CBS's "Rules of Engagement" for Star Trek Fan Films

[PattyW]

I think just how far folks will go before they receive a 'cease and desist' letter is yet to be determined. How much further after that they have to go before they are formally served and sued is yet another issue.

So many fan films have been doing things that we thought were 'over the line' lately, including one rumored to have ignored a cease and desist letter with no consequences, that it's hard to know anything right now.

Throw into the mix the franchise copyright decision depriving Superman of sole use of what I would have thought were CLEARLY trademarks, even without the whole franchise copyright thing...

Well, it's getting very vague.

Copyright, both common law and code law, is not forever, and franchise copyright is common law, with no code law.

I was told in a personal phone call I had with one of the principles of Star Trek: Equinox that they claim to have talked extensively with CBS legal about exactly what they are doing. While most of the board members here do not believe that this is a pilot for a strait-to-DVD limited series ... well, that's what they claim. They do say they will ALSO be doing a fan film based on the same overall concept which they will be allowed to release if CBS passes on the series. It's all being shot with union rules. Obviously, however, CBS has not elected to provide funding.

That's the only independent Star Trek Film which I know which seems to be selling stuff to raise money. I have not spoken with them since their Kickstarter failed and they started with this selling stuff business. Did they clear this with CBS? Who knows? Was what they told me true? I have no clue. I listen and report.

I was making a point of not naming names.

Either way, I think this is way too close to the line, and the people in question should consider a rethink.

Last I knew, Farragut Films also had a shop up selling Farragut merchandise to help fund the production. They've had it up for years and no one has said anything. (I'm assuming, because it's still up.) Don't they sell stuff at the Farragut Fest as well?

 

[PattyW]

Isn't it in CBS's best interest not to provide a guidelines or guidance as to what is and isn't allowed? Let's them eat their cake and have it to: They can drop the hammer at any time on anyone or everyone and say "well we never approved of it anyway".

They actually have provided guidelines to almost every fanfilm individually. The ones they gave to us at Phase II while I was involved are posted at the beginning of this thread. Speaking to other fanfilms at the time, each one seems to have gotten a modified version of them...and they didn't all match. For instance, on fanfilm I am aware of was told they could not sell uniforms or anything else to fund the project. Phase II was not told that at all, and folks at Farragut and Excalibur are selling uniforms etc so it seems they weren't told that either.

So, yes, it's better for CBS to not issue a public document for everyone to follow. That way, at any time, they can suddenly declare that their licenses are being violated and shut an action or a production down.

 

[USS Intrepid]

Last I knew, Farragut Films also had a shop up selling Farragut merchandise to help fund the production. They've had it up for years and no one has said anything. (I'm assuming, because it's still up.) Don't they sell stuff at the Farragut Fest as well?

I'd completely forgotten about that, probably because it's something they don't really go out of their way to advertise. That said, they don't appear to be selling anything explicitly copyrighted, so maybe CBS is more willing to turn a blind eye.

I remain uncomfortable with the concept.

 

[SeerSGB]

Isn't it in CBS's best interest not to provide a guidelines or guidance as to what is and isn't allowed? Let's them eat their cake and have it to: They can drop the hammer at any time on anyone or everyone and say "well we never approved of it anyway".

They actually have provided guidelines to almost every fanfilm individually. The ones they gave to us at Phase II while I was involved are posted at the beginning of this thread. Speaking to other fanfilms at the time, each one seems to have gotten a modified version of them...and they didn't all match. For instance, on fanfilm I am aware of was told they could not sell uniforms or anything else to fund the project. Phase II was not told that at all, and folks at Farragut and Excalibur are selling uniforms etc so it seems they weren't told that either.

So, yes, it's better for CBS to not issue a public document for everyone to follow. That way, at any time, they can suddenly declare that their licenses are being violated and shut an action or a production down.

Seems a bit...dangerous (to use the wrong word) to be doing that. Is it one single contact person cherry picking who can do what and how or a dept where you've got multi people giving differing opinions?

At some point, couldn't it come back as "well you let "A" do it so we assumed it was allowed." or "If "B" can do it, then why can't "C" and "D" do it too?"

Wouldn't the smarter approach be to simply either shut it all down, or say "Don't make money, period, don't care what it's for or what you're selling, don't sell, don't charge subscriptions, don't run ads, don't make a single cent or your ass is grass."

