Spoilers The Flash - Season 2

[DigificWriter]

E2 Barry and E2 Joe might not have gotten along, but E2 Iris was clearly close to her dad and would therefore have him listed on speed-dial.

People are reading way too much into this thing.

 

[Romulan_spy]

This was a fantastic part 1. Seeing Earth-2 was great. As others have stated, the retro-futuristic look was very cool. The ep also did a great job of showing us these alt-characters. Iris and Barry-2 are married, Iris is a cop, Joe does not like Barry-2, Caitlin and Ronnie are villains, Cisco-2 is a villain etc. I particularly liked the scene where Barry talks to his mom from Earth-2. He really sells the emotion in that scene very well. And then we get a killer cliffhanger with Zoom showing up and capturing the Flash. WOW. Can't wait for part 2.

 

[Greg Cox]

I had no idea Bellows and Tina were also from the 90s series.

And Tina is played by the same actress, no less. (Amanda Pays, who was the female lead and love interest on the 90s show.)

 

[Christopher]

Confirmed locations within the Arrowverse's internal Multiverse:
* Earth-1 ("Prime Earth" for the Arrowverse; setting of Arrow, The Flash, Vixen, Legends of Tomorrow, and Constantine)

* Earth-2

* 90s-Flash-Earth (setting of the 1990s Flash series starring John Wesley Shipp)

* Supergirl-Earth (setting of Supergirl)

And I still think the '90 Flash was part of the DC Animated Universe, because of Hamill-Trickster's appearance in JLU: "Flash and Substance," and because of stylistic elements like Shirley Walker's Flash motif being reused in Superman: TAS "Speed Demons" and both The Flash and B:TAS sharing an Art Deco/retro-future aesthetic. (Although Barry must have turned the Flash mantle over to Wally West sometime before "Speed Demons." That episode never specified which Flash it was, but it sure seemed more like Wally.)

So, Earth 2 Barry, who is not The Flash, has on his speed dial Bruce Wayne, Hal Jordan & Diana Prince?
Interesting.

Maybe they aren't superheroes on Earth-2. Well, hard to explain how Diana of Themiscyra would be on the West-Allen family's speed dial in that case.

That shot of John Wesley Shipp as the Flash is a very famous one. It was when he was first revealed in full costume in a street at night. BUT as I said early the image has been flipped. You can tell because the Lighting Bolt is REVERSED! No way that was a mistake. Jonah Hex, Supergirl, the Legion ring where all not flipped. So maybe that was not the Flash for the old tv series but another similar Earth.

I think you're reading too much into it. A lot of times in TV and movies, an image will be flipped so that it fits the composition and sight lines of the scene better. For instance, I was recently watching the Powers TV series (which is out on DVD now), and there was a scene where a man and a woman were having a conversation in a room with a world map on the back wall. There was a close-up of the man standing by the map, and I realized that the map was backward. In the adjacent wide shot, he was standing by the right side of the map (from our POV) and looking toward the woman on our left, but they must've decided they needed a closer reaction shot of him and the only one they had must've been a shot from a different part of the scene where he was standing by the left side of the map and looking right. So they flipped it and hoped we wouldn't notice that South America was backward.

Here's a page with more examples. It happens routinely enough that I doubt it was meant to have some special meaning here.

 

[dahj]

That was a pretty great episode, can't wait for part 2.

One issue I have a major problem with though is when Joe was hurt and ended up in the hospital Barry not letting other Barry be there for other Iris was just not cool. Him caring what happens to alternate versions of his family is understandable, but replacing his doppelganger and preventing him for being there for his wife in this situation is just so wrong.

 

[DigificWriter]

Inspired by a conversation I've been having on another board, I wanted to point out that the Arrowverse has established that the mechanics of its internal Multiverse incorporate the idea of multiversal doppelgangers being entirely different people (with entirely different names, backstories, etc.), which creates the justification for potentially incorporating stuff like Smallville, Lois & Clark, and the Donnerverse movies since there are characters in those universes who have or will have "doppelgangers" on series that already currently exist within the framework of the "Arrow-Derived Multiversal Reality Construct".

