The prequel trilogy constructive criticism thread

[Kor]

The prequel trilogy seems to get reamed quite a bit in various circles. This isn't necessarily universal, though. Roger Ebert gave both TPM and ROTS 3.5 out of 4 stars.

Anyway, I propose that we constructively brainstorm ways in which these movies could have been improved. What would you have changed, adjusted, removed, or added, in terms of plot, pacing, visuals, dialog, or whatnot?

A few ideas:

Overall: Improve the acting. Perhaps have someone different play Anakin. Use more practical setpieces instead of a bunch of green screen action. Don't have so much fast-paced CGI stuff happening all at once like a video game.

TPM: Start with Anakin a few years older, and already with a dark aspect to his personality. Also, have a plot that more directly ties into the rest of the trilogy. Remove the comic relief aspects of Jar Jar Binks' character. Make the Gungans more noble and serious.

AOTC: Anakin's fall to the Dark Side really begins here, so that everything doesn't happen so ridiculously suddenly in ROTS. Cut the "I don't like sand" stuff.

ROTS: Anakin's final turn to the Dark Side is more of a deliberate choice instead of something that he just kind of allows to happen. Maybe have a bigger ideological rift, with Anakin believing that the Jedi are corrupt and that the Sith path is actually morally superior. Somehow leave Anakin's fate a mystery by having "Darth Vader" be an ominous presence in the shadows, in a similar way to Darth Sidious in TPM.

Thoughts?

Kor

 

[MacLeod]

Isn't part of the role of a Director to get the best out of an Actor by giving them clear directions of what they want from theri perfrmance?

 

[fireproof78]

Isn't part of the role of a Director to get the best out of an Actor by giving them clear directions of what they want from theri perfrmance?

To be fair, some of the lines were not as easy to say as GL thought they would be when he wrote them. Which, even in the OT, Harrison Ford made a similar comment, and was known for making small adjustments to his dialog for ease of speech.

As much as I like Ewan McGregor and Natalie Portman and the like, I just don't think they were able to really do much with the dialog, and I don't think GL really directed them in a way that was communicated in the performance.

Personally, I think that if George had someone else directing, there could have been a different performance garnered from the actors, who are all decent actors. I think it would have freed GL to also go more through the story, different drafts and concepts and explore them.

 

[Makarov]

Probably tweak AOTC a lot, maybe start TPM with an adult Anakin so that it's the same actor in all three movies, more interaction with him and Obi wan. Redo some awkward scenes and get more chemistry between Padme and Anakin. Leave Jar Jar and his people in there but make them puppets. Not much more than that honestly because I like them enough on their own. I'm not in love with the originals enough to want all 6 movies to feel the same. Although if by better we mean how to avoid the internet rage over them, then it's a whole different set of changes.

 

[Kor]

I'm all for the concept of the prequel trilogy feeling different from the original trilogy. After all, it's set decades in the past.

The problem is in the appallingly horrible execution.

Kor

 

[2takesfrakes]

Just get rid of the slavery bullshit, the midi-chlorians and riding that "you're too old" chestnut from Yoda's one throw-away line in ESB. When Anakin, a young adult, hits it off with young adult Padme, why have these bullshit dreams about dying as a motivation? Just have him want his itinerary to match hers, because they're Secret Lovers. And Palpatine's appealing to this desire of Anakins, because he sees this and he ain't stupid.

Anakin's appreciative of Palpatine's supporting their relationship, even though they're of differing social stations. And Anakin begins listening to more of what Palpatine has to say on politics and the Jedi and how it might even become possible for Anakin and Padme to be open about their love affair, if he were permitted to become politically active, instead of just enforcing policy, all of the time. So Anakin begins to sour on the Jedi Order and thus begins his turn to the Dark Side. It wouldn't have to be a radically different trilogy, after all ...

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Years ago, a friend and I made a write up of how we would have done the prequels were we in charge. These ideas are from that. Keep in mind we weren't professional screen writers (like Jorge).

Well, for starters begin TMP in the middle of some sort of action - like a battle in progress, like the Alliance being attacked by another galactic power, or separatists. Don't start the movie with trade negotiations (this is Star Wars, after all).
- Introduce Anakin as a brash, 20-something pilot who shows off his amazing skillz during combat (After all, this should be Anakin's story).
- Have the enemy fleet be in control of a Sith Lord (could be Maul, but flesh him out more) taking orders from the Palpatine hologram.
- Show Anakin be introduced to Obi Wan and the Jedi during his adventures as a group that keeps galactic peace working behind the scenes, in secret. Show how the Jedi use their powers to influence and maintain the powers in the galaxy to keep the peace. The Jedi shouldn't be operating out in the open, and it certainly shouldn't be easy for the Emperor to locate and exterminate all of them.
- Show Anakin and Obi Wan develop a friendship and bond through their adventures together.
- Reveal in the first film that the enemy is using clone in some manner, but have some sort of explanation for why using clones is an advantage, like perhaps the Jedi can't influence them due to them being a duplicated mind.
- Have a final battle that has some sort of actual tension - like at a facility where clones are being created and spread throughout the galaxy.

