CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[HMS Ark Royal]

Rura Penthe is nice this time of year..........

Why do I suddenly see the main guy of the whole mess in the ice & snow of Rura Penthe dancing around & singing....

" Let it gooooooooo, Let it gooooooooo "

Okay now I'm getting silly, aren't I ?

Medical team to the forum page

 

[Mudd]

To the best of my knowledge, CBS has never made a public statement anywhere laying out "guidelines" for fan film productions.

In the past, one or more fan film productions have reported here that they've been in contact with CBS and have described their understanding of what is and is not permitted. Their reports may or may not be 100% accurate - clearly Peters' is at variance with what CBS personnel told The Wrap - but in any event a second-hand description of informal communications is a different animal than any official sanctioning of such productions.

 

[OpenMaw]

To the best of my knowledge, CBS has never made a public statement anywhere laying out "guidelines" for fan film productions.

Ehhhh....
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=7097665&postcount=36

Mallory, the head of CBS legal, is in contact with James and I constantly; and, frankly, "they" are on our website and forums on a daily basis. She is the "recently new sheriff in town" and since she took over, spent some time going through sites one at a time and contacting the folks involved. If you run a fan film that is currently in production and have not heard from her, expect to.

Because of our visibility, New Voyages/Phase II actually faces stricter standards than other fan films...and we are happy to comply with every one of their requests. Every contact with them has been overwhelmingly pleasant.

In general, the guidelines are:

- you cannot use the word "Official" in anything with the words "Star Trek" in it.

- you cannot use ANY elements from the movie directed by JJ Abrams. That includes uniforms or the universe established by it. (In other words, if you are talking about Pike and George on the Kelvin in your fan film, they are going to yank it.)

- you cannot sell DVDs, posters, or other merchandise with the word "Star Trek" on it. Giving such things away is a grey area that fan films would do well to avoid.

- you cannot use any images from the licensed franchise. ("free use" clips not included.)

- you cannot use anything that Desilu/CBS/Paramount/Viacom/etc has paid for at any time in the past. The franchise is alive again and they may want to use it themselves...even if the script or concept drawing is 50 years old. (That's why you'll never see James Cawley selling the patterns Bill Theiss willed him.)

- anything with the words "Star Trek" on it must also have the following statement on it, or one like it provided by CBS legal. "STAR TREK and all related marks, logos and characters are owned by CBS Studios Inc. “********”, the website, the promotion thereof and/or any exhibition of material created by ******* are not endorsed or sponsored by or affiliated with CBS/Paramount Pictures or the STAR TREK franchise."

If you run any site that has any copyrighted material on it, or deals with Star Trek, you would do yourself a favor and buy endless good will with TPTB by going right now and adding that disclaimer to every page in it. It's the least you can do to show you respect their rights and show that you acknowledge what you owe them.

- you cannot ask or take donations or contributions to generally fund your production, fan film, or studio connected to it. (Hence the "donate here" button C&D from CBS that went out to most fan film sites in the last year.) Frankly, there is no way to prove that you are not making a profit from such donations. (other than a very long accounting process to CBS)

- you can ask for donations for a specific purpose. "Please help us buy a keg of beer" "please help us pay the electric bill". "Please help us buy a plane ticket". CBS is okay with those. Perhaps because for these kinds of things, if CBS ever wanted an accounting it would be easy to do... "we got $ and here is the bill we paid with it." The PayPal buttons on our site fall into this category. So does our Indiegogo campaign. We are not asking for donations to "fund the production". We are asking for donations to pay very specific bills associated with this one shoot, which can be quickly detailed to CBS legal. (For that reason "Kickstarter" campaigns immediately qualify as a no-no: as Kickstarter requires the campaigns on it's site to be funding an entire project, not just a piece of it.)

I agree with both Linnear and Potempkin Productions. The above guidelines, given by CBS legal, are helpful to share with all fans, and can only buy goodwill with CBS as people that could be contacted comply with them before that email comes.

On the other hand, there have been many conversations with Mallory regarding Phase II or the people involved in it or work that we are doing that are our private business and should not be shared with the public due to confidentiality of the business dealings: except generally as it affects our fans. (Such as the broad statement about not filming Spinrad's script.)

A few things people should remember:

- They own Star Trek. Plain and simple.

- They are making a considerable profit on it now and do not want competition. (hence the "no JJ stuff" rule.)

- They are not unreasonable. (In fact, one of our artists negotiated a deal to sell a commercially produced and marketed book with his some of his Star Trek art he did for us in it.)

