CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[SeerSGB]

I do think a big reason for CBS going forward with a lawsuit now after years of seemingly not caring about "fan films" is a combination of "fan films" like Axanar getting too big and CBS launching their own TV series soon. Put simply, they don't want the competition, especially from groups that don't have the right to use their IP. If they let big productions like Axanar go forward, it will cut into their profit when they launch the new TV series since some fans may stick with the "fan films" and not watch the new CBS show.

Paramount did the same thing back in the 90s when they launched startrek.com. A lot of fansites and communities (remember this was just at the beginning of the 'net being a thing) found themselves no the wrong side of a take down notice. Don't recall anyone getting sued over it. Lucasarts did sue some people when they launched starwars.com--mainly to recover Star Wars related domain names.

So yeah, this could be totally about CBS seeing their market fora web-based Star Trek series being fucked over by fan productions poaching CBS's turf.

Think about this one: had CBS/Viacom moved Enterprise to the web like some of the Save Enterprise people wanted, this chain of events would have come about a lot sooner and most--if not all--of the current crop of fan productions wouldn't exist.

 

[Squiggy]

I would be very surprised if CBS were willing to negotiate; it's doubtful that Axanar has anything they want.

They want Axanar to stop. No doubt they'd prefer a quick negotiated settlement to a drawn jury trial, and no doubt they'd be willing to make some compromise to get that, and certainly there's no doubt they can and will go all the way if that's necessary - they hold the upper hand and it seems that everyone but AP knows that.

CBS is the one who asked for the jury. They want this.

 

[SeerSGB]

I would be very surprised if CBS were willing to negotiate; it's doubtful that Axanar has anything they want.

They want Axanar to stop. No doubt they'd prefer a quick negotiated settlement to a drawn jury trial, and no doubt they'd be willing to make some compromise to get that, and certainly there's no doubt they can and will go all the way if that's necessary - they hold the upper hand and it seems that everyone but AP knows that.

CBS is the one who asked for the jury. They want this.

Yeup. And they've brought in the best of the best to handle the fight. Either theres more than what's in the complaint or they want to send a clear message to the rest of the fanfilm community...or both

 

[feek61]

So this caught my eye in the Axanar annual report:

Government Red Tape - As of the writing of this document in September 2015, we have been working for six months trying to get the city and county to approve our plans for building out our offices and wardrobe/makeup rooms. Tenant improvements should have been easy, but the city and county want you to jump through innumerable hoops, and this meant hiring an architect, which ran $11,000 (and even that was a third of our first quote!). Government fees have been over $3,000 so far.

Any thoughts?

Well, as a building contractor these cost seem reasonable. I guess "Government Red Tape" refers to the building and zoning department which everyone who builds anything must deal with. Even though I am not in California I suspect that the architect was needed due to state statutes. You don't want some "Joe" building something and then have an earthquake happen and the entire wall fall and kill people. Similar to Florida which requires most building projects to be designed by either an engineer or architect (to withstand hurricanes, etc) to ensure public safety. I can only assume in the land of earthquakes there are similar requirements hence the "Government Red Tape" that Peters refers to. I personally I find the "Government Red Tape" comment quite humorous because it's something that every single building contractor deals with everyday.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I would be very surprised if CBS were willing to negotiate; it's doubtful that Axanar has anything they want.

They want Axanar to stop. No doubt they'd prefer a quick negotiated settlement to a drawn jury trial, and no doubt they'd be willing to make some compromise to get that, and certainly there's no doubt they can and will go all the way if that's necessary - they hold the upper hand and it seems that everyone but AP knows that.

CBS is the one who asked for the jury. They want this.

A jury trial would be much more effective than a discrete settlement if the goal is to scare the crap out of fan film productions to force them to shut down. It basically sends a strong message to the other fan films productions, "shut down or you're next!"

 

[ozzfloyd]

 

[oswriter]

They want Axanar to stop. No doubt they'd prefer a quick negotiated settlement to a drawn jury trial, and no doubt they'd be willing to make some compromise to get that, and certainly there's no doubt they can and will go all the way if that's necessary - they hold the upper hand and it seems that everyone but AP knows that.

CBS is the one who asked for the jury. They want this.

Yeup. And they've brought in the best of the best to handle the fight. Either theres more than what's in the complaint or they want to send a clear message to the rest of the fanfilm community...or both

There's definitely more than what is in the complaint. Obviously there's the matter of the John & Jane Does. And keep in mind, the studios can amend their complaint to allege additional facts and causes of action. That is not atypical once discovery begins.