Of course, that is only ideas for the first film. I don't think there was anything wrong with how the prequels were structured into three acts, with an introduction to the characters, rising action, and resolution. They could have worked very well as is if they were well paced, with great dialogue and characters.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

The acting was only wooden because the direction of the movie is so static. More movement, more actual sets, less shot-reverse-shot and walking slowly and talking whilst sitting on couches. Also, actual sets would improve the actors' performance, since it's damn near impossible to act off of nothing. The world-building in the prequels is nice, so more shooting on location plus practical effects would solve a great many problems. The actors would have actual things to look at and room to move.

 

[Richard Baker]

GL was using a weird technique in filming the prequels- he would take a scene through several takes, digitally remove the best performance (in his opinion) from each actor, then combine those performances back together in a single 'perfect' scene. This gave everything a very controlled feel IMO- when you compare it to the OT there seems to be no personal connections.

My biggest gripe is that Anakin turned to the Dark Side so quickly. There should have been a much bigger arc for that pivotal event.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

To me, Anakin was with one foot in the Dark Side ever since AotC. He was never really a good guy, so his transformation isn't that quick. The whole "must save Padmé" thing was a rationalisation. He didn't give a hoot about her. When she told him to get lost, he went from doing it all for her to Force-choking her in a heartbeat.

 

[fireproof78]

GL was using a weird technique in filming the prequels- he would take a scene through several takes, digitally remove the best performance (in his opinion) from each actor, then combine those performances back together in a single 'perfect' scene. This gave everything a very controlled feel IMO- when you compare it to the OT there seems to be no personal connections.

My biggest gripe is that Anakin turned to the Dark Side so quickly. There should have been a much bigger arc for that pivotal event.

To me, Anakin was with one foot in the Dark Side ever since AotC. He was never really a good guy, so his transformation isn't that quick. The whole "must save Padmé" thing was a rationalisation. He didn't give a hoot about her. When she told him to get lost, he went from doing it all for her to Force-choking her in a heartbeat.

This is a point that I agree with as well. There was never, for me anyway, a point where I was like "Anakin, don't joint the Dark Side!" Why? Because, the Jedi were not presented in the best of lights. The Light Side was just good-the end.
So, yeah, I never felt that Anakin was a good guy wrestling between good and evil-he just felt like a bad guy waiting for permission to be bad. The choice really should have felt more like a wrestling match rather than a (shrug) and "Ok."

 

[Ithekro]

More Jekyll than Hyde?

 

[David.Blue]

Hmmm...interesting challenge. Kinda tricky because so much of what is now canon first appeared on the screen in the prequels.

Start with background. We know there were something called the Clone Wars, in which General Obi wan Kenobi fought, as did Anakin Skywalker. We also know the Galactic Republic gave way to the Empire, which was an ourtright fascist regime that lasted approximately a generation. And the new Emperor was a Master of the Dark Side of the Force, who evidently corrupted pilot Anakin Skywalker, who was married (and his wife would seem to have born twins after "Anakin" was presumed dead).

Here then are the characters to begin--Obi wan, Anakin, Anakin's wife (what the hell lets call her Padme), Palpatine, and resumably Prince Organa of Alderaan. They are somehow involved in the Clone Wars, whatever they are, and since Leia is raised as a Princess methinks there might be something of a love triangle here. Let us go with that. More, let us note we have the Clone Wars--no war, but wars, plural. So let us go with a series of conflicts, rather than one big one. Why should such conflicts be called clone wars? I would assume some faction in a civil war used Clones in some way, perhaps as a way of creating vast armies.

Movie One therefore introduces our characters during a simmering truce with the Clone Lords, who are seen as monsters since they grow clones for purposes of organ replacement. In fact they Clone Lords these days rarely grow entire bodies but body parts, but they are openly condemned by the Republic overall. More, there is a huge amount of resentment right now aimed a Jedi since many fought on the other side--but while there are several Jedi Schools, all are independent with no central authority. The story focuses on pals Skywalker & Organa having to adjust to their new commanding officer, a Jedi named Obi wan Kenobi. Eventually they learn of a plot to start the war all over again, as a group seeks to stage an attack but blame the Clone Lords. The audience realizes a Republica official named Palpatine was behind it all. At the end of the film, Anakin agrees to accept training as a Jedi.

Movie Two has us see Anakin grown into his powers and skills, but emotional conflicts within him are spelling trouble. At the same time, Prince Organa has fallen in love with Padme, although she sees him only a good friend. Obi wan tries and fails to help his friend deal with issues of anger, pride and jealousy--in part because he is a born warrior and Jedi are supposed to be knights of Peace. At the same time Palpatine, now a quite prominent figure, is warning of another Clone War. Sure enough, an attack happens, spearheaded by a huge superdreadnought whose weapons overpower conventional defense systems. Armed with WMDs, it renders a series of planets uninhabitable. Next in its path is Anakin's homeworld. Fighters in their thousands rise, but Anakin gives in to the Dark Side, eventually crippling the superdreadnought sufficiently for the Republic Fleet to finish it off. But not before the planet is attacked. Refugees include Owen, Padme's brother. Obi wan is horrified by what Anakin is done, and a rift between the two now looms.