 

[Christopher]

Inspired by a conversation I've been having on another board, I wanted to point out that the Arrowverse has established that the mechanics of its internal Multiverse incorporate the idea of multiversal doppelgangers being entirely different people (with entirely different names, backstories, etc.), which creates the justification for potentially incorporating stuff like Smallville, Lois & Clark, and the Donnerverse movies since there are characters in those universes who have or will have "doppelgangers" on series that already currently exist within the framework of the "Arrow-Derived Multiversal Reality Construct".

Has it, though? Are you talking about Jay Garrick being the Flash? I wouldn't call that a doppelganger, just a different person adopting the same nickname. To date, the Arrowverse has only established parallel-world doppelgangers as being physically identical people with different life histories. They do have the same names except in the case of Jay Garrick and Hunter Zolomon, but that was explained as the result of the latter being adopted as a child.

True, if last night's glimpse of the John Wesley Shipp Flash was meant to be confirmation that the '90s series is part of the multiverse, that does open the door for non-identical counterparts. Tina McGee, James Jesse, and Anthony Bellows are identical in appearance and similar in life history in both realities, but one universe's Barry Allen looks like the other's Henry Allen, and there are non-equivalent versions of Henry and Nora Allen, Iris West, Leonard Snart, and Linda Park. And if you agree with my take that the '90 Flash was set in the DC Animated Universe, that throws in a ton of other non-identical counterparts or approximate equivalents (including Green Arrow, Black Canary, Firestorm, Atom, etc.). Still, I'm hesitant to read too much into a single glimpse. It's a possibility, but it hasn't been confirmed yet.

 

[dahj]

^^
Batman and Superman were fictional characters within '90 Flash series, Barry walked by a theater showing Donner's Superman and Burton's Batman in one episode.

 

[DigificWriter]

I'm hesitant to read too much into a single glimpse. It's a possibility, but it hasn't been confirmed yet.

I don't understand why, but okay.

For me, though, the idea I postulated does very much have confirmed and concrete validity based on what we've been shown and/or told.

 

[Dick Whitman]

^^
Batman and Superman were fictional characters within '90 Flash series, Barry walked by a theater showing Donner's Superman and Burton's Batman in one episode.

I think its best not to take that scene too seriously. I remember that scene when the episode first aired. Was annoyed when it was cut from the Sci Fi Channel reruns. Its a fun Easter Egg. If you need an explanation of how Superman and Batman exist in that world those where documentaries. Or Biopics similar to how we have films giving dramatizations of famous people's lives. But it would be very different from those actual films. The public would not know their secret identities.

The actual comics have done similar moments. It was very common during the time frame the Tim Burton movies where out to see Theatre marquees in the backgrounds of DC stories with BATMAN being the film shown. They had no bearing on the stories and there is no way it could be the same film we got in our world. It would have revealed Bruce Wayne's secret.

 

[Christopher]

I don't understand why, but okay.

Scientific method. Or just patience, the recognition that it's not necessary to jump to a conclusion the moment you first get a single shred of evidence. It's smarter to wait and keep an open mind until more evidence presents itself.

I think its best not to take that scene too seriously. I remember that scene when the episode first aired. Was annoyed when it was cut from the Sci Fi Channel reruns. Its a fun Easter Egg. If you need an explanation of how Superman and Batman exist in that world those where documentaries. Or Biopics similar to how we have films giving dramatizations of famous people's lives.

I'm aware of how that scene of the Superman and Batman movies conflicts with my theory about the show being in the DCAU -- along with the episode where Barry jokingly referred to a reporter as "Lois Lane." But there are similar continuity errors within the DCAU itself. A first-season Static Shock episode had Virgil and Richie refer to Clark Kent/Superman as a fictional character, with knowledge of his secret identity, but in the second and later seasons, the show was folded into the DCAU and Static crossed over with Batman, Superman, and most of the Justice League. There's also a Superman: TAS episode where Lois Lane references Wonder Woman, years before Diana made her debut as Wonder Woman in Justice League. So if S:TAS, JL, and Static Shock can be counted as sharing a universe despite those inconsistencies, there's no reason The Flash ('90) can't fit as well. Sometimes you just have to gloss over such minor details to make a continuity work.

(The "biopic" theory wouldn't work, because Superman didn't debut in the DCAU until years after The Flash.)

