Babylon 5
- Thread starter Kail
- Start date
For what it's worth, I recently did a complete rewatch of the entire series, and here are MY thoughts on it, seeing it with adult eyes...
The first season had the worst acting, across the board, to be sure, but had the most foundation-laying and buildup for what was to come. Sinclair has been, and will always be my favorite B5 commander, period. He simply struck me as the most no-nonsense, most professional, and most diplomatic of all of the station's commanders. Others may disagree, but this is my own personal opinion.
Londo and G'Kar will experience the most character development, and IMO, become the two most solid and gifted actors on the series. Londo may appear visually kinda silly, with the Centauri hair and whatnot, but there are scenes later in the series with Londo that will have you literally in tears. Londo is bar-none my favorite of the alien characters in the show, followed by Ambassador Kosh Naranek.
Delenn and the Minbari are the single most annoying alien race I've ever seen in sci-fi. I truly cannot stand them, at all. Especially Delenn. Delenn just does not know when to shut the hell up. She'll go on and on and on and on and on and on and on, and just never shuts up. I found her so very incredibly annoying. Ditto for Minbari culture. It's just so annoyingly drawn-out and complicated. I hate the Minbari. The ONLY Minbari in the entire show I felt anything for at all, was Lenneir.
For ME, the show ends at the end of the fourth season. EVERYTHING in the fifth season is absolutely useless, and a complete waste of time, IMO. The stories suck beyond belief. The characters suck beyond belief. The fifth season sucks beyond belief. I only watched it because it completes the show, supposedly.
If you watch all of seasons 1 to the end of 4, and the TV movie "In the Beginning", you will be very happy.
The first season had the worst acting, across the board, to be sure, but had the most foundation-laying and buildup for what was to come. Sinclair has been, and will always be my favorite B5 commander, period. He simply struck me as the most no-nonsense, most professional, and most diplomatic of all of the station's commanders. Others may disagree, but this is my own personal opinion.
Londo and G'Kar will experience the most character development, and IMO, become the two most solid and gifted actors on the series. Londo may appear visually kinda silly, with the Centauri hair and whatnot, but there are scenes later in the series with Londo that will have you literally in tears. Londo is bar-none my favorite of the alien characters in the show, followed by Ambassador Kosh Naranek.
Delenn and the Minbari are the single most annoying alien race I've ever seen in sci-fi. I truly cannot stand them, at all. Especially Delenn. Delenn just does not know when to shut the hell up. She'll go on and on and on and on and on and on and on, and just never shuts up. I found her so very incredibly annoying. Ditto for Minbari culture. It's just so annoyingly drawn-out and complicated. I hate the Minbari. The ONLY Minbari in the entire show I felt anything for at all, was Lenneir.
For ME, the show ends at the end of the fourth season. EVERYTHING in the fifth season is absolutely useless, and a complete waste of time, IMO. The stories suck beyond belief. The characters suck beyond belief. The fifth season sucks beyond belief. I only watched it because it completes the show, supposedly.
If you watch all of seasons 1 to the end of 4, and the TV movie "In the Beginning", you will be very happy.
I don't believe so. The episode where David Warner showed up ('Grail'?) was in season one, thus no Boxleitner. Warner did however have a scene with Jurasik, so you could call that a Tron reunion of sorts.
ETA, nevermind. ninja'd.
I stand corrected.
Maybe I should have said a 'loose' Tron reunion?
Once Season 5 and the stories about the Rangers start, it goes downhill for me. The Rangers lose all sense of mystery, like the Jedi in the Star Wars prequels or Morpheus in the sequels to The Matrix.
Re: the city as a character
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/BabylonFiveOthers
B5 was large enough to be a city in space; and varied enough to be both "adventure city" and "city of spies".
It was even more.
With the grail episode, and the King Arthur episode, I was reminded of the history of San Franciso. During the Gold Rush it was a magnet for some real characters.
B5 seemed almost a nascent Jerusalem, with the presence of the Minbari religious cast, as well as priests from Earth.
B5 also had a dash of Las Vegas.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/BabylonFiveOthers
B5 was large enough to be a city in space; and varied enough to be both "adventure city" and "city of spies".
It was even more.
With the grail episode, and the King Arthur episode, I was reminded of the history of San Franciso. During the Gold Rush it was a magnet for some real characters.
B5 seemed almost a nascent Jerusalem, with the presence of the Minbari religious cast, as well as priests from Earth.
B5 also had a dash of Las Vegas.
Aww, even in this scene where she kicks ass? (Spoiler, if you haven't seen the show yet)
Click at time index 47 seconds:
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYloWBP79ro#t=0m47s[/yt]
But your annoyance is really directed at the writer who probably was using her to talk about humans from a distance. Or is it actually directed at Mira Furlan?
^
Yes, even that scene... especially that scene, and I'll explain why in a second. But to answer your question, no... I have nothing against Mira at all in any way... it's all on the writer(s) and the very depiction of the Minbari and their culture. The whole culture and ways of the Minbari were just so endlessly annoying.
Now, regarding that scene... I think it was a huge mistake for JMS to use the Minbari to come to Sheridan's rescue. If they wanted to make a "EarthForce craps its pants" moment, they should have used the Vorlons, and here's why...
- One, the Vorlons (Kosh) would know what is about to go down, and know Babylon 5's role in shaping the future of the universe, so they would want to help things play out as they should.
