Refugees in the EU

[Robert Maxwell]

So some of you guys know how Swedish and Germany's Merkel had launched operations to censor anti-immigration posts yet this fact is ignored

Prove it.

....and some of you guys feel any complaint posted outside the mainstream CNN, BBC, Süddeutsche Zeitung, Frankfurter Rundschau, Die Zeit, MSNBC...they must all be Right-wing conspiracy theories or KKK propaganda?

Well, yeah, actually. Stuff spouted by disreputable sources with a history of lying and fearmongering shouldn't be taken at face value. Why do you hate intellectual rigor?

and what about the reports of missing children?

Where?

is this the report of rightwing racists?

You tell me.

I think this is why you guys get called the regressive-left

I think you have no idea why anything is called anything.

10,000 migrant children lost amid refugee crisis in Europe

http://globalnews.ca/news/2490304/10000-migrant-children-lost-amid-refugee-crisis-in-europe/
Authorities dealing with Europe’s migrant crisis have lost track of about 10,000 unaccompanied children amid fears that organized crime gangs are beginning to exploit the vulnerable youngsters, a senior official at the European Union’s police agency said Monday.

Oh, so now you care so much about the refugees.

Europol Chief of Staff Brian Donald said that the figure “would be a conservative estimate across all the countries that are dealing with this migrant crisis” over the past 12-18 months.

The revelation that so many youngsters are unaccounted for is the latest worrying development in the migrant crisis and underscores the risks faced by people fleeing conflict, poverty and persecution in the Middle East, Africa and Asia even once they have reached the apparent safety of Europe.

So you're saying the EU needs to do more to help them. I'm glad we agree.

Donald said the estimate of 10,000 missing was based on reports by law enforcement authorities, governments and non-governmental organizations.

“They’re lost in the system,” he said of the minors. “I think our concern is that we know that there are people out there who will exploit minors. We know there are people who will take them and use them for their own purposes.”

That's terrible. Definitely sounds like the EU needs to get more involved to help these people.

 

[Gov Kodos]

So some of you guys know how Swedish and Germany's Merkel

When did Germany take over Sweden? Has anyone informed the Swedes?

 

[{ Emilia }]

The thought of Merkel actively censoring Die Zeit, Der Spiegel and Süddeutsche Zeitung just amuses the hell out of me. Especially considering Spiegel's history of not giving a fuck about political pressure, haha.
The last time a politician tried to stop Spiegel from reporting something was in the early 1960s and it caused him his office as minister of defense.

How would she even do that?

Is she gonna show up in the chief editor's room with Luca Brasi?

 

[Gov Kodos]

The thought of Merkel actively censoring Die Zeit, Der Spiegel and Süddeutsche Zeitung just amuses the hell out of me. Especially considering Spiegel's history of not giving a fuck about political pressure, haha.
The last time a politician tried to stop Spiegel from reporting something was in the early 1960s and it caused him his office as minister of defense.

How would she even do that?

Is she gonna show up in the chief editor's room with Luca Brasi?

Send the Iguana with an offer they can't refuse.

 

[atlantalliance]

How would she even do that?

I had a feeling you read a lot of German news media, however you do know the Swedish Government and Swedish Police have been covering up reports for a long while now?

You tell me.

The Apostate, Secular, Reformist, Atheist and ex-Muslim movements are not going to go away, if anything these movements are going to get stronger, the phrase 'regressive left' its on yahoo buzz, its on blogs, its on chat rooms, on google trends the term is trending OFF THE CHARTS

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So what's so 'racist' about what this woman is saying, an ex-Muslim here calling out the Regressive Left. Islam told from a woman who grew up as Muslim in the Middle East.

 

[Gov Kodos]

I had a feeling you read a lot of German news media, however you do know the Swedish Government and Swedish Police have been covering up reports for a long while now?

Do you know Sweden and Germany are different countries?

the phrase 'regressive left' its on yahoo buzz, its on blogs, its on chat rooms, on google trends the term is trending OFF THE CHARTS

So is Kim Kardashian. The racism and bigotry folks keep bringing up is from noticing what you keep espousing.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I had a feeling you read a lot of German news media, however you do know the Swedish Government and Swedish Police have been covering up reports for a long while now?

Prove it.

The Apostate, Secular, Reformist, Atheist and ex-Muslim movements are not going to go away, if anything these movements are going to get stronger, the phrase 'regressive left' its on yahoo buzz, its on blogs, its on chat rooms, on google trends the term is trending OFF THE CHARTS

OFF THE CHARTS

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So what's so 'racist' about what this woman is saying, an ex-Muslim here calling out the Regressive Left. Islam told from a woman who grew up as Muslim in the Middle East.

