CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Woulfe]

I'd also add that one also has to consider when something ceases to be a complimentary tribute and then becomes a commercial competitor. This has unquestionably become the latter.

How else is AP going to make his "pet project" look as good as the "real" thing, obviously he's looking to hire ILM to do the FX now, and they don't come cheap...

 

[Campe]

Also, if it is a "fan" film, why is Peters' girlfriend getting paid, let alone himself?

If he had money and was bankrolling the whole affair I could just about see the argument, even if he was having to pay for professional help. But he's just whoring off the good nature of the public. Seriously, what contribution does his girlfriend make to the project that warrants her being paid multiple times the likes of Burnett?

Diana puts postage on packages and sends it out. Perfect reason for a full-time job.

My biggest issue with this whole shebang has always been Alec and Diana drawing salaries. I absolutely think its shady and shifty as it is. I get professional union members needing to get paid. Alec, as far as I know, is not a member of the P.G.A. (not the golf one) and Diana is not a member of the postal... union? They should be doing this out of their love of Star Trek. Not for a quick buck.

 

[Campe]

I'd also add that one also has to consider when something ceases to be a complimentary tribute and then becomes a commercial competitor. This has unquestionably become the latter.

How else is AP going to make his "pet project" look as good as the "real" thing, obviously he's looking to hire ILM to do the FX now, and they don't come cheap...

I heard he's hoping ILM will work pro bono.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

I'd also add that one also has to consider when something ceases to be a complimentary tribute and then becomes a commercial competitor. This has unquestionably become the latter.

How else is AP going to make his "pet project" look as good as the "real" thing, obviously he's looking to hire ILM to do the FX now, and they don't come cheap...

I heard he's hoping ILM will work pro bono.

lol

 

[Earthrise]

Going by what Peters is saying, it isn't. From the link:

A hallmark of fan films is the creator making himself the central character, whether that is Kirk or Pike or whomever. While that is fine for a fan film, we are shooting for something different.

What I just don't quite understand is what's in it for the actors? Are they insulated from any fallout on this, thus making it a reasonable job opportunity for them? Or are they going to run like hell when the casting director calls?

It just seems like being a part of a production that CBS and Paramount, two big employers of actors, most likely consider outlaw might not be the best career move.

Either the actors being cast are new and/or rabid trek fans and will take any foot in any door or anything with trek in it; Haven't been following the news of the lawsuit (their agents should be on top of that if they get a call!) or don't care.

I doubt that anyone professionally involved would take such a job after this lawsuit made the news.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. The announcement makes it look like he wants to cast professional actors, but I'm not sure they would benefit by being in "Axanar." As for people who are just starting out and want to get a foot in the door, but who are fully focused on a professional career, I'm not sure they would benefit by being in "Axanar."

So that pretty much leaves the people who want to get a foot in the door, but don't have the type of prospects that would lead them to say "Nope, not gonna risk it with CBS and Paramount", and your hardcore Trek fans, most of whom are likely amateur actors. Those groups just don't seem to be who Peters is looking to cast from. But who knows at this point?

(Also, I'm not knocking the amateur actors here. I've worked with a lot of incredibly talented ones and others whose passion has made up for any rough spots in their work. Put an amateur actor in the right production and the right role and you can get a great piece of entertainment. They just don't tend to bring a lot of exciting name recognition and people don't tend to view what they do as "professional," even if they carry themselves and treat their craft like a pro.)

 

[Zaminhon]

It's LORD Peters! .. and don't forget it!

 

[Jedman67]

Going by what Peters is saying, it isn't. From the link:

What I just don't quite understand is what's in it for the actors? Are they insulated from any fallout on this, thus making it a reasonable job opportunity for them? Or are they going to run like hell when the casting director calls?

It just seems like being a part of a production that CBS and Paramount, two big employers of actors, most likely consider outlaw might not be the best career move.

Either the actors being cast are new and/or rabid trek fans and will take any foot in any door or anything with trek in it; Haven't been following the news of the lawsuit (their agents should be on top of that if they get a call!) or don't care.

I doubt that anyone professionally involved would take such a job after this lawsuit made the news.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. The announcement makes it look like he wants to cast professional actors, but I'm not sure they would benefit by being in "Axanar." As for people who are just starting out and want to get a foot in the door, but who are fully focused on a professional career, I'm not sure they would benefit by being in "Axanar."

