Fate of the assimilated Enterprise -E crew

[Timo]

But why would the Queen whisper in Jean Luc's ear as to where the attacking cube's weak spot was?

1) To allow Picard to destroy the Cube and thus be lured into the past, where he was needed to kickstart Cochrane's stalled warp program and found the Federation? An antagonist who can travel in time at will when you cannot will inevitably triumph over you, so what we witnessed must have been a Borg victory, down to every detail.

2) Maybe she didn't, and Picard got that out of the complex feed whose actual purpose was different.

I think the whispering voices that Picard kept hearing were from Borg equipment that Crusher couldn't remove

Since Crusher originally insisted she got everything out, the equipment might well have been recently assembled by the nanites Crusher didn't get out because she didn't even know they were there.

That, or then the macroscopic equipment was stealthy enough to confuse Crusher. But nanites being stealthy is a bit easier to accept...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[arch101]

One of the reasons I always wished they still had the Enterprise D in FC was because I thought the Borg would be much more terrifying assimilating children and civilians as well as Starfleet people.

 

[Lance]

They're undead, Jim.

 

[ConRefit79]

One of the reasons I always wished they still had the Enterprise D in FC was because I thought the Borg would be much more terrifying assimilating children and civilians as well as Starfleet people.

I can't see Picard killing children. Even if they are Borg. But my guess is the Borg would ignore children until they completed their mission. Children usually need to go into maturation chambers. They wouldn't want to waste time creating them with more important tasks at hand.

But you're right that would've take the film to a darker place.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In a situation like ST:FC, we saw that the Borg will ignore those who are not a threat. So in normal circumstances they would not assimilate children or civilians.

 

[Kinggodzillak]

Very interesting question, back when the film was first released I was hoping for a post-FC novel which addresses what happened to the Drones and assimilated Enterprise crew who survived the Queens death and were now disconnected from the Hive, the issue of de-borgifying the Enterprise (how long she would be in drydock, how extensive the alterations were and the dangers of screwing with Borg technology etc.) and also potentially an inquiry from the Department of Temporal Investigations.

It gets a mention at the start of the Section 31 novel Rogue (near enough to the start that you should be able to see it in the preview on Amazon).

 

[MikeS]

People have mentioned Picard stating that his crew were "beyond saving". I don't think he was speaking literally - of course they can be physically rehabilitated, we've seen it several times. I think it is reflective of his state of mind. Perhaps he feels that he was never truly saved, perhaps he feels he would have been better left for dead, perhaps he feels he's doing his crew a favour by euthanising them. It was quite a constant in the movie - that Picard's judgement was impaired by his own history.

 

[MikeS]

I am sick of typing out lengthy, well thought out responses to be greeted with "We are doing some backups" and losing the lot

 

[MikeS]

I'll try again - more succinctly and remembering the copy function.

- People have mentioned Picard's insistence that nothing could be done to save his (assimilated) crew.
- I don't think he's talking literally - we have seen other occasions where they clearly can be physically saved.
- I think he believes he was never truly mentally saved and that he is doing his crew a favour by euthanising them.
- Picard is psychologically impaired - it is a constant theme throughout the movie until his epiphany.
- We also do not know what, if any, kind of psychological warfare the Queen is pumping into his mind.
- The better course of action here would have been for Crusher to relieve Picard and have Riker deal with the situation.
- But IRL he was to busy earning the moniker Two Takes Frakes to be lead actor.

 

[Lance]

The better course of action here would have been for Crusher to relieve Picard and have Riker deal with the situation.

You know, this is an interesting point. I'd like to think TV Series Crusher would've relieved him without hesitation. But in the movie, Crusher's just like, ''When the captain makes up his mind....'' Yeah, but you've the authority to remove him if it looks like his judgement is impaired, and it's pretty clear after the exchange/argument with Worf that Picard has completely flipped his lid by that stage. At the very least she should've had a word with him, and it makes Bev look very foolish that it's Lily who snaps the captain out of it.

 

[Timo]

With Riker down on the planet, though, who's to take command from Picard? Worf was already browbeaten into submission, and surely Crusher can't have the authority to unilaterally declare herself the empress of the ship?

One of the reasons I always wished they still had the Enterprise D in FC was because I thought the Borg would be much more terrifying assimilating children and civilians as well as Starfleet people.

One wonders why the E-E wouldn't have civilians aboard. It isn't something specific to certain classes of ships, after all - we see ships as dissimilar as the E-D and the Saratoga sporting civilians. And Picard's mission was to spend a year in space apparently mostly studying space dust, combining minimum risk with maximum need for familial comfort.

Keeping the civilians out of the harm's way (and thus off camera!) should be simple enough, considering the zombie gait of the intruders. And even if retreating to the upper decks of the saucer, the civilians wouldn't be allowed on the bridge...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Perhaps the reason Picard said the assimilated crew couldn't be saved is that on the Enterprise, with the entire ship under direct Borg assault, they didn't have the medical resources to do so.

After BOBW II, Picard could be de-Borgified, because they weren't under Borg attack and in fact had a fully equipped sickbay at their disposal. Once the cube was destroyed, Crusher and her staff could take as much time as they wanted to save Picard. But in FC, the whole ship was under siege, and by the time it was all over they had taken a lot of damage, so they couldn't put forth the effort that they did with Picard.

 

[T'Girl]

and surely Crusher can't have the authority to unilaterally declare herself the empress of the ship?

Crusher would have the authority to relieve Picard for medical reasons, but could she do the same for psychological reasons? That might require Troi's assessment and Troi was off the ship.

One wonders why the E-E wouldn't have civilians aboard.

With the lack of evidence one way or the other, my assumption is that there were families aboard the E-E. When the Defiant first arrived at DS9, Sisko specifically mentioned the lack of families as if this were non-standard for Starfleet vessels.