- Mallory doesn't just sit around watching fan film sites and dealings...she is the head of CBS legal. Though Linnear posted her name, she does not want fans contacting her or writing to her. If you are a fan film producer, website designer, etc, and want to reach out to her, contact me through my email and I will provide her contact information: or send yours and your concern on to her. (based on what she's told me to do with each type of request.)

As a P.S. I'd like to clear up two things.

First, "copyright infringement" in these kinds of cases can only be brought to court when the copyright holder can prove harm to the copyright owner's ability to profit from their product. Including profits you are making (and thus taking them away from the owner) or damage to the product that results in reduced profits. (this is why fan films and fan film producers need to keep any bad blood out of the courts. Having CBS news carrying a story on Trek fan films battling it out in front of a judge would give them bad PR...and, no, not all PR is good for the product.)

Second, as far as the uniforms go...the only thing copyrighted regarding the TOS uniforms is the insignia. Legally, you cannot sell reproduction uniforms on eBay with the insignia on them. You cannot sell the insignia. Do people do it? Yes. CBS let's most of them do it. But it's illegal and CBS could shut them down any time they want, and have in some cases. (You could take them to court and win on a technicality I won't go into, but who has the money to battle CBS?)

FYI: fashion law is it's own book. You cannot copyright a "pattern" that "defines" a piece of clothing. CBS cannot legally issue a C&D that says "you cannot sell a piece of clothing that looks like the clothing worn on our copyrighted show." Do I believe they said that to Potempkin? Sure. But they can't enforce it and they're banking on the group not knowing that, or not wanting to piss them off. In fact, they did bring a costumer to court several years ago (long before Mallory took over) and the result was the first day of the trail the judge laughed them out of court and advised them to get a lawyer that knew what the hell he was doing.

OG thread:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=187825

 

[KennyB]

No need to raise your shields sir, I never said it wasn't appropriate to reach out to a friend in troubled times. It WAS very classy. I was pointing out that, as worded, it seemed like he was more about bringing attention to the ones who did NOT. That is all.

 

[USS Intrepid]

To the best of my knowledge, CBS has never made a public statement anywhere laying out "guidelines" for fan film productions.

Ehhhh....
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=7097665&postcount=36

SNIP

The key point being "public statement". Neither CBS nor Paramount have said squat publicly. Regardless of Patty's comment, she is quoting what has supposedly been said privately to one particular group. It's certainly not a public statement.

When someone was doing a piece on us years ago, they contacted the Studio to get a statement. The response was no comment. Make of that what you will.

No need to raise your shields sir, I never said it wasn't appropriate to reach out to a friend in troubled times. It WAS very classy. I was pointing out that, as worded, it seemed like he was more about bringing attention to the ones who did NOT. That is all.

Thanks, guess it's all just a little embarrassing is all.

 

[mos6507]

Does anyone want to see the young adventures of anyone who went mad later attacked an entire race?

The Star Wars prequels made Darth Vader into a protagonist as Anakin. There's a long tradition of storytelling in which the good guy "goes bad".

Finally, I thought it was a di&k move of Peters to single out only Star Trek Continues and Renegades as his justification.

Selective enforcement is something that the public innately knows is unfair, but as far as I know, it's not a legal defense. Just go to Youtube if you want to see selective enforcement at its worse. Go find a copyrighted song and then try uploading the same song yourself and see how long it goes unflagged. Upload a few, and you'll wind up in "copyright school" Some random channels have millions of ill-gotten hits on their pirate song uploads just because Youtube chose to leave it there.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

I have been pressing Alec on FB about funds from the Kickstarter going into Ares Studios... and he has responded to someone else in the thread saying, "A kickstarter for Ares Studios will be launching shortly"...

WT....

 

[Mudd]

OG thread:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=187825

Yes, that's exactly as I said - a secondhand account by someone formerly involved with a fan film, explaining their understanding based on "conversations."

To the best of my knowledge, no one at CBS has ever publicly sanctioned or provided guidelines for any fan film production.

 

[Karzak]

I can't vouch for anything else, but I'll testify in court that Nick. J. Cook is a classy guy.

Seconded. Nick is great and its worth repeating. Sorry to see his good name getting dragged into this, even if it was Peters complimenting him.

 

[KennyB]

Thanks, guess it's all just a little embarrassing is all.

No need to be brother! Looks like you are doing everything right!

 

[SFC3]

I have been pressing Alec on FB about funds from the Kickstarter going into Ares Studios... and he has responded to someone else in the thread saying, "A kickstarter for Ares Studios will be launching shortly"...

