You were very brave."
When it's not spending huge amounts of time on Lothal, that is.
But, they are garnering a lot of attention from the Empire, with Inquisitors, and Darth Vader and the like. The location may not be galactic, but the implications and the focus of the Empire certainly are.
See, I suspect I'd like 90% of what TFA does but this 10% is the problem right now.
So, I'm running a couple of interesting little experiments:
First, wait until the trio is out on DVD, probably 2020 and watch the lot. It may be that these films are akin to the New Jedi Order arc. A series that made decisions I greatly disagree with, yet concluded incredibly well with the Unifying Force. Still disagree with the earlier moves, but that conclusion kicked all kinds of arse. Plus, it's clearly Part 1 of 3.
Second, enjoy the other stories that are being done, as they might act as a sort of major Extended Cut to TFA's Mass Effect 3. (That and I do have a sense of the main trio due to Rucka's Before the Awakening.)
No idea how it'll work out, for either one.
Is this a recurring theme in fiction, or something?
Damned if I know. It never used to be. The good guys always won and lived, and the bad guys always lost. That's the way it should always be but in the last decade or so, the bad guys are the good guys, the good guys are the bad guys, and everything is shades of gray. I wouldn't mind it so much if it was the exception to the rule, but it's become the rule, and THAT'S what I dislike.
I think it might be an element of post-modernism running through fiction writing. It is not sufficient for the good guys to just be good guys. There has to be nuance, angst, and, as you said, shades of gray. The new Daredevil series is probably the best example of this fact, with Matt Murdock going through all kinds of trials, and questioning whether or not he is doing the right thing. Even the viewer is left to question if Hell's Kitchen is better or worse for Daredevil's efforts.
As much as I'm annoyed by TFA's treatment of the Big 3, the oldEU materials were not exactly kind to them either. There may not be the "shades of gray" but it certainly took them through trial after trial, each one rougher than the last. I mean, I never got the impression good guys had it easy.
I don't particularly care for it either, as I like black and white. That is the appeal of the original SW-very black and white. But, that doesn't seem to be the way of storytelling now.
So what you are saying is they have had their day and its a good thing to screw up their happy ending by depressingly killing them off, making Luke a depressed screw up that let the Galaxy go to crap in a space of only 30 years? So in your opinion to make way for new characters the older characters have to all have crappy endings? Should we expect the same sad ending for the current younger crop of characters in 30 years to make way for new characters?
I think that has always been an element of fiction writing throughout human history, and is in no way something new. Unless Shakespeare or Homer are considered new, modern writers.
What you are talking about is literature from the pulp fiction era, where there were no challenging themes or complex stories because, quite frankly, not enough of the public were literate enough to read complex stories. Also life was tough for the vast majority of the people. so they craved stories with heroes who always saved the day.
Yes, in my opinion. That is what makes for compelling drama. I personally want characters who have flaws and struggles they strive to overcome. I also realize that having a flaw and struggle free existence is not only impossible, but would be pretty damn boring.
Yes, I do consider them to be modern writers
Actually, my point wasn't that it was new, but I think the increased prevalence is part of a very postmodern culture, as well as the general cynicism that seems to dominate news and political scenes. The idea of "happily ever after" is foreign in many people's experiences.
Life still is tough for a lot of people, perhaps in different ways.
I'm more talking about the cycles of literature and culture in general. I know I can read history and find similar stories throughout. I just think it dominates now because of lots of different factors.
This is interesting, in regards to this specific film. The point is that Han, Luke and Leia fought and sacrificed to destroy the Empire, and that they would watch their hard work undone in a matter of a generation is rather frustrating. It takes the victory of ROTJ and makes it appear meaningless, is the general point. Others can speak to it better than I, without a doubt.
My general problem is that why is TFA guilty of it by not the old EU? Similar events unfold and that seems to be more acceptable than what happens in the movie. It feels like, to me, that TFA is being treated as more tragic when, in the EU, the New Republic barely lasted a generation before the Vong showed up and screwed everyone over.
I don't necessarily care for all the plot points of TFA, especially Han's death, but I certainly can understand where that plot point is coming from. For the most part, I cannot understand the EU save for the idea that it is a Star Wars version of "A Series of Unfortunate Events."
The characters had flaws in the original trilogy but hey succeeded with them. Why give them all crappy endings just because they are older? I mean Han was killed by his emo son for petes sake and Luke is looking to go out on the same trajectory. These were the heroes that saved the galaxy and pretty much let it fall back into darkness before most of them even reached retirement age. That's not drama its just a crappy plot line to let the younger and not nearly as iconic characters take over.
Ahem:
(Post #20)Well, I certainly don't truck with the whole old EU. The OT, the Thrawn Trilogy, and maybe Shadows of the Empire, and that's about enough for moi.
The Thrawn Trilogy takes place only five years after Endor, with Leia pregnant for much of it and on the run. The Empire is still a major threat and for much of the story it seems like the victory at Endor will be for nothing. At the story progresses things turn around, but TFA is only the first film of a trilogy. Heir to the Empire ended with an almost total Imperial victory as any result was good for the Empire, just one was better than the other result that they got.
Happily ever after is boring... not too much you can do with a "hey everybody's doing great" story outline.
This +1.
And "happily ever after" doesn't happen in real life. I like my Star Wars to be a little more nuanced than some "la-dee-dah" fantasy.
Kor
If TPTB had stuck with the "everything is awesome" routine than there would no longer be any more Star Wars films. That would suck.