 

[kirk55555]

A great episode of The Flash. The world was pretty cool, I like how its style is so different from the normal Earth. The evil versions of characters from Earth 1 were pretty entertaining. I wonder if we'll see Earth-1 Cisco get those vibration powers eventually, and maybe see him fight some crime.

The little glimpses of other worlds was exciting. I hope we get to see the Legion of Superheroes. I could see them showing up in Legends of Tomorrow. Also, I really want to see Barry meet 90s Flash. Hopefully that will happen eventually. Overall, this was a fun episode, and I can't wait to see more.

 

[DigificWriter]

Scientific method. Or just patience, the recognition that it's not necessary to jump to a conclusion the moment you first get a single shred of evidence. It's smarter to wait and keep an open mind until more evidence presents itself.

I guess I don't understand what other evidence you need when it comes to the '90s Flash series having been officially confirmed to be part of the "Arrow-Derived Multiversal Reality Construct" (which is a better name than "Arrowverse Multiverse").

Which brings me to an off-topic issue that is bothering me right now: Wikipedia refuses to accept and acknowledge that the characters of NBC's Constantine occupy the same Earth as the characters of Arrow, The Flash, Vixen, and Legends of Tomorrow even though we have direct confirmation from both Marc Guggenheim and Wendy Mericle affirming that such is the case.

 

[davejames]

I know the news has been out there for awhile, but it was still pretty awesome to see that brief shot of Supergirl on screen.

Although I think I geeked out more over the image of Shipp's Flash. I know it's probably too much to hope that we might get an actual visit someday from that alternate universe Flash, but it doesn't seem totally beyond the realm of possibility now. Especially with all the other crazy things the writers have come up with for this show.

The rest of the episode was a lot of fun as well, although for such an important mission involving an incredibly dangerous villain, it did feel like Barry was being awfully careless and reckless through most of it. I know the writers were trying to have as much fun with the premise as they could, but by this point it still feels like Barry should be a LOT smarter and more disciplined in how he does things. And should not just be blundering around like a complete newbie.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Not only are there multiple universes; there are also alternate timelines, realities, and realms. So one could say the "Arrowverse" and the DCAU JLU are two different universes, but Superman traveling to the future and meeting Vandal Savage on an episode of JLU is an alternate timeline of the DCAU. I would like to see Supergirl take on Superwoman from the Antimatter Universe, or Flash/Barry vs. Johnny Quick.

 

[sojourner]

Barry got Joe-2 and Deadshot-2 killed. He was beyond reckless. He should have excused himself from Iris-2 the minute they met and stayed on mission.

 

[Icemizer]

I am really thinking that either Iris-2 or Barry-2 will not survive the next episode. I really hope that Barry-2 does not don the Flash outfit in order to fake out Zoom and give Barry a chance to escape.

 

[Saga]

it was nice to see evil versions of certain characters. but killing them all off in one episode seems like a big waste.

 

[dahj]

^^
It certainly has not been a good year if you're an Earth-2 villain.

 

[Christopher]

I guess I don't understand what other evidence you need when it comes to the '90s Flash series having been officially confirmed to be part of the "Arrow-Derived Multiversal Reality Construct" (which is a better name than "Arrowverse Multiverse").

I don't agree that a single Easter-egg image constitutes "official confirmation." It's a hint, that's all. I'd certainly like to believe that's what they intended, but it's just a wink to the audience at this point. For all we know, it could just be an in-joke.

And there's no rush. It's not like there's a reward for the person who jumps to a conclusion the fastest. Usually it's the other way around. There's no harm in waiting to see if they follow up before making a firm decision. It's not unhealthy to be undecided or unconvinced. On the contrary -- it gives you more options, more freedom to adapt to new information.

Which brings me to an off-topic issue that is bothering me right now: Wikipedia refuses to accept and acknowledge that the characters of NBC's Constantine occupy the same Earth as the characters of Arrow, The Flash, Vixen, and Legends of Tomorrow even though we have direct confirmation from both Marc Guggenheim and Wendy Mericle affirming that such is the case.

The Arrowverse Wiki does. But I can't blame Wikipedia for doing it differently. After all, it's not like the world within the fiction is real. A show's own wiki can treat it as such, but Wikipedia is a real-world reference source, and in the real world, Constantine was from a different network and production company and was a separate entity legally and logistically, despite what was retroactively claimed by a different, later show.