And discovery, assuming we get that far, is where things will really get interesting. Because then people will be under oath.

 

[Harcourt F. Mudd]

Well yes, professionals are paid for their work. So that's sort of the problem.

 

[The Transformed Man]

Axanar could not possibly cut into CBS's profits on the new series.

I think that CBS may have moved here for two reasons:

• The way the project was being portrayed in the press, including misrepresentations by the producers concerning the nature of the project and their interactions with CBS, and
• The amount of money being taken in by crowdfunding.

It's true that the complaint doesn't address the question of profit, but it does reference the million dollar-plus fundraising of the film.

Perhaps CBS simply decided that if they were not going to draw the line at violations on this scale it would be harder later to put a lid on anything at all.

Now, I wouldn't suggest that Star Trek Continues would do this, but, hypothetically - what if Axanar succeeded and STC announced next year ala Joel Hodgson that they were going to raise six million dollars via crowdfunding to shoot an entire network-standard season or two of their show? All strictly non-profit mind you.

Heck given how STC operates, and the fact they churn out an episode for around $50k per, just Axanar's money alone would assure almost an entire 24 episode season run. LOL!

So again, what exactly do we have to show for the 1 million plus raised by Axanar... a 20 minute effects sizzle reel interspersed with talking head actor cameos???

 

[Ion]

Either he doesn't use the internet, or he's using a different dictionary than the one I have...

 

[Franklin]

CBS is the one who asked for the jury. They want this.

Yeup. And they've brought in the best of the best to handle the fight. Either theres more than what's in the complaint or they want to send a clear message to the rest of the fanfilm community...or both

There's definitely more than what is in the complaint. Obviously there's the matter of the John & Jane Does. And keep in mind, the studios can amend their complaint to allege additional facts and causes of action. That is not atypical once discovery begins.

And discovery, assuming we get that far, is where things will really get interesting. Because then people will be under oath.

I would think asking for the jury trial is maybe perfunctory and certainly would be there to scare Peters and the others mentioned in the suit.

The fact that CBS says (on paper, at least) that it would take this case to a jury would also be a message that they think they have a very strong case.

It's also likely the jury would be harder on Peters than CBS would be. Peters DOES NOT want this to go before a jury. So this creates incentive for a settlement and leverages CBS's bargaining power in the process.

Whoops! Sorry. That last bit is based on the faulty assumption that Peters is acting rationally in all this and understands that all is basically lost and it only gets worse from here. In his mind, he may relish the idea of pontificating in front of a jury.

Edited to add: If Peters has good lawyers (big IF), they would never want it to go to a jury, either. For a lot of reasons. Not the least being they probably believe they couldn't control him.

 

[jespah]

Shrug.

I wish I knew how questions and a pretty respectful (this is the Internet after all, folks; there's bound to be at least some snark) disagreement and insistence on following copyright law turned into hate.

I don't hate these folks. I don't know 'em.

They don't take up anywhere near enough space in my noggin for me to go so far as to hate them, and I doubt they ever will.

 

[oswriter]

Yeup. And they've brought in the best of the best to handle the fight. Either theres more than what's in the complaint or they want to send a clear message to the rest of the fanfilm community...or both

There's definitely more than what is in the complaint. Obviously there's the matter of the John & Jane Does. And keep in mind, the studios can amend their complaint to allege additional facts and causes of action. That is not atypical once discovery begins.

And discovery, assuming we get that far, is where things will really get interesting. Because then people will be under oath.

I would think asking for the jury trial is maybe perfunctory and certainly would be there to scare Peters and the others mentioned in the suit.

The fact that CBS says (on paper, at least) that would take this case to a jury would also be a message that they think they have a very strong case.

It's also likely the jury would be harder on Peters than CBS would be. Peters DOES NOT want this to go before a jury. So this creates incentive for a settlement and leverages CBS's bargaining power in the process.

Whoops! Sorry. That last bit is based on the faulty assumption that Peters is acting rationally in all this and understands that all is basically lost and it only gets worse from here. In his mind, he may relish the idea of pontificating in front of a jury.

The jury request is pretty standard in this sort of case. The one reason you do want a jury is that they are essentially laypersons who know how to exercise common sense. Peters may be able to sell his donors on the finer distinctions between what he's producing and CBS IP, but no "person off the street" will be able to distinguish Axanar from licensed Star Trek.

 

[SeerSGB]

There's definitely more than what is in the complaint. Obviously there's the matter of the John & Jane Does. And keep in mind, the studios can amend their complaint to allege additional facts and causes of action. That is not atypical once discovery begins.

