Modelling n00b questions

[ItIsGreen]

I live alone, so have indulged my nerdy side by having a few shelves in my living room dedicated to little trinkets and things I find interesting - among other things there are Transformers, comic book characters, Dr Who nicknacks, that kind of stuff. Recently I noticed a glaring omission, there's no Star Trek stuff. Now with the Star Trek Micro Machines of my youth long gone, I decided to pick up a small model kit to make a couple of ships to put on display.

I decided to go for the AMT 1:2500 Enterprise set, containing the TOS Enterprise, the Refit/A, and Ent-B. I've built a total of 2 model kits in my life (neither of which were Trek or even sci-fi related) and they came out okay, but not great. I know I'm not going to get a totally professional looking finish but I want to do the models justice to the best of my ability. To that end, I'd like to ask some of you more experienced modellers, especially those familiar with this particular kit, for a few pointers.

The specific questions I have are:

• Should I paint the hulls? The TOS Enterprise is moulded in a mid-grey plastic and the Refit and Ent-B are in white. There are extensive decals which cover nearly every surface, should I just rely on those to give the proper look or should I give them all a base coat first? If so, what colours should I use - and is it worth buying an airbrush and paints for this small set, or should I just use spray cans (or hand-paint)?
• I know I am going to need to hand-paint some details, such as the deflector and Bussard collectors on the TOS-Ent, should I give the surface any preparation first? Light sanding, primer coat etc? I tried hand-painting a model directly onto the plastic once and the paint wouldn't stick, it kept pooling up.
• With models this small, are decal setting solutions necessary? Or will the small size of the models in fact make any imperfections more noticeable?
• Should I give them some kind of top coat? I've never done this with the previous models I've made and they do kind of look a bit unfinished. But they're also larger models by quite a way, again being of a smaller size would you say a top coat/varnish is necessary? If so what should I use?

And any other advice you'd have would be great.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Forbin]

It's generally accepted that you should paint every model - bare plastic only ever looks like bare plastic. And especially if you're going to apply those wallpaper decals. Decals stick better to glossy paint than to bare plastic. They'll likely start to flake off of bare plastic after a few years.

What kind of paint were you using that beaded up? On plastic, you should be using plastic enamel or lacquer. acrylics made for plastic models are good too (more people are using them now, but I'm old and clinging to my enamels ). Sometimes you may need to wash the plastic parts in dish detergent to get rid of mold release lube, but I've never had to do that with Polar Lights kits. Craft paints or watercolors won't stick.

If your paint is matt, you should clear-coat it with gloss before decalling. Decals stick to gloss best, and usually show silvering on matt paint because of its roughness. A setting solutin always helps, especially if the decals are on curves. Then after decaling. give the models a coat of clear matt to kill the shine.

 

[ItIsGreen]

It's generally accepted that you should paint every model - bare plastic only ever looks like bare plastic. And especially if you're going to apply those wallpaper decals. Decals stick better to glossy paint than to bare plastic. They'll likely start to flake off of bare plastic after a few years.

OK, so any pointers on what colours to use, and what the best (and most cost effective) way of painting them would be? I actually have a can of grey car primer which I'm considering using for the TOS-Ent, a friend who paints Warhammer models says it should be alright, I just need to do a test spray to make sure the grey's not too dark. What about for the other two? Would a plain white look okay, or should I go for an off-white/grey, or a pearlescent paint?

What kind of paint were you using that beaded up? On plastic, you should be using plastic enamel or lacquer. acrylics made for plastic models are good too (more people are using them now, but I'm old and clinging to my enamels ). Sometimes you may need to wash the plastic parts in dish detergent to get rid of mold release lube, but I've never had to do that with Polar Lights kits. Craft paints or watercolors won't stick.

They were actually paints that came with the model, I believe they were acrylics. It was an Airfix 'starter set' that came with paints, poly cement etc. I don't recall washing the parts prior to painting so maybe that's why.

If your paint is matt, you should clear-coat it with gloss before decalling. Decals stick to gloss best, and usually show silvering on matt paint because of its roughness. A setting solutin always helps, especially if the decals are on curves. Then after decaling. give the models a coat of clear matt to kill the shine.

Right, setting solution is going on the shopping list then. So is gloss/clear matt something that I can just pick up at my local hobby shop? Can they be painted on by hand or should they be sprayed?

Like I said, I really am a total noob. Thanks for the pointers

 

[Albertese]

Okay, I'll throw out some advice too. For the TOS ship, I would recommend Tamiya's spray paint #TS-5 "Luftwaffe Light Blue." The actual hull color used on the original model is a tough nut to crack with off the shelf colors, but the TS-5 looks great. I've used it on numerous TOS theme projects and swear by it. It's a lacquer based paint and will stick nicely to the model. For the other two ships, I would recommend just a gloss white spray, though be careful not to spray it on too heavily and obscure the details. You'll find (especially with gloss paints) that they tend to go on thick and pool in areas. I will usually always use flat paints and then apply a clear gloss lacquer before applying the decals. I wouldn't bother with a perlescent paint as you are going to cover everything with decals anyway and the pearl effect will be obscured. Most companies which make model paints will also make clear coats so you should be able to find them handily. You can also get equivalent stuff at hardware stores and art supply places.

