Obviously we hung with different theater crowds, because both times I saw it there was loud applause when Rey force-swiped Luke's lightsaber before Kylo Ben could get it.
Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion (HERE THERE BE SPOILERS)
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Obviously we hung with different theater crowds, because both times I saw it there was loud applause when Rey force-swiped Luke's lightsaber before Kylo Ben could get it.
True lets check this movie
*Cute little danger-magnet robot rolling around everywhere with the Key To The Plot housed in its cute little memory banks? Check.
*Daring escape from a desolate desert planet in a hella fast spaceship that everybody thinks is a hunk of junk? Check.
*Menacing dude with a red lightsaber and hella force powers and a scary-looking mask that gives him a robot voice? Jesus, yes.
*Scuzzy space-bar populated by a menagerie of funny-looking aliens? Seriously?
*A squadron of rebellious X-wings getting picked off one by one by TIE fighters while attempting to blow up a planet-sized weapon that is coming ever closer to destroying the verdant planet that houses their base of operations? seriously?
*A young hero watching helplessly as a cherished mentor dies in front of them at the hands of the menacing black-clad dude?
*Anakin/Luke's lightsaber being passed on to someone else.
This film is to A New Hope what Into Darkness is for Star Trek. A remake/reimagined film that lacked the heart,charm and originality the original film has.
In the beginning? No, of course not. We didn't know them, yet.
By the end! Definitely.
Peope were cheering for them when Finn picked up the lightsaber and got in a hit against Kylo and they gasped when he badly lost.
They cheered when Poe blew the starkiller to kingdom come
They cheered when Rey snatched the lightsaber from under Kylo's nose, when she tutned the mind probe on him, when she made the guard untie her, open the door and drop his weapon. When she completely owned Kylo in the fight and when she saved Finn from the Rathtars.
Nostalgia is beautiful.
But it doesn't mean people actually loved the old cast appearing more than the new cast being introduced. They were watching the new cast for the first time so cheering would've made no sense whereas the old cast is like old friends.
It still doesn't mean that people didn't end up loving the Rey, Finn and Poe. Your reasoning isn't sound.
People cheered because they were happy to see old friends. But they loved the film because it's a new story and many fell in love with new characters.
Its not these points, it is how you get to them and what they mean that matters. It is like things seem the same, but really are not in detail.
The more I think back on the film, the more I appreciate Han's role and performance. He really does carry the film much of the way with his wit, humor, and ultimate sacrifice.
But he didn't do it alone. Finn & Poe were great during their jailbreak. Finn & Rey were great during their escape from Jakku (that "I can do this" Falcon chase was brilliant). And Rey's wide-eyed first steps into a much larger world ("I never imagined there was so much green in the galaxy"), coupled with her reluctance, fear, and growing abilities made her the most compelling character of the film for me. (Though, admittedly, outside of my amusement at his tantrums, Ren didn't do much for me.)
In short, the film nicely balanced old a new characters ... and by the end, I was cheering just as much for the new as the old.
But he didn't do it alone. Finn & Poe were great during their jailbreak. Finn & Rey were great during their escape from Jakku (that "I can do this" Falcon chase was brilliant). And Rey's wide-eyed first steps into a much larger world ("I never imagined there was so much green in the galaxy"), coupled with her reluctance, fear, and growing abilities made her the most compelling character of the film for me. (Though, admittedly, outside of my amusement at his tantrums, Ren didn't do much for me.)
In short, the film nicely balanced old a new characters ... and by the end, I was cheering just as much for the new as the old.
I feel a lot of the praise this movie is getting is down to the nostalgia of seeing our favourite characters reunited in a Star Wars movie. And therefore people aren't judging the movie on its weak and rehashed story/plot or characterisation of its new cast.
If you remove Leia, Han and Chewie and use new characters for their parts, so remove those ties and nostalgia to the original trilogy, i think a lot of reviews and feeling towards this film would shift more negatively.