It's fascinating (no pun intended) cause so much of what goes on behind the scenes in fan-films (personal drama aside) is a good primer for folks looking to get into online content creation; whether it's original or fan content. Sort of "YMMV, but he's some of the BS you could get yourself into."

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

Project: Potemkin's directives from CBS are no doubt due to the fact that our series is set in the post-Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country time-frame rather than the original series or Modern Trek time frame. Even though we rarely use them, I noted with interest that Anovos recently came out with the "monster maroons" from our time frame: http://www.anovos.com/collections/star-trek-the-wrath-of-khan

 

[PattyW]

Seems a bit...dangerous (to use the wrong word) to be doing that. Is it one single contact person cherry picking who can do what and how or a dept where you've got multi people giving differing opinions?

From contact with other fanfilms, it's one person. The head of CBS legal in New York. When that person came on board a couple years ago, they went through every fanfilm one at a time, reviewed what they were doing, and sent them a message.

Before this new person came on board there really was no one keeping track of what fan films were doing. Phase II often got contacted by various people out in LA before that, but usually by people that wanted to somehow license the show in some form or another. (such as including the episodes as bonus features on licensed DVDs). Though they did get a C&D way back for "Come What May" when you could get a free DVD copy of it if you donated to the Shuttle charity. ("we don't want no dead astronaughts kids making money off Star Trek!" - or something to that effect.)

At some point, couldn't it come back as "well you let "A" do it so we assumed it was allowed." or "If "B" can do it, then why can't "C" and "D" do it too?"

Wouldn't the smarter approach be to simply either shut it all down, or say "Don't make money, period, don't care what it's for or what you're selling, don't sell, don't charge subscriptions, don't run ads, don't make a single cent or your ass is grass."

What seems to be "simpler" and "makes most sense" is not necessarily what CBS wants to do at this point in time. And, for the record, they HAVE said the second paragraph. They just aren't ENFORCING it at this point in time.

What or when or why they are waiting to enforce it can only be guessed at.

 

[PattyW]

I came looking for this thread because several people have asked for the link to it. I had forgotten how much discussion was in it among filmmakers. It's pretty darn interesting in hindsight now seeing what's going on with Paramount's suit against Loken/Linnear et al.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

I came looking for this thread because several people have asked for the link to it. I had forgotten how much discussion was in it among filmmakers. It's pretty darn interesting in hindsight now seeing what's going on with Paramount's suit against Loken/Linnear et al.

Necrothread....

Yup, I read through this entire thread back when the story broke...

What I find most interesting, is that basically the rules all come down to, Don't make money, and don't take credit....

 

[lurok]

Fascinating retro read in light of current developments.

 

[Maurice]

I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.

That was on April 1, 2014, 02:43 PM. It took a while, but sho nuff...

 

[Zaminhon]

Some really great information and a lot of prescience in this thread. CBS was handed that one case they needed on a silver platter.

 

[Mudd]

Isn't it in CBS's best interest not to provide a guidelines or guidance as to what is and isn't allowed? Let's them eat their cake and have it to: They can drop the hammer at any time on anyone or everyone and say "well we never approved of it anyway".

They actually have provided guidelines to almost every fanfilm individually. The ones they gave to us at Phase II while I was involved are posted at the beginning of this thread. Speaking to other fanfilms at the time, each one seems to have gotten a modified version of them...and they didn't all match. For instance, on fanfilm I am aware of was told they could not sell uniforms or anything else to fund the project. Phase II was not told that at all, and folks at Farragut and Excalibur are selling uniforms etc so it seems they weren't told that either.

So, yes, it's better for CBS to not issue a public document for everyone to follow. That way, at any time, they can suddenly declare that their licenses are being violated and shut an action or a production down.

Seems a bit...dangerous (to use the wrong word) to be doing that. Is it one single contact person cherry picking who can do what and how or a dept where you've got multi people giving differing opinions?

At some point, couldn't it come back as "well you let "A" do it so we assumed it was allowed." or "If "B" can do it, then why can't "C" and "D" do it too?"

Wouldn't the smarter approach be to simply either shut it all down, or say "Don't make money, period, don't care what it's for or what you're selling, don't sell, don't charge subscriptions, don't run ads, don't make a single cent or your ass is grass."

It's fascinating (no pun intended) cause so much of what goes on behind the scenes in fan-films (personal drama aside) is a good primer for folks looking to get into online content creation; whether it's original or fan content. Sort of "YMMV, but he's some of the BS you could get yourself into."

andriech also told stories about having sold a script to Chico And The Man during early adolescence - she wrote it out longhand on a legal pad, mailed it to the producer who then filmed it but put the name of another established writer on it.