WT....

He has completely ignored me after my request to make their annual report public was posted.

 

[OpenMaw]

The key point being "public statement". Neither CBS nor Paramount have said squat publicly. Regardless of Patty's comment, she is quoting what has supposedly been said privately to one particular group. It's certainly not a public statement.

Hence my "Ehhh..." because, no, no official public statement has been made, productions have been contacted, and some have revealed the details of those conversations. Which made it clear enough to me anyway that fan films in general shouldn't be trifaling with things like crowdfunding or "donor stores."

By the by, I also want to throw my regards out there. I don't think anyone has any ill feelings towards you or your production. Quite the contrary in fact.

...

To the best of my knowledge, no one at CBS has ever publicly sanctioned or provided guidelines for any fan film production.

...Though, admittedly, that would be quite helpful.

 

[Karzak]

To the best of my knowledge, CBS has never made a public statement anywhere laying out "guidelines" for fan film productions.

In the past, one or more fan film productions have reported here that they've been in contact with CBS and have described their understanding of what is and is not permitted. Their reports may or may not be 100% accurate - clearly Peters' is at variance with what CBS personnel told The Wrap - but in any event a second-hand description of informal communications is a different animal than any official sanctioning of such productions.

To the best of my knowledge, CBS has never made a public statement anywhere laying out "guidelines" for fan film productions.

Ehhhh....
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=7097665&postcount=36

Mallory, the head of CBS legal, is in contact with James and I constantly; and, frankly, "they" are on our website and forums on a daily basis. She is the "recently new sheriff in town" and since she took over, spent some time going through sites one at a time and contacting the folks involved. If you run a fan film that is currently in production and have not heard from her, expect to.

Because of our visibility, New Voyages/Phase II actually faces stricter standards than other fan films...and we are happy to comply with every one of their requests. Every contact with them has been overwhelmingly pleasant.

In general, the guidelines are:

- you cannot use the word "Official" in anything with the words "Star Trek" in it.

- you cannot use ANY elements from the movie directed by JJ Abrams. That includes uniforms or the universe established by it. (In other words, if you are talking about Pike and George on the Kelvin in your fan film, they are going to yank it.)

- you cannot sell DVDs, posters, or other merchandise with the word "Star Trek" on it. Giving such things away is a grey area that fan films would do well to avoid.

- you cannot use any images from the licensed franchise. ("free use" clips not included.)

- you cannot use anything that Desilu/CBS/Paramount/Viacom/etc has paid for at any time in the past. The franchise is alive again and they may want to use it themselves...even if the script or concept drawing is 50 years old. (That's why you'll never see James Cawley selling the patterns Bill Theiss willed him.)

- anything with the words "Star Trek" on it must also have the following statement on it, or one like it provided by CBS legal. "STAR TREK and all related marks, logos and characters are owned by CBS Studios Inc. “********”, the website, the promotion thereof and/or any exhibition of material created by ******* are not endorsed or sponsored by or affiliated with CBS/Paramount Pictures or the STAR TREK franchise."

If you run any site that has any copyrighted material on it, or deals with Star Trek, you would do yourself a favor and buy endless good will with TPTB by going right now and adding that disclaimer to every page in it. It's the least you can do to show you respect their rights and show that you acknowledge what you owe them.

- you cannot ask or take donations or contributions to generally fund your production, fan film, or studio connected to it. (Hence the "donate here" button C&D from CBS that went out to most fan film sites in the last year.) Frankly, there is no way to prove that you are not making a profit from such donations. (other than a very long accounting process to CBS)

- you can ask for donations for a specific purpose. "Please help us buy a keg of beer" "please help us pay the electric bill". "Please help us buy a plane ticket". CBS is okay with those. Perhaps because for these kinds of things, if CBS ever wanted an accounting it would be easy to do... "we got $ and here is the bill we paid with it." The PayPal buttons on our site fall into this category. So does our Indiegogo campaign. We are not asking for donations to "fund the production". We are asking for donations to pay very specific bills associated with this one shoot, which can be quickly detailed to CBS legal. (For that reason "Kickstarter" campaigns immediately qualify as a no-no: as Kickstarter requires the campaigns on it's site to be funding an entire project, not just a piece of it.)

I agree with both Linnear and Potempkin Productions. The above guidelines, given by CBS legal, are helpful to share with all fans, and can only buy goodwill with CBS as people that could be contacted comply with them before that email comes.