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Perhaps the reason Picard said the assimilated crew couldn't be saved is that on the Enterprise, with the entire ship under direct Borg assault ...

My take is Picard was say this, not because it was true, but in order to make it easier for the crew to shoot their associates and friends.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

My take is Picard was say this, not because it was true, but in order to make it easier for the crew to shoot their associates and friends.

Given the war situation they were under, I guess I can understand why he would say that. They didn't have time to try and save the assimilated crew. And if they didn't fight back strongly and quickly enough, more people would be assimilated.

 

[Lance]

One of the reasons I always wished they still had the Enterprise D in FC was because I thought the Borg would be much more terrifying assimilating children and civilians as well as Starfleet people.

I've actually thought the same thing, but for the related reason that I reckon it would've been more of an emotional kick-in-the-gut for the audience to see 1701-D being assimilated on the inside (Borg alcoves down the corridors, etc) than it was to watch it happen to some new ship that we've never seen before this movie. Because of our 7+ year emotional connection to the Galaxy Class and those particular interior sets, I reckon it would've felt even more like an invasion/perversion to see them all getting 'Borgified'.

One wonders why the E-E wouldn't have civilians aboard.

With the lack of evidence one way or the other, my assumption is that there were families aboard the E-E. When the Defiant first arrived at DS9, Sisko specifically mentioned the lack of families as if this were non-standard for Starfleet vessels.

I'd kind of like to believe that, but then we got USS Voyager not having families aboard as well (much was made of Naomi Wildman and the Borg kids being the only children on the ship, and Janeway et al treated their presence as if it was something of a novelty.) The real-life explanation was that the writers decided to retcon them away -- I vividly recall Ron Moore himself declaring that their intention was that there be no civilians on Enterprise-E.

But then again, canonically the Intrepid Class is supposed to be roughly the same kind of size as the old Constitutions were in TOS, so it's possible that smaller ships don't carry families, or that Voyager's mission to the Badlands was only supposed to be a short mission anyway so there was no need given for civilians to be aboard and she could've been operating on a 'skeleton crew' of personnel. But then, the former is unlikely because the even-smaller Saratoga in DS9 clearly had Sisko's family on board at least...

 

[ConRefit79]

I've actually thought the same thing, but for the related reason that I reckon it would've been more of an emotional kick-in-the-gut for the audience to see 1701-D being assimilated on the inside (Borg alcoves down the corridors, etc) than it was to watch it happen to some new ship that we've never seen before this movie. Because of our 7+ year emotional connection to the Galaxy Class and those particular interior sets, I reckon it would've felt even more like an invasion/perversion to see them all getting 'Borgified'.

That might have been a more fitting end to her than a Klingon BOP causing a core breach and Troi crashing landing the saucer.

 

[USS KG5]

Not too mention Data's Emotion Chip being a lot larger than it was in the series, something that RedLetter Media/Mr. Plinkett when they slam, er...'review' First Contact.

That's when they slam "Generations". Sadly, these days they slam everything - it just wouldn't work for them to gush, which is fair enough, but their Force Awakens review was just not very good at all. They have used up their shelf life.

I chalk it up to the writers not being savvy on continuity.

Well, I always rationalised it as Geordi and Data having to build it into a larger chip to bypass and repair the damage caused when Data shot Lore.

 

[Timo]

Perhaps the reason Picard said the assimilated crew couldn't be saved is that on the Enterprise, with the entire ship under direct Borg assault, they didn't have the medical resources to do so.

Or then Picard had previously been in the belief that Locutus was dead and buried, and the revelation in this movie that the beast still lived within him was so crushing that he thought there was no hope for anybody.

Crusher would have the authority to relieve Picard for medical reasons, but could she do the same for psychological reasons? That might require Troi's assessment and Troi was off the ship.

It takes quite a bit of special effort and expertise, it seems - McCoy was a specialist in space psychology, as per "Court Martial", yet even he was unable to relieve Matt Decker on medical grounds based on his psychological observations alone. The CO being obviously shell-shocked and giving suicidal orders is clearly not sufficient reason for relieving him, not without a battery of tests at Sickbay.

...And Crusher couldn't drag Picard to Sickbay, as we saw the facility assimilated earlier on.

My take is Picard was say this, not because it was true, but in order to make it easier for the crew to shoot their associates and friends.

Sounds very plausible. Of course, Picard just said "don't hesitate to fire", not "do kill them". For all we know, the guns were on stun (as is standard for the UFP at war - see "Errand of Mercy"...), and there could have been helpful surgery later...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MikeS]

I've actually thought the same thing, but for the related reason that I reckon it would've been more of an emotional kick-in-the-gut for the audience to see 1701-D being assimilated on the inside (Borg alcoves down the corridors, etc) than it was to watch it happen to some new ship that we've never seen before this movie. Because of our 7+ year emotional connection to the Galaxy Class and those particular interior sets, I reckon it would've felt even more like an invasion/perversion to see them all getting 'Borgified'.

That would have made the movie even better! A ship we're attached to going through all of that! And how about showing us a couple of assimilated extra's - Ogawa, Gomez, Barclay etc. That would have really ratcheted up the tension!

 

[USS KG5]

I vividly recall Ron Moore himself declaring that their intention was that there be no civilians on Enterprise-E.

Indeed he thought it was daft. In universe of course, Starfleet probably got a short sharp shock from losing the Yamato, then the civilian casualties at wolf 359, and banned civilians as space was just getting too dangerous again to have them aboard.

Plus - the ships seem to keep getting generally faster, even from DS9 (supposedly a relatively distant outpost) Sisko and Jake pop home to see dad on Earth a few times, so the need isn't there.