I don't know. As a rule, I don't watch videos a) recorded in profile mode and b) from inside a car that purport to be informative, unless they are actually about something to do with cars (and I'm gonna guess this one isn't).

 

[Kai "the spy"]

This news made the rounds last week:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-toilets-slipped-date-rape-drugs-drinks.html

German university city with a Green party migrant-supporting administration has banned refugees from several nightclubs following complaints from females of sexual harassment and theft.

Women have allegedly complained to managers of clubs in Freiburg, southwest Germany, about being fed date-rape drugs and being accosted in toilets.

Another woman claimed she had been raped while a bouncer was allegedly stabbed by a migrant.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ped-date-rape-drugs-drinks.html#ixzz3z21rDZKc
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

As this happened in my hometown, I can give some more insight:

The nightclub in question was the "White Rabbit", an left-alternative nightclub. After several incidents, like those described in the linked article, but also of women being followed into the ladies' room, the door to a toilet being kicked in, and of people dropping a bicycle onto the bouncer from the club roof, they made an internal decision of not letting refugees in, but inviting them to an integration class about how to behave properly in a German nightclub, at the end of which they'd be given a card. Refugees with this card would be let into the club.

Now, there was nothing racist about it. The people running the "White Rabbit" didn't make the decision lightly, and they informed their employees with an internal email with the header reading "Refugees Welcome, Assholes Not".

This internal email was send by an as of yet unnamed person to the media and members of the new right-wing party AfD ("Alternative für Deutschland", Alternative for Germany). The header "Refugees Welcome, Assholes Not" was replaced with a simple "For your information".

This led to very superficial reports, knee-jerk reaction from both left ("That's racist!") and right ("See, we told you!"), the "White Rabbit" quickly became "all Freiburg nightclubs" and the integration class was dropped from most reports.

The most bizarre part is, at that point the "White Rabbit" had already abandoned this plan, because it didn't turn out to be practical.

What nightclubs like the "White Rabbit" are now actually doing is refusing groups of men entry, and they urge female visitors to seek the help of the staff in uncomfortable situations, and the staff will try to talk to any drunk woman leaving with a man to make sure she actually wants to.

And the lesson is, don't fall for sensationalism.

 

[atlantalliance]

The nightclub in question was the "White Rabbit", an left-alternative nightclub. After several incidents, like those described in the linked article, but also of women being followed into the ladies' room, the door to a toilet being kicked in, and of people dropping a bicycle onto the bouncer from the club roof, they made an internal decision of not letting refugees in, but inviting them to an integration class about how to behave properly in a German nightclub, at the end of which they'd be given a card. Refugees with this card would be let into the club.

Now, there was nothing racist about it. The people running the "White Rabbit" didn't make the decision lightly, and they informed their employees with an internal email with the header reading "Refugees Welcome, Assholes Not".

This internal email was send by an as of yet unnamed person to the media and members of the new right-wing party AfD ("Alternative für Deutschland", Alternative for Germany). The header "Refugees Welcome, Assholes Not" was replaced with a simple "For your information".

This led to very superficial reports, knee-jerk reaction from both left ("That's racist!") and right ("See, we told you!"), the "White Rabbit" quickly became "all Freiburg nightclubs" and the integration class was dropped from most reports.

Like I said there are incorrect reports, there are conservative rightwingers who post propaganda, there are extremists on both sides
Which is why Bill Maher and others now call these extreme left people the regressive left

Prove it.

I don't know. As a rule, I don't watch videos a) recorded in profile mode and b) from inside a car that purport to be informative, unless they are actually about something to do with cars (and I'm gonna guess this one isn't).

Watch the vid, it will only take a few moments of your time
tell me is she calling out the regressive left? Is there anything she says that is 'racist'?

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As a person Loctus of Bored is not liberal, Loctus of Bored is not a moderate person who can moderate an internet forum without bias, Loctus of Bored is a regressive liberal
and I have a good mind to complain Loctus of Bored's harassment and bias to the higher administration of trekbbs

taken from the net
Liberalism and Liberal Principles
Justin Antitheist
(Written while blocked on Facebook for practicing free speech, January 7th, 2016, the one year anniversary of the Charlie Hebdo attack.)

Liberalism is founded on two major principles - liberty and equality. The former is stressed in what is known as classical liberalism and the later in what is known a social liberalism. But both are indispensable to liberalism. These two basic principles can be subdivided to include the principles of freedom of expression, civil rights, equality of the sexes and all colors and creeds, a free market, freedom of religion, democracy, secularism, international cooperation, non-violence and peace.