Movie Three opens well into the last Clone War. Palpatine has been elected President of the Republic, which is suffering from years of privation. He subtly fans blame against the Jedi, while preparing a secret mission--fighters armed with a new WMD to be unleashed against the Clone Lord homeworld. Even the pilots aren't told what it is they are wielding, so Anakin and Obi wan wipe out an entire world--the former with glee, the latter in horror. More, this was one of several simulateous missions wrecking havoc, slaughtering billions. The Republic cheers! And when the Jedi object, Anakin Skywalker calls for them to prove their loyalty. The Great Purge begins, starting with an epic duel between Kenobi and Anakin which leaves the latter almost dead. In fact, the galaxy is told he is dead--but the Purge of Jedi continues, soon led by a dreadful figure known as Darth Vader. Prince Organa returns to Alderaan, with the widow Padme as his wife, although the Jedi Master Yoda tells them the twins she carries must be raised separately...

Something like that anyway...

 

[CommanderRaytas]

This is a point that I agree with as well. There was never, for me anyway, a point where I was like "Anakin, don't joint the Dark Side!" Why? Because, the Jedi were not presented in the best of lights. The Light Side was just good-the end.
So, yeah, I never felt that Anakin was a good guy wrestling between good and evil-he just felt like a bad guy waiting for permission to be bad. The choice really should have felt more like a wrestling match rather than a (shrug) and "Ok."

I actually put a lot of blame on the Jedi council. They knew from the start that there was "grave danger in the boy's training" (Yoda). They knew he was conflicted and emotional and scared. No-one cared enough to actually do something about it except for Obi-Wan and fucking Palpatine. When Anakin sought out Yoda in RotS, all Yoda did was go all "meh, people die, no biggie" on him, even though it was obvious that Anakin was distraught and hiding something big. It was also their decision to send him and Padmé on a romantic holiday to Naboo, when literally anyone else could have gone. How about Obi-Wan? Send him. He wouldn't creep on her. Problem solved.

 

[Makarov]

The dreams of Padme's death are essential to Anakins fall to the dark side... culminating in him ultimately deciding against to Windu and save Palpatine as attempt to actually do something to save her. Which was set up in the first two movies with his mom's death, it's all about trying to keep the next woman in his life alive. This connects all three movies nicely and is a really strong reason for him to turn imo. To say he didn't care about her is like we watched two different trilogies.

 

[fireproof78]

The problem is that I don't ever feel like his fall is in question. I don't feel any tension, or that he is a good guy forced to do bad things until he eventually falls. His fall happens with little in the way of drama, save for his brief moment of "What have I done?" I felt more agonizing over his slaughter of Tuskens then his murder of Mace Windu.

Does mom's death and fear of Padme's death provide a through line? Sure, but in the most surface way possible, when there is the potential for so much more drama. Anakin's fall could be quite epic, and very emotional but I don't ever feel any tension from him or his choices.

That's my biggest frustration with the PT is missed opportunities. I think a different director would have gotten different performances and provide much more of the dramatic tension that such a decision should culminate in. Again, Anakin doesn't feel like a good guy. He feels like someone who wants an excuse for his bad behavior, be it arguing with Obi-Wan, rejecting the Council or killing people.

I want to feel sympathy for him, but I don't, save for very few, select moments.

 

[Makarov]

Have to agree to disagree there, just a different perspective but everything in the story makes the circumstances of his fall sympathetic to me. Overkill revenge on those that kill his mom, followed by a guilty confession? Easy to feel for that. He even tells Mace Windu that Palpatine has to stand trial instead of being killed. He waits until he is forced at the last moment to defend Palpatine. Then the acting in that scene after Windu dies is pretty expressive of his guilt. Obi-wan and the council consistently sidelined him and he had reason to be annoyed by it, especially Yoda's useless help after Padme's death premonition which amounted to "let her die."

If he was just politically opposed to the jedi and they cut out the padme death premonition, then he wouldn't be very sympathetic to me.

Maybe the story would be even more dramatic if the Jedi and the light side seemed more good though, they don't come off too well in the prequels.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

But that doesn't contradict the theory that he was pretty much on the path to the Dark Side all on his own, and that while he was possessive about Padmé, he cared much more about himself than her. Love is often selfish, and this kind of mindset is part of his character. Think about it: as a small kid, he lost his mum. He is deadly afraid (as stated by the Jedi) and misses his only female attachment figure. That automatically makes any love he can feel for a woman possessive in nature.

This is sympathetic and doesn't contradict his ongoing sociopathic and selfish descent into the Dark Side. Problem solved.

 

[F. King Daniel]

So very much I'd have done differently, but two things that stand out are the CG flips and impossible jumps, which I hated. Also, the aliens being cartoon caricatures rather than characters.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I would have rearranged the final battle between Sidious and Yoda to include the other Jedi Masters that Sidious turned into Light Side kebabs. So on one side you could have had the Sweet Sixteen dance (I mean final battle) between Anakin and Obi-Wan and on the other the fight between Sidious and the Masters.