Who knows i felt the same about Star Trek Nemesis when i saw it in the cinema i had a wtf was that feeling. I didn't hate the movie but felt no connection to it but as time has gone on i have grown to appreciate Nemesis and maybe i'll feel the same way towards this NU-Star Wars film in time
Yes, because one of the movie's stated goals was to continue their story. That doesn't mean it would automatically suck without them. Rey and Finn are great characters on their own, and while I'm not big on Poe Dameron I don't hate him either. There's still a decent film here. Again, the returning characters are icing on the cake.
I feel like you haven't been reading many people's opinions at all considering most people who love the movie are enthusiastic about the new cast...
Nostalgia definitely plays a role in how people are receiving this film, especially fans of the OT. The old characters gave it weight, gravitas, and connective tissue. And they helped bolster and endorse some of the new characters, no doubt about that. For me some of the best scenes-and my favorite scene-with Han/Leia right before they leave for Starkiller Base had the most emotional resonance. But that being said, I think one of the strong points for TFA was that it did establish a new, likeable core of actors/characters to carry the franchise forward.
I haven't warmed to them yet to be honest, but I see they have chemistry (Finn and Rey, and Finn and Poe; BB-8 and probably every one). I am not in the camp that feels that TFA is Star Wars, not yet at least. But I still thought the new hero characters, including BB-8 were well rendered. Compared to the prequels, which I think-so far-attempted to tell a grander, different story-TFA established more likeable new characters, characters with a pulse that the prequels failed to do in TPM.
I do have problems with some characterization and with the story in particular. It was too much recycling. I also thought the villains were weak. But that being said we all aren't going to agree on those things and some people don't care. That might not be the most important thing for them even if they did think those things are lackluster. For whatever reasons TFA hit the right buttons for them.
I wonder why Jurassic Park did so well when it didn't really do anything for me. Well made film, likeable enough cast (though not as likeable as TFA) while other movies got skewered (Terminator Genisys for example, which wasn't nearly as horrible as it seemed a lot of people made it out to be; though it did have its flaws).
I feel like you haven't been reading many people's opinions at all considering most people who love the movie are enthusiastic about the new cast...
What can i say i didn't like ST. In To Darkness as it used to many story/plot elements and reimagined TWOK but reviews are mainly positive, and this Star Wars film has reused to many Plot/story elements from ANH. I just felt i had seen this movie before but with different faces and characters with more reason to do what they did then Rey,Finn and Kylo.
It feels we jumped a movie ahead in the introduction to these characters and their motives explaining why Finn feels the way he does and why/how he overcomes years of stormtrooper training and conditioning, Why Rey is so tied to that desert planet, is she alone or looking after someone? as she said she's been away to long but that was forgotten at the end of the film. Why get so attached to a droid she just met and didn't have any use for other than trade for food rations. And why,how Kylo turn into the bad guy, what prompted him. how did Snoke get his claws into him, how did he fall out with his family and turn to the dark side.
In part this is supposed to be a sequel but in so many aspects it can also be considered a remake of ANH
Not trying to offend or criticise you or tarring you with this brush but todays generation of movie goers some to be far more entertained by big flashy explosions than real story and character development. Same can be said for music as well. Lyrics and emotion in a song these days are replaced by loud drum and bass booming out.
I really would like to see the prequels again (In fact the whole story) to see if they are really so bad. I recently listened to a series of podcasts explaining why they might not be so bad, and it's been a while since I've seen them anyway.
It's been a few days and thinking about it some more, I still really liked it. If I were to rank the films now, it would probably go something like this:
Return of the Jedi (It was the first one I ever saw and I just love the scenes between Luke and the Emporer)
Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
Phantom Menace (The only things I remember about this movie were the long pod races and Jar Jar)
It's been a few days and thinking about it some more, I still really liked it. If I were to rank the films now, it would probably go something like this:
Return of the Jedi (It was the first one I ever saw and I just love the scenes between Luke and the Emporer)
Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
Phantom Menace (The only things I remember about this movie were the long pod races and Jar Jar)
OK, I'm struggling with this :
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/markcassidycbm/news/?a=129176
Option one is 'We wrote it both ways depending on what the actor would agree to.'
Or
Option two is 'We blew the character in an attempt to build up a lame villain'.
Generations was crap not because Kirk dies, but because it was a bad film and badly done. TFA is pretty good only if you accept that Ford insisted and it was a part of the deal necessary to get him back.