Obviously, freedom of expression includes freedom of speech, the press, artistic expression and, most importantly, the freedom to say that which some want to take away your right to say.

Liberty also includes a woman's right to choose, freedom from religion as well as freedom of religion, and of course liberty includes civil rights.

Civil rights ties in with the other core liberal principle - equality. This includes equality of the sexes, genders, ethnicity, sexual orientation and so on.

With the liberal principles of secularism and freedom of expression, any limits on freedom of expression by religion is in direct opposition to liberal principles. In other words, one can tell jokes about Jesus, criticize Judaism and draw Mohamed while having the right to be free from violence or legal repercussions. This also means that the hate speech in the Torah, Bible and Quran is permitted in liberalism under the principle of freedom of expression. In fact, the very idea of curbing freedom of expression by labeling some of it "hate speech" is entirely against liberal principles. Giving special treatment to one particular religion, such as shielding it from criticism more than others, is also against the liberal principles of equality and secularism.

Under the principle of equality, of course, comes an opposition to racism, sexism, ageism, and other forms of bigotry. This includes the soft bigotry of low expectations. This means that holding some groups of people to a different set of standards of ethics and acceptable behavior than others, even the intent is to defend them, is iniquity (supporting inequality) and bigotry. There is no room for this in liberalism under the core principle of equality.

The so-called "Regressive Left" is a straying away from or betrayal of one or more of these principles. Having a bias for one group over an other group is not liberal, it is against liberalism. Arguing that speech that offends some people should be banned is not liberal, it is against liberalism. Arguing that a group of people should be held to a different set of ethics is not liberal. It is against liberalism. Often people have the misconception that cultural relativism means that ethical relativism. These are two different things. Ethics such as the liberal principle of non violence dictates that violence is not accepted from or within any culture or group. Similarly, inequality is unacceptable in any culture. These ethics and principles are universal and non negotiable. Similarly, basic concepts of consensual and non-consensual sex and what constitutes sexual harassment, rape, marital rape and so on are also universal and apply to all.

If one understand basic liberal principles, one can better identify and correct "regressive left" tendencies.

Taken from the Einseberg Nog thread thanks to JWPlatt for this post

JWPlatt, posted:

Here are the main issues non-Muslims likely see with Islam:

• No central authority to agree on reformation or moderation of fundamentalism
• The death penalty for apostasy
• Jihad, the religious duty of Muslims to maintain the religion, sometimes said to be universal warfare against infidels or non-believers (non-Muslims) who will not convert
• Subjugation of women and accusations that the Quran encourages husbands to chastise, beat or whip wives
• Islam considers itself is the final and only true religion
• Violence to induce fear against free speech representations of Muhammad and other such offenses
• Shariah as a sovereign entity above the indigenous legal system (e.g., replaces United States law for Muslims)

the video

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tell me what is wrong with anything this young woman is saying? Is anything she says 'racist' for that matter?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I'm sorry, but again: I don't get my information from poorly-shot mobile phone videos taken by amateurs. I have standards.

 

[Jedi_Master]

@atlantalliance I would suggest that perhaps you take a deep breath and calm down. The Internet is full of sites, chatrooms, videos, and message boards designed to incite hatred, violence, anger, jealousy, envy, racism, and bigotry. Sadly, many of those sites, etc. purport to be something completely different - a place to hear the "truth" about a particular subject a truth that unidentified "others" wish to conceal. A healthy dose of skepticism and a willingness to accept that you can make wrong assumptions and can be misled is needed if you are to avoid being caught up in a web of hate.
Do you ever wonder why so few people agree with your assessments? Do you ever wonder why it is so hard that to get others to believe the "truth"? Could it be that what you believe is wrong... that what you are feeding on is dangerous? Sometimes being in the minority is not something to be desired.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

maybe that's a better idea
let us read out the snopes letter ---Which appears to have been Altered
and see if there is anything KKK-ish, anything white supreme about it, anything hitlerism to it, or anything 'racist'.....yes there are heated words, there are flaming, I think even the word 'animals' is used

You didn't even make it out of the same sentence before you own-goaled an example off bigotry in the alleged nurse's letter. I'm pretty sure comparing a group of people to animals is kind of the textbook definition of bigotry, or "KKK-ishness and Hitlerism," as you call it. That's pretty much their bread and butter.

Many migrants have AIDS, syphilis, open TB and many exotic diseases that we, in Europe, do not know how to treat them.