So that pretty much leaves the people who want to get a foot in the door, but don't have the type of prospects that would lead them to say "Nope, not gonna risk it with CBS and Paramount", and your hardcore Trek fans, most of whom are likely amateur actors. Those groups just don't seem to be who Peters is looking to cast from. But who knows at this point?

(Also, I'm not knocking the amateur actors here. I've worked with a lot of incredibly talented ones and others whose passion has made up for any rough spots in their work. Put an amateur actor in the right production and the right role and you can get a great piece of entertainment. They just don't tend to bring a lot of exciting name recognition and people don't tend to view what they do as "professional," even if they carry themselves and treat their craft like a pro.)

I was thinking of recently-graduated actors looking for a gig who happen to also be rabid trek fans.

 

[Jedman67]

Kind of like Daisy Ridley or John Boyega, before they were cast in SW:TFA they were relatively unknown.

 

[mos6507]

I'd also add that one also has to consider when something ceases to be a complimentary tribute and then becomes a commercial competitor. This has unquestionably become the latter.

How else is AP going to make his "pet project" look as good as the "real" thing, obviously he's looking to hire ILM to do the FX now, and they don't come cheap...

I heard he's hoping ILM will work pro bono.

This actually raises an important point.

If crowdfunding could raise enough money for Axanar to hire ILM, wouldn't it be fair to hold ILM liable for in some way colluding with Alec for the sake of making money? Even if Alec didn't, ILM would.

Consider that aligning with a major VFX house like this makes a huge difference in selling the project to the public.

At a smaller scale, that is what happened with Axanar by linking the project with various name actors and with Tobias.

And Tobias work comprises roughly 11% of the entire Prelude budget.

I just think the contractor thing is a loophole wide enough to drive a Starship through it.

Left unchecked, big budget crowdfunded fan-films provide a viable cottage industry for industry pros--as "contractors". Should the buck really stop only at the producers if these contractors' involvement are so critical to scoring crowdfunding in the first place?

 

[Woulfe]

It's LORD Peters! .. and don't forget it!

LOAD... Peters ?

Well, he's certainly full of it... So why not...

Sorry, my bad... I'll just go stand in the corner now...

 

[Squiggy]

Since I'm sure everyone at ILM knows about the current predicament...they're not going to touch this with a 40 foot poll.

 

[Earthrise]

I was thinking of recently-graduated actors looking for a gig who happen to also be rabid trek fans.

That talent pool is truly vast.

 

[JoeZhang]

Kind of like Daisy Ridley or John Boyega, before they were cast in SW:TFA they were relatively unknown.

I don't know about Daisy Ridley but Boyega was on an upwards trajectory and it would be...odd.. for someone like him to decide to appear in fan fiction...

 

[oswriter]

How else is AP going to make his "pet project" look as good as the "real" thing, obviously he's looking to hire ILM to do the FX now, and they don't come cheap...

I heard he's hoping ILM will work pro bono.

This actually raises an important point.

If crowdfunding could raise enough money for Axanar to hire ILM, wouldn't it be fair to hold ILM liable for in some way colluding with Alec for the sake of making money? Even if Alec didn't, ILM would.

Consider that aligning with a major VFX house like this makes a huge difference in selling the project to the public.

At a smaller scale, that is what happened with Axanar by linking the project with various name actors and with Tobias.

And Tobias work comprises roughly 11% of the entire Prelude budget.

I just think the contractor thing is a loophole wide enough to drive a Starship through it.

Left unchecked, big budget crowdfunded fan-films provide a viable cottage industry for industry pros--as "contractors". Should the buck really stop only at the producers if these contractors' involvement are so critical to scoring crowdfunding in the first place?

I believe that is why the lawsuit names John Does. The studios are clearly signaling an interest in this "cottage industry. "

 

[mos6507]

I was thinking of recently-graduated actors looking for a gig who happen to also be rabid trek fans.

That talent pool is truly vast.

Actors most likely to work on these things are the type of actors we've already seen. These are actors who are already regulars in the convention circuit who would probably want nothing better than to rack up some on-screen credits again. This is also why we've seen cross-pollination from the likes of Lou Ferrigno, Erin Gray, Gil Gerard, etc... These are people who can be easily courted by fan-film producers at conventions. They don't have to go through layers of agents or anything.

 

[oswriter]

There is no fair use. Sometimes people need to stop trying to be clever by looking at the ins and outs of authority and take a step back for a second.

The real questions this situation asks are as follows:-

1) Is it for all intents and purposes a professional movie?

2) Can the public potentially mistake it for an official production?