I wouldn't bother with an airbrush unless you find you really love modeling and want to get into it in a more advanced way. I've been modeling since the mid-90s and only got an airbrush last year. It's great if you want to make custom colors or do airbrush effects like weathering and such, but it's a big investment for three little models if that's all it'll be used for.

For other details besides the base colors, I just use cheap craft arylics sutibly thinned. Thinning them with just clean water is fine, but if you need to thin more than, say, 20% water to 80% paoint, I would then switch to thinning with acrylic airbrush medium. The problem with water is that it thins out the binders in the paint and can cause the paint to break down and look weirdly gritty, while the airbrush medium is basically a thin binder by itself so you can avoid weird pigment effects. But again, experiment with just the water before going out to get fancy additives. You may find the simpler course works fine for you.

I would second the idea of decal setting solutions, especially on kits involving so much decaled area. If you follow the directions you can get them to really look painted on.

If you are curious about what I did with this particular kit, check out this thread:
http://www.trekbbs.com/threads/star-trek-in-1-2400-scale.267568/

But don't be intimidated. I put a lot more work into mine because I'm an obsessive weirdo. And, honestly, most people who look at the finished model don't recognize all the little mods I made. Even I can't see them from across the room. These are fun little kits right out of the box.

Good luck with it! And please post your progress!

--Alex

 

[ItIsGreen]

Thanks very much for the advice Alex. Your build of the Enterprise looks great, if I can get mine to look half as good I'll be very pleased indeed. I don't think I'm advanced enough to be making modifications to the kit so I'll be building it as-is, for better or worse. May I ask how you painted the nacelle domes? I was just going to play it safe and go with a plain red (not after screen/model accuracy, especially on my first go and with something so small, just something that looks pleasing to the eye), but I think the effect on yours really brings it to life.

With the other two ships, should I use a gloss white and decal straight on then, or use a flat white with a gloss coat? Or does it really not make a difference?

I'd thought about maybe posting pictures of the finished models, but not about an 'in-progress' type thread as there are so many great modellers on here I didn't think anyone would be interested in watching a newbie like me possibly ruin his first attempt on his tiny ships. I might start a thread when I actually begin the build then, and see how it goes. Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[Albertese]

Thanks very much for the advice Alex. Your build of the Enterprise looks great, if I can get mine to look half as good I'll be very pleased indeed. I don't think I'm advanced enough to be making modifications to the kit so I'll be building it as-is, for better or worse. May I ask how you painted the nacelle domes? I was just going to play it safe and go with a plain red (not after screen/model accuracy, especially on my first go and with something so small, just something that looks pleasing to the eye), but I think the effect on yours really brings it to life.

Thanks! To paint the domes, I started with white, then lightly sketched the radial vanes in pencil. Then I painted a mix of yellow-orange over the white, taking care to preserve a five-lobed pattern of white. Over this I painted thin radial streaks of yellow. Finally, I layered some Tamiya clear orange over all this, starting at the outer edge and fading to clear in the middle.

It's really just a lot of experience with tiny brush work gained from decades spent painting gaming minis.

With the other two ships, should I use a gloss white and decal straight on then, or use a flat white with a gloss coat? Or does it really not make a difference?

Probably doesn't matter really. Just make sure you spray thin coats. Remember that a heavy coat will obscure details.

I'd thought about maybe posting pictures of the finished models, but not about an 'in-progress' type thread as there are so many great modellers on here I didn't think anyone would be interested in watching a newbie like me possibly ruin his first attempt on his tiny ships. I might start a thread when I actually begin the build then, and see how it goes. Thanks for the encouragement!

Well, I hope we at least see the finished models. Again, good luck!

--Alex

 

[Forbin]

I know the color of the original e has been an ongoing argument for decades, but it's been pretty much settles recently as a "concrete gray", which was gray with a greenish tinge. I know she looked blue onscreen (and I painted my models blue for years!) but that's because she was filmed in front of a blue screen. Polar Lights' recommended colors on the 1/350 kit are supposed to be spot-on. They recommend Tamiya XF-12 IJN Gray (a Japanese WWII airplane belly color). I think that's only available on their bottled acrylic line, so you'd have to hand brush it or airbrush it. Personally, I chose the nearest thing to it in their spray lacquer line (and I can't remember now what that was!!) for my 350 pilot E model:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/trek/350e2p1.html

BUT, for my personal "as it looks on screen" color, I like Light Ghost Gray, because it does have that minor blue tinge to it. Here's my 350 series version using Tamiya Light Ghost Gray spray lacquer:
http://www.inpayne.com/models/trek/pltoselit1.html

 

[ItIsGreen]

Gorgeous models! I'm thinking if these go well I might tackle a larger model, like a 1:1000/1:600 size, and if I go down that route I may invest in an airbrush etc and go for more accuracy, but for these small models I'm more interested in getting something that approximates the look of the ships and more importantly is pleasing to the eye. I think something that comes in a can that I can just spray on is the way to go, and I'll compare the Light Ghost Grey vs the one Albertese recommended to see which one I think fits the bill. Thank you both again very much for your advice and encouragement!