- Two, no matter what... Minbari or Vorlon, Sheridan IS screwed, in the regard that no matter who showed up, the arrival will fuel Clark's propaganda machine back home on Earth, that Sheridan is in league with alien governments, in a plot to rise up against Earth. In that regard, the damage would be done, no matter what.
- Three, because of the above point, the Minbari would make it 100x worse, as they are a former enemy, which literally came within inches of exterminating the human race. I am SURE there are many on Earth for whom those wounds still run deep, and that Clark would use that to further bolster his case against Sheridan. The Minbari's arrival makes Sheridan look 100x worse to the people of Earth, and doesn't help him. It only feeds Clark's propaganda machine against him.
But someone like the Vorlons... if they had shown up, Clark would have crapped his pants, and know that there were some hella big guns on Sheridan's side, and it may have even made the arc with the reveal of the Shadow's influence on EarthGov go a bit smoother, since it may have forced Clark's hand into utilizing the Shadows and their tech a bit earlier and more openly, and with far less fear of a backlash from the public.
Yes, even that scene... especially that scene, and I'll explain why in a second. But to answer your question, no... I have nothing against Mira at all in any way... it's all on the writer(s) and the very depiction of the Minbari and their culture. The whole culture and ways of the Minbari were just so endlessly annoying.
Now, regarding that scene... I think it was a huge mistake for JMS to use the Minbari to come to Sheridan's rescue. If they wanted to make a "EarthForce craps its pants" moment, they should have used the Vorlons, and here's why...
- One, the Vorlons (Kosh) would know what is about to go down, and know Babylon 5's role in shaping the future of the universe, so they would want to help things play out as they should.
- Two, no matter what... Minbari or Vorlon, Sheridan IS screwed, in the regard that no matter who showed up, the arrival will fuel Clark's propaganda machine back home on Earth, that Sheridan is in league with alien governments, in a plot to rise up against Earth. In that regard, the damage would be done, no matter what.
- Three, because of the above point, the Minbari would make it 100x worse, as they are a former enemy, which literally came within inches of exterminating the human race. I am SURE there are many on Earth for whom those wounds still run deep, and that Clark would use that to further bolster his case against Sheridan. The Minbari's arrival makes Sheridan look 100x worse to the people of Earth, and doesn't help him. It only feeds Clark's propaganda machine against him.
But someone like the Vorlons... if they had shown up, Clark would have crapped his pants, and know that there were some hella big guns on Sheridan's side, and it may have even made the arc with the reveal of the Shadow's influence on EarthGov go a bit smoother, since it may have forced Clark's hand into utilizing the Shadows and their tech a bit earlier and more openly, and with far less fear of a backlash from the public.
I can't agree with you about season 5 mainly because of the centuri storyline and this is the one show that treats alcoholism with the sensitivity and dignity it deserved. You say it's useless and a waste of time, yet if people miss season 5, they miss at least half of the quality that makes B5 a great show.
I agree. I like the whole series, from beginning to end. It's like watching a novel-- each episode is a chapter. There's never been anything else like it on TV.
Who in Babylon 5 does that not describe? Kosh, maybe.
After all the nice things you said about Londo and G'Kar you call the end of their arc a waste of time??
I wouldn't have missed it for the world even though what happened to Londo made me sad.Lots of people don't care for the off-format episodes like 'Day of the Dead' and 'The Corps is Mother (etc)" but I love them.
Jan
I wonder what Spoo tastes like.
After all the nice things you said about Londo and G'Kar you call the end of their arc a waste of time??
Lots of people don't care for the off-format episodes like 'Day of the Dead' and 'The Corps is Mother (etc)" but I love them.
Jan
What Jan said. There is much i do not care for in S5, but there is much I consider essential, enough that to dismiss it deprives you of some vital aspects to the overall story
After all the nice things you said about Londo and G'Kar you call the end of their arc a waste of time??
Lots of people don't care for the off-format episodes like 'Day of the Dead' and 'The Corps is Mother (etc)" but I love them.
Jan
Yes, I do. Because the 5th season was nothing but an excuse to get the various races fighting each other for no obvious tangible reason whatsoever. It was absolutely horrible. The Alliance was a complete waste of time, was handled poorly from the get-go, and all we ever got in the 5th season was people fighting each other and people using each other, and it was for silly piddly stuff, not something truly unifying in scope, like the Shadow War was. In the 5th season, I found myself actually rooting for Bester, and WANTING him to come in with guns blazing and clean out the station. That's how much I hated the way things were going.
And WTF was JMS thinking... having Sheridan become President, and then literally less than a minute after that, f-ing Delenn gets up there, and has a fleet of Whitestars fly overhead of EarthDome? Really? Yeah, that will REALLY help sway the people that Clark's propaganda was wrong.
Delenn once again should have just stayed the f--k home, and stayed out of anything Earth.And WTF was JMS thinking... having Sheridan become President, and then literally less than a minute after that, f-ing Delenn gets up there, and has a fleet of Whitestars fly overhead of EarthDome? Really? Yeah, that will REALLY help sway the people that Clark's propaganda was wrong.
That was season 4, not season 5.
And WTF was JMS thinking... having Sheridan become President, and then literally less than a minute after that, f-ing Delenn gets up there, and has a fleet of Whitestars fly overhead of EarthDome? Really? Yeah, that will REALLY help sway the people that Clark's propaganda was wrong.
That was season 4, not season 5.
It was still a dumb move having to do with the Minbari.
Spam. It tastes like space Spam.
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