3) Is someone making money off of it?

4) Is it overtly and entirely based on the property it infringes?

If the answer to even one of those is yes, how can a fair use defence possibly succeed?

1. If the producers are to be believed, this is a professional movie. They have a paid production staff, they have paid actors/Director.. they have taken out insurance... they have promoted themselves as professional...

2. CNN Mistook Renegades for a an official production.. so perhaps

3. This is tricky... Is drawing a salary "Making money" I agree 100% that it is... but not everyone in the Jury pool might see it as such

4. Absolutely...

That's why I think, they are trying to muddy the waters around number 3 so much.. thats why the non profit 'red herring' as I like to think of it is thrown out there so much.... just to confuse the reality is, that the producer, the guy who's said, I wanna make my own fan film, is making a salary, making his fan film, is most certainly profiting from it.

To (3), I'd cite the coffee and other merchandising to be evidence of profit making, if not for them then for third parties.

Also, if it is a "fan" film, why is Peters' girlfriend getting paid, let alone himself?

If he had money and was bankrolling the whole affair I could just about see the argument, even if he was having to pay for professional help. But he's just whoring off the good nature of the public. Seriously, what contribution does his girlfriend make to the project that warrants her being paid multiple times the likes of Burnett?

To clarify things further, they sold professionally produced Blu-rays under the guise of "donor perks." Burnett's claim to fame, after all, is as the guy who produced the TNG Blu-rays.

 

[Campe]

I wonder what its going to take for Peters to settle this thing. I mean, he doesn't have a chance in hell to win it and it's going to keep on keepin' on until an injunction. CBS/Paramount is probably not get their $150k per infringement either by Axanar/Peters bankruptcy or the Court allowing for a lesser verdict. Axanar will likely be halted here via an injunction in the next month. I mean I know why this is happening. But what is the endgame here?

 

[Earthrise]

Kind of like Daisy Ridley or John Boyega, before they were cast in SW:TFA they were relatively unknown.

I don't know about Daisy Ridley but Boyega was on an upwards trajectory and it would be...odd.. for someone like him to decide to appear in fan fiction...

Yes. Speaking as someone only tangentially familiar with how Hollywood works, I think there's a difference between fan film, independent film, and studio films when it comes to building a career. Independent films are a good way to lay the foundation to move to studio films--if you pick the right ones and get lucky. I don't see fan films leading in the same direction. They appear to exist separately from the rest of the industry, probably due to the IP issues. I'd imagine that it's possible for a new actor to gain experience in fan films before jumping to independents, but I also imagine that it would be something left off the resume once the jump has happened. I don't see an actor trying the fan film to independents approach as signing on to a fan film that is very publicly in conflict with the rights-holder, though, because of how indiscreet it is.

Anyway, I just keep thinking of that documentary "The Hollywood Complex." None of the kids featured in it appeared to have any real shot at a career in Hollywood and their parents didn't seem to have any real understanding of how the industry worked. Those strike me as the type of people who might think getting involved with a production as controversial as "Axanar" would be a great way to get one's foot in the door.

Edit to Add:

Actors most likely to work on these things are the type of actors we've already seen. These are actors who are already regulars in the convention circuit who would probably want nothing better than to rack up some on-screen credits again. This is also why we've seen cross-pollination from the likes of Lou Ferrigno, Erin Gray, Gil Gerard, etc... These are people who can be easily courted by fan-film producers at conventions. They don't have to go through layers of agents or anything.

Yeah, that seems like the most likely course of action. I got the impression from the post that Peters wanted to look outside the talent pool that fan films have been drawing on, but going the specialist route might be the most productive for him. (I'm not sure how many of them would want to be tied to "Axanar" at this point, though. Maybe his best bet is to look for people who have never heard of "Axanar.")

 

[BillJ]

I wonder what its going to take for Peters to settle this thing. I mean, he doesn't have a chance in hell to win it and it's going to keep on keepin' on. CBS/Paramount is probably not get their $150k per infringement either by bankruptcy or the Court. Axanar will likely be halted here via an injunction in the next month. I mean I know why this is happening. But what is the endgame here?

I think, at this point, Peters is hoping to keep collecting cash until an injunction comes down. For what purpose? Who knows?

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

Another question to the Legal folks here... would CBS/Paramount be within their rights to require You Tube to pull videos that they believe contain Copyrighted works (Prelude, the Vulcan Scene) ? If so, how come, do you think, they haven't yet done that?