I've been thinking about what Albertese said about posting my progress and I thought I'd maybe start a 'Let's Ruin: (Mis)adventures of an unskilled modeller' thread, where I post my progress from the point of view of a noob modeller, hopefully with a slightly humourous bent, with a focus more on what I've cocked up (as I'm sure to make a few mistakes) and what I've learned along the way. Hopefully should be more interesting to read than a straight progress thread and would allow you more experienced guys to have a laugh at my expense as well as chip in with advice and tips. What do you think?

 

[Albertese]

I used Light Ghost Grey on my first go at the Polar Lights 1:1000 Enterprise. I do think it looks good (and Forbin's 1:350 with the Light Ghost Gray looks awesome) but for my money it has too much of a warm cast to it, while the Luftwaffe Blue has the green/blue cast to it. But, really, it all boils down to personal taste. Either paint looks good.

And the "misadventures" thread sounds awesome. Let's see that.

--Alex

 

[lomitus]

Ok...it's been MANY years since I've built a physical model and I honestly can't speak to colors or anything for the two newer ships, however for good references on the original Enterprise, ya might wanna take a look-see at Trekcore...

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=130

Wish I had of found that when I started my latest 3D project....some really great reference shots there.

Anyways, just my own little contribution, but hope it helps!

 

[CDR6]

I live alone, so have indulged my nerdy side by having a few shelves in my living room dedicated to little trinkets and things I find interesting - among other things there are Transformers, comic book characters, Dr Who nicknacks, that kind of stuff. Recently I noticed a glaring omission, there's no Star Trek stuff. Now with the Star Trek Micro Machines of my youth long gone, I decided to pick up a small model kit to make a couple of ships to put on display.

I decided to go for the AMT 1:2500 Enterprise set, containing the TOS Enterprise, the Refit/A, and Ent-B. I've built a total of 2 model kits in my life (neither of which were Trek or even sci-fi related) and they came out okay, but not great. I know I'm not going to get a totally professional looking finish but I want to do the models justice to the best of my ability. To that end, I'd like to ask some of you more experienced modellers, especially those familiar with this particular kit, for a few pointers.

The specific questions I have are:

• Should I paint the hulls? The TOS Enterprise is moulded in a mid-grey plastic and the Refit and Ent-B are in white. There are extensive decals which cover nearly every surface, should I just rely on those to give the proper look or should I give them all a base coat first? If so, what colours should I use - and is it worth buying an airbrush and paints for this small set, or should I just use spray cans (or hand-paint)?
• I know I am going to need to hand-paint some details, such as the deflector and Bussard collectors on the TOS-Ent, should I give the surface any preparation first? Light sanding, primer coat etc? I tried hand-painting a model directly onto the plastic once and the paint wouldn't stick, it kept pooling up.
• With models this small, are decal setting solutions necessary? Or will the small size of the models in fact make any imperfections more noticeable?
• Should I give them some kind of top coat? I've never done this with the previous models I've made and they do kind of look a bit unfinished. But they're also larger models by quite a way, again being of a smaller size would you say a top coat/varnish is necessary? If so what should I use?

And any other advice you'd have would be great.

Thanks a lot.

Green,
Lots of good info here on these pages. I tend to lurk here with great regularity and my own Star Trek collection is, well...shall we say humble. Anyway, I do hope you post your progress us to see, as it sounds like a fun build. I get lots of ideas and inspiration from fellow modelers. If you want there are a couple of web sites you can visit to get ideas from, The RPF.com and Starship Modeler.com. Both have some neat stuff...
Regards,
Chuck

 

[daedalus5]

I'm still learning to model. I use Tamiya Matt spray paints to cover the hull. I build the model up first and mask over small painted areas, like clear warp grilles etc. I then use ypthe Tamiya paints to finish it off. I often mix colours to save on costs. When I've got stuck, the guys in this forum have been very helpful.

I find it quite a rewarding experience and a good hobby for winter nights or summer says sat outside. I love building the big ships that you can't buy in the shops like the Ent C in my avatar, Reliant and Galor (a nightmare to get a decent yellow mustard colour!!!!)

I've now made my first acrylic model, and once I make the display stand, I plan to photograph and share how I did it.