If it wasn't, it was a dire decision which robs everyone of a proper 'last hurah' for the main cast and reduces the movie from 'pretty good' to 'you're effing kidding ?'
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/markcassidycbm/news/?a=129176
Option one is 'We wrote it both ways depending on what the actor would agree to.'
Or
Option two is 'We blew the character in an attempt to build up a lame villain'.
Generations was crap not because Kirk dies, but because it was a bad film and badly done. TFA is pretty good only if you accept that Ford insisted and it was a part of the deal necessary to get him back.
If it wasn't, it was a dire decision which robs everyone of a proper 'last hurah' for the main cast and reduces the movie from 'pretty good' to 'you're effing kidding ?'
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I like a lot about the prequels. I appreciate ambition, even if it ends up failing in execution. The world building was interesting, the scores were great, and sometimes the cast got some good character moments. They also worked really well for their target audience, and at the time they were fairly unique. For all the shit we give Lucas for relying too much in computers, he did experiment and pioneered a lot of new technology - it's just it took others to perfect it.
Also, they had a double-ended lightsaber duel. The world is a better place for its existence.
They're still badly flawed. They amplified nearly all the flaws in the OT and lacked a lot of its strengths. One of those was engaging characters, that were interesting for reasons other than their 'concept'. I found FA had that. They could have cut Leia and Han completely, and I still would have had a great time watching Rey, Finn and BB8 having adventures. Poe was the only one I thought was a little underdeveloped (understandably), but he was at least likeable and charismatic.
IMO
You made a mention of the scores and I still think the score used between the fight of Darth Maul and Qui Gon and Obi Wan is one of the best scores of the franchise. In fact, if there was one thing I loved about TPM, it's score was incredible.
Uh, no. "Everyone" emphatically didn't need a "proper last hurrah" for the main cast, whatever that means -- we need good stories. Their final choice for TFA was far better than a contrived reunion with Leia IMO; confronting a guy as unstable as Kylo Ren and trying to convert him should not come without fatal consequence. (And really if all you're getting from Solo's last moments are "blowing the character in an attempt to build up a lame villain" then I guess you're not seeing the same movie most people are. I completely agree with Abrams' take on that scene, it's heart-wrenching.)
doylem1 said:
Well, obviously not everyone shares your distaste for STID, but if you'd like the perspective of someone who isn't a fan of that movie but still likes TFA, here's mine: STID's sin for me wasn't reusing and reimagining elements from TWOK, but doing so while being an illogical mess that was manifestly less intelligent and interesting than the movie whose content it was raiding. Even that didn't detract from it for many (as is obvious from the fact that it was still reasonably popular and profitable), but at any rate TFA faces no such problem at all: it's openly celebrating ANH but doing so while manifestly matching (and in some ways possibly exceeding, depending on your mileage) the competence of the original. Hence, many fewer people care at all about the "it's a retread" complaint; I'm certainly not among them.
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I finally saw the movie this evening and honestly wasn't impressed. It seemed to hit a lot of the right notes but felt very much like a JJ Abrams production which isn't a compliment. Kylo Ren and the "Supreme Leader" failed to leave a memorable impression and the new superweapon seemed like a cheap plot point. Kylo Ren being lame made Han's death seem pointless.
I enjoyed it well enough, especially the parts with Han, Chewbacca, and Leia. I liked that Admiral Ackbar from ROTJ appeared. It just doesn't live up to the quality of Episodes III-VI.
I enjoyed it well enough, especially the parts with Han, Chewbacca, and Leia. I liked that Admiral Ackbar from ROTJ appeared. It just doesn't live up to the quality of Episodes III-VI.
I'm going to echo the sentiment that I really liked the new characters. I'm also going to go a step further and say that I think I liked them more than the old ones.
But I understand the gist of the argument. They were trying to make a movie that appeals to many rather than doing what Lucas did, which was whatever the fuck he wanted. I admire that, even if I think he made a lot of mistakes.
But I understand the gist of the argument. They were trying to make a movie that appeals to many rather than doing what Lucas did, which was whatever the fuck he wanted. I admire that, even if I think he made a lot of mistakes.