And discovery, assuming we get that far, is where things will really get interesting. Because then people will be under oath.

I would think asking for the jury trial is maybe perfunctory and certainly would be there to scare Peters and the others mentioned in the suit.

The fact that CBS says (on paper, at least) that would take this case to a jury would also be a message that they think they have a very strong case.

It's also likely the jury would be harder on Peters than CBS would be. Peters DOES NOT want this to go before a jury. So this creates incentive for a settlement and leverages CBS's bargaining power in the process.

Whoops! Sorry. That last bit is based on the faulty assumption that Peters is acting rationally in all this and understands that all is basically lost and it only gets worse from here. In his mind, he may relish the idea of pontificating in front of a jury.

The jury request is pretty standard in this sort of case. The one reason you do want a jury is that they are essentially laypersons who know how to exercise common sense. Peters may be able to sell his donors on the finer distinctions between what he's producing and CBS IP, but no "person off the street" will be able to distinguish Axanar from licensed Star Trek.

Well in Cali with the studios be the largest employer, how many jurors would vote for a IP thief
.

 

[oswriter]

Whoops! Sorry. That last bit is based on the faulty assumption that Peters is acting rationally in all this and understands that all is basically lost and it only gets worse from here. In his mind, he may relish the idea of pontificating in front of a jury.

I've dealt with a lot of "crazy" litigants. And by crazy, I don't mean mentally ill. Rather, they are convinced the righteousness of their cause will somehow persuade a judge.

Years ago I worked with a woman who tried to get her case heard by the Supreme Court. She was a perfectly nice lady who had a legitimate argument. But it wasn't the sort of thing the Supreme Court would ever seriously consider. I tried to convince her of that, but she insisted on filing a petition. It ended as I expected.

My educated guess with respect to Peters is he thinks he can convince a judge that what he's doing is fair use and get the case tossed on summary judgment. If he pulls it off, he's set a precedent that will "protect all fan films." And until a judge rules against him, he's going to maintain that fantasy. Unfortunately, unlike the case involving my female friend, he's going to drag a lot of other people (and their money) down with them.

 

[Jedman67]

Well in Cali with the studios be the largest employer, how many jurors would vote for a IP thief
.

My brother and sister are both lawyers. It's not unheard of a jury selection to be "stacked" in order to pressure the defendant into accepting a plea deal (of course a jury has to be fair and impartial. but a good attorney could "suggest" that the selected members have a greater than 50% chance of voting against)

 

[SeerSGB]

Well in Cali with the studios be the largest employer, how many jurors would vote for a IP thief
.

My brother and sister are both lawyers. It's not unheard of a jury selection to be "stacked" in order to pressure the defendant into accepting a plea deal (of course a jury has to be fair and impartial. but a good attorney could "suggest" that the selected members have a greater than 50% chance of voting against)

In a state where the largest employer justifies shit tier pay and employment practices for the peon cause of IP theives. Peters will be painted as the biggest IP infringer since Kim DotCom

 

[Ion]

Shrug.

I wish I knew how questions and a pretty respectful (this is the Internet after all, folks; there's bound to be at least some snark) disagreement and insistence on following copyright law turned into hate.

I don't hate these folks. I don't know 'em.

They don't take up anywhere near enough space in my noggin for me to go so far as to hate them, and I doubt they ever will.

I honestly think it's mostly snark (certainly is for me), and Peters having had his sense of humor surgically removed at birth, which causes him to call everyone who snarks at or disagrees with him a hater. Or something.

There's also the fact that Peters has a tendency to overreact to everything in a way that quickly bypasses humorous and lands squarely in "disturbing to watch". Axanar Marines. 'nuff said.

That said, there are a lot of folk here that are heavily invested in fan films. I think a lot of people are increasingly scared that this will have a massive impact on the thing they love; the thing they've dedicated countless dollars and hours of their lives to. It has the potential to go well beyond just Axanar and Peters.

Fear leads to anger an' all...

Oh wait, wrong fandom.

PS: Nice podcast the other day. Was enjoyable to listen to.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Shrug.

I wish I knew how questions and a pretty respectful (this is the Internet after all, folks; there's bound to be at least some snark) disagreement and insistence on following copyright law turned into hate.

I don't hate these folks. I don't know 'em.

They don't take up anywhere near enough space in my noggin for me to go so far as to hate them, and I doubt they ever will.

They think We are attacking something they love... of course they think we hate them....

 

[jespah]

Aw, thanks, Ion. I always worry I sound way too Lung Eyeland, and I stopped living there, egad, over 20 years ago.