And if the veracity of the claims weren't already in question from the white supremacist language in the title, what kind of nurse in 21st century Europe would a) find AIDS, syphilis, and TB to be "exotic diseases," and b) claim that they were untreatable there? That's a pretty big red flag that this is ignorant bigoted propaganda, wouldn't you say?

Like I said I'm not a Republican voter, not white, not even American
and yet Locutus of Bored called me a racist and gave me an infraction for my post

I have a good feeling to complain this political harassment and dishonesty to higher administration of the trekbbs

I didn't call you a racist, mostly because if I did you'd come back with the tired "Muslims aren't a race" rebuttal that while technically accurate misses the point of the criticism entirely. Also, it was pretty clear from your hostile PMs that you already came here with a gigantic chip on your shoulder and preexisting grudge against me to match based on my alleged reputation, so I'm not handing you the fuel you want so easily.

Anyway, what I actually said was that the video you posted was a white supremacist video. Now, is your name video? No, then it shouldn't be confusing what I was referring to, should it? But then again, you fell for the content of that white supremacist video, so maybe independent thought is not your strong suit.

Anyway, since "Comments to PM" from your prior infraction is not ambiguous in the slightest but you continue to want to make this thread all about your grudge with Muslims and me, neither of which it was originally about, you've now earned another infraction, filed under OTHER.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Like I said there are incorrect reports, there are conservative rightwingers who post propaganda, there are extremists on both sides
Which is why Bill Maher and others now call these extreme left people the regressive left

#1: Regressive left and extreme left is not the same. Many people one would call regressive left are actually close to the middle of the political scale.

#2: As those regressive left I've mentioned in my post have the knee-jerk reaction of calling anyone even mentioning that there are downsides to refugees a racist, you obviously have the knee-jerk reaction of calling anyone who isn't on board with your "muslims are bad and refugees are dangerous" mindset a regressive left. I suspect Bill Maher wants his term back.

 

[Leviathan]

None of this makes any sense, not any sense at all! If the EU was de-canonized by Disney they can't possibly handle refugees.

...

(I'll show myself out)

 

[CommanderRaytas]

This "hitlerism" thing personally offends me (and probably everyone else on this forum and the world). Every off-handed comparison of whatever situation to the horrors of Shoah (cold and industrialised genocide) are offensive. Could you, @atlantalliance, please not do that? The content of your posts notwithstanding, of course. I'm not touching that, as much more eloquent people already have. Thank you, eloquent people. Thumbs up.

 

[Garak]

@atlantalliance , please give Loctus permission to post your angry PMs.

 

[cultcross]

And if the veracity of the claims weren't already in question from the white supremacist language in the title, what kind of nurse in 21st century Europe would a) find AIDS, syphilis, and TB to be "exotic diseases," and b) claim that they were untreatable there? That's a pretty big red flag that this is ignorant bigoted propaganda, wouldn't you say?

Not to even mention that Syria's HIV rate is less than a third of the UKs which is typical of the region (a society that is built around the sexual morality of monogamy tends to have low STD rates). So this "refugees spread AIDS" nonsense is just plain racist and has absolutely no basis in fact.

 

[MacLeod]

Remember the left-right politcal spectrum can vary from country to country. For example the US Democratic party which is generally considered to the party on the left in the USA might be considered more towards the centre or perhaps even centre-right party in parts of Europe.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Remember the left-right politcal spectrum can vary from country to country. For example the US Democratic party which is generally considered to the party on the left in the USA might be considered more towards the centre or perhaps even centre-right party in parts of Europe.

It's not so much that the left-right spectrum is different per se, but that in the US we live, in effect, in a two-party system.

The Democratic Party is to the left of the Republican Party. But the fact that only two parties function to field candidates affects what is considered mainstream, workable, and accepted. I'm supposing that that's what you were getting at, and, yes, it is indeed so that the left end of the political mainstream in the US is to the right of what it is in, say, Western Europe.

We also don't have a parliamentary system of government, and the idea of minority government is completely non-existent here. Anyone here who is further to the left than the mainstream has to either work within the confines of a party that is to their right, or within the confines of a third party who basically can't get anybody elected at all.

 

[MacLeod]

Whilst the UK does have multiple parties as it stands only two parties Conservative and Labour have any real chance of forming a majority government. A coalitian government is rare in the UK.

No system of Government is perfect, no party is perfect is just which is the least worse option. But I suppose another key difference between many Western European Governmental systems and the US is that the Executive and Ledgislative are the same party but should be the subect another thread and not this thread.

Unfortunatly the refugee crisis has shown the best and worst aspects of the EU and that there is still a long way to go.