Make of that what you will.

 

[Maurice]

andriech also told stories about having sold a script to Chico And The Man during early adolescence - she wrote it out longhand on a legal pad, mailed it to the producer who then filmed it but put the name of another established writer on it.

Make of that what you will.

I spoke to that writer. "Took [me] about six seconds" to find him.

 

[Mudd]

Yes, I remember. Ron Friedman?

I wrote a “Chico and the Man” episode. I actually sent the episode to Jack Komack (“Chico”’s producer) – believe it or not – hand-written on a yellow legal pad. He sent me back a hand-written note that said “Thanks so much!” and two crisp $20. The episode was filmed without a single change, but credited to the show’s writing team. It’s on the “Best of” DVD.

 

[Karzak]

Yes, I remember. Ron Friedman?

I wrote a “Chico and the Man” episode. I actually sent the episode to Jack Komack (“Chico”’s producer) – believe it or not – hand-written on a yellow legal pad. He sent me back a hand-written note that said “Thanks so much!” and two crisp $20. The episode was filmed without a single change, but credited to the show’s writing team. It’s on the “Best of” DVD.

"And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon!"

 

[Maurice]

Yes, I remember. Ron Friedman?

I wrote a “Chico and the Man” episode. I actually sent the episode to Jack Komack (“Chico”’s producer) – believe it or not – hand-written on a yellow legal pad. He sent me back a hand-written note that said “Thanks so much!” and two crisp $20. The episode was filmed without a single change, but credited to the show’s writing team. It’s on the “Best of” DVD.

Yep.

Without sharing private correspondence without his consent, I believe I can summarize his feelings on the matter with a single emoticon:

​

,

 

[SeerSGB]

They actually have provided guidelines to almost every fanfilm individually. The ones they gave to us at Phase II while I was involved are posted at the beginning of this thread. Speaking to other fanfilms at the time, each one seems to have gotten a modified version of them...and they didn't all match. For instance, on fanfilm I am aware of was told they could not sell uniforms or anything else to fund the project. Phase II was not told that at all, and folks at Farragut and Excalibur are selling uniforms etc so it seems they weren't told that either.

So, yes, it's better for CBS to not issue a public document for everyone to follow. That way, at any time, they can suddenly declare that their licenses are being violated and shut an action or a production down.

Seems a bit...dangerous (to use the wrong word) to be doing that. Is it one single contact person cherry picking who can do what and how or a dept where you've got multi people giving differing opinions?

At some point, couldn't it come back as "well you let "A" do it so we assumed it was allowed." or "If "B" can do it, then why can't "C" and "D" do it too?"

Wouldn't the smarter approach be to simply either shut it all down, or say "Don't make money, period, don't care what it's for or what you're selling, don't sell, don't charge subscriptions, don't run ads, don't make a single cent or your ass is grass."

It's fascinating (no pun intended) cause so much of what goes on behind the scenes in fan-films (personal drama aside) is a good primer for folks looking to get into online content creation; whether it's original or fan content. Sort of "YMMV, but he's some of the BS you could get yourself into."

andriech also told stories about having sold a script to Chico And The Man during early adolescence - she wrote it out longhand on a legal pad, mailed it to the producer who then filmed it but put the name of another established writer on it.

Make of that what you will.

Holy shit, I said that over a year ago and it's what's happening now. Maybe I need to get a crystal ball and set up shop telling fortunes.

 

[PattyW]

Yep.

,

Thanks for his name! I'm going to get him to sign my yellow legal pad script next time I'm in LA!

 

[Maurice]

Thanks for his name! I'm going to get him to sign my yellow legal pad script next time I'm in LA!

You want his email address? He's easy to find.

 

[PattyW]

He can't really sign anything via email, but maybe I can set up a meeting that way. You have my email.

(that this is still being repeatedly brought up is ridiculous. I wrote a script called "Chico's Father". I sent the script handwritten on it's yellow legal pad to Jack Komack. I received cash and a thank you note back from him. Later, an episode named "Chico's Padre" aired with nearly the same plot and dialogue. To me and my family and friends, that meant he produced my script. Could Ron have written an almost identical script and Komack just figured sending me cash would stop me from suing? Probably. And to elevate this whole thing to the level of witch hunt it has been is just bizarre.) But I think it would be pretty cool for Ron to sign my script.