On the other hand, there have been many conversations with Mallory regarding Phase II or the people involved in it or work that we are doing that are our private business and should not be shared with the public due to confidentiality of the business dealings: except generally as it affects our fans. (Such as the broad statement about not filming Spinrad's script.)

A few things people should remember:

- They own Star Trek. Plain and simple.

- They are making a considerable profit on it now and do not want competition. (hence the "no JJ stuff" rule.)

- They are not unreasonable. (In fact, one of our artists negotiated a deal to sell a commercially produced and marketed book with his some of his Star Trek art he did for us in it.)

- Mallory doesn't just sit around watching fan film sites and dealings...she is the head of CBS legal. Though Linnear posted her name, she does not want fans contacting her or writing to her. If you are a fan film producer, website designer, etc, and want to reach out to her, contact me through my email and I will provide her contact information: or send yours and your concern on to her. (based on what she's told me to do with each type of request.)

As a P.S. I'd like to clear up two things.

First, "copyright infringement" in these kinds of cases can only be brought to court when the copyright holder can prove harm to the copyright owner's ability to profit from their product. Including profits you are making (and thus taking them away from the owner) or damage to the product that results in reduced profits. (this is why fan films and fan film producers need to keep any bad blood out of the courts. Having CBS news carrying a story on Trek fan films battling it out in front of a judge would give them bad PR...and, no, not all PR is good for the product.)

Second, as far as the uniforms go...the only thing copyrighted regarding the TOS uniforms is the insignia. Legally, you cannot sell reproduction uniforms on eBay with the insignia on them. You cannot sell the insignia. Do people do it? Yes. CBS let's most of them do it. But it's illegal and CBS could shut them down any time they want, and have in some cases. (You could take them to court and win on a technicality I won't go into, but who has the money to battle CBS?)

FYI: fashion law is it's own book. You cannot copyright a "pattern" that "defines" a piece of clothing. CBS cannot legally issue a C&D that says "you cannot sell a piece of clothing that looks like the clothing worn on our copyrighted show." Do I believe they said that to Potempkin? Sure. But they can't enforce it and they're banking on the group not knowing that, or not wanting to piss them off. In fact, they did bring a costumer to court several years ago (long before Mallory took over) and the result was the first day of the trail the judge laughed them out of court and advised them to get a lawyer that knew what the hell he was doing.

OG thread:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=187825

You completely ignored the second paragraph of Dennis' post, which you are basically proving by quoting this post.

Never mind that Patty Wright is a proven liar.

 

[Karzak]

From Axanar Fan Page:

Here's to Nick J Cook, the creator/star of Star Trek: Intrepid and Kenneth Thomson of Starship Saladin. They were the only Star Trek fan film creators who bothered to contact me with their support yesterday. That means a lot to me.
You can't buy class. And you always find out who your friends are when things are tough.
.

Times are tough, says the guy posting pics of him and his friends sitting around having a laugh about it.

Once again .... as seen on FB...

 

[OpenMaw]

You completely ignored the second paragraph of Dennis' post, which you are basically proving by quoting this post.

Never mind that Patty Wright is a proven liar.

I wasn't ignoring anything, sir. I was merely pointing a rather hesitant finger at the closest thing we've actually seen on that point.

 

[SuperSpaceMan]

I have been pressing Alec on FB about funds from the Kickstarter going into Ares Studios... and he has responded to someone else in the thread saying, "A kickstarter for Ares Studios will be launching shortly"...

WT....

He has completely ignored me after my request to make their annual report public was posted.

My question has now been deleted.. hmmmm glad I still have a window open.. gonna screen grab that...

 

[Karzak]

You completely ignored the second paragraph of Dennis' post, which you are basically proving by quoting this post.

Never mind that Patty Wright is a proven liar.

I wasn't ignoring anything, sir. I was merely pointing a rather hesitant finger at the closest thing we've actually seen on that point.

Ah. Ok. Easily a mistake/misunderstanding on my part. Apologies for that. My bad!

 

[SFC3]

Very damned well tempted to post hard hitting questions towards Alec, just to see how quickly they're removed and I'm banned from this so called fan group...

 

[KennyB]

Very damned well tempted to post hard hitting questions towards Alec, just to see how quickly they're removed and I'm banned from this so called fan group...

It's really more like a cult today...........

 

[SFC3]

Very damned well tempted to post hard hitting questions towards Alec, just to see how quickly they're removed and I'm banned from this so called fan group...

It's really more like a cult today...........

I couldn't have said it better...