Ethical Cannibalism?

[Triskelion]

Eating any form of cloned meat would be ethical, human or not, since nobody is harmed-- although there would likely be some debate about cell ownership. In fact, it will probably become the norm, eventually (well, not human, but typical food animals).

The repugnance toward cannibalism is genetic, though, and runs as deep as any other survival instinct, so it probably won't ever go mainstream. Undoubtedly there will be a fetish underground for it, though-- since there already is.

I like your thinking, RJD&B, but it occurs to me that the word "nobody" in the first sentence of your Post is key, and would need to be settled. Would not a clone have an identity and an existence of its (?) own?

If this is a serious thread...

Oh, gods, no. Not interested in consuming other humans, cloned or otherwise. The very notion makes me ill. How could you ask such a thing?!

If this is a joke thread...

If, after the bombs fell, and I happened to be one of the "lucky" few surviving on the remnants of our once-great civilization in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, and I have run out of Sugar Bombs and Fancy Lads Snack Cakes, and someone offers me a meal of strange meat, well... who am I to question its provenance? Beats the hell out of bloatfly.

I think the brand, "Fancy Lad" could be used by the inevitable Post-Apocalyptic Street Car Vendors for high-end, Kobe-like "meat".

Fancy Lad Jerky
Fancy Lad Prime Cuts
Fancy Lad Meat Soup with Rich Broth

This logic, while good (and erudite), is incomplete.


Math can be verified and replicated (though still contingent on symbology). Ethics - you are attempting to verify via its antithesis based on your personal definition of "unethicalness", which you admit is variable. How shall we agree to "weigh" the ethical concerns? And here is where your opinion is presented as self-evident fact - but actually fails the test of verifiability. Now what? Social pressure and imposed values? Fine, but let's call it what it is.... Value Imposition with good intentions. If an argument is sound, then it needn't rely on misrepresentation of opinion as fact. It defeats its own purpose. I'm not saying it is dishonest, I am saying it is biased, which is worse than ignorance, since it is complacent with misinterpretation as irrefutable scientific fact, ipso facto, Q.E.D.

It is supremely difficult weighing outside one's own value system, but that's exactly what science demands in thought, if not in deed. If an argument is based on opinion and not fact - now how shall it be weighed? Probably not with the same bias from everyone.

(Nor does this mean we can ignore the risks or avoid the consequences of Scientific Abandon).

My ethics may seem as irrefutable facts to me - but they are not facts, and others are not ignorant for weighing them accordingly - by their own merits, not a presumed universal standard.

I am reading with interest your conversation with Triumphant, Icthulhu, and as I am a visual creature, I like to try to put things within a visual context. Please correct me, either of you, but if I were to draw a Venn Diagram of your discussion here, would I be correct in having Two Universes of "Everything", and subsets of "Everything"? My meaning being, it sounds as if "all" is included in what you are both saying. All versions of ethics and "humanity", all numbers, all truths, and falsehoods. I am finding it all very interesting, indeed!

That depends entirely on how it tastes, my good man.

Can we splice in some cow genes with my own? I might make a great steak of sorts.

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa!!! Wouldn't that be Retrograde Bestiality? Post-Mortem Co-Mingling? BovineSapien Test Tube...something???

Naughty and Nice, all around a stellar post!

I admit, I'm a little confused by how you are delineating your sets. If I could add some clarity from my POV, I'd say that there are people in the world who do not share similar western values, and have no problem ignoring them completely, let alone discarding them when inconvenient.

Take AI - which is currently in the news thanks to Elon Musk and others attempting to fund ethical, beneficial AI research for its own sake. But could they protect their advancements? Control them? There's a lot to risk on that assumption.

We can bend over backward limiting the development of AI abuse - but whole nations will pull out all the stops and put everybody at risk. Hubris is also an issue for some more than others.

We've got to learn to look WAY beyond our own shores to see the possible permutations and implications of any robust technology, and what it may mean for humanity - and whether we as a species place survival at any cost above the very emotional and logical sapience that distinguishes us from the lower orders. There is no assurance we have to understand, acknowledge nor potentiate that sentience.


Without trying to contain "all of everything for all time", I'm just allowing for a gamut of applications above and beyond the law or ethics of any particular nation - where corporations dwell even now. And even if you can prove something logically, plenty of people will willfully ignore the logic, the law, the moral implication, the risk, the repugnance, and the wholesale death of billions.

The tyrannical objectification and invalidation of the individual could very well lead to an inevitable self-destruction of the human species - a very plausible outcome and one supported by all available research into astronomy. (I'm referring here to the Fermi Paradox).

There is NO evidence that intelligent civilization survives itself. In the universe.

Have a nice day!

EDIT: (Or if there is evidence, being suppressed by military or government authority, then the very knowledge of this on a public scale puts our own tenuous order at risk. IIRC since the Condon Report, the US government HAS a policy of suppression of knowledge of alien civilization in place - in order to keep things chilled out and not risk either mass panic or chaos, or the doubting of local yokel authority. But I digress).

 

[HIjol]

Presumably the balance tips when the collection of cloned organs enters the realm of being self sustaining, has a fully developed nervous system, or tries to kill and replace you.

Or until the head of a high born family is dissatisfied with the marital options for their great-great-grandchild and heir, and "wakes up" one of the clones to have their grandkid marry it. (Not my idea - it's how a war began on Krypton in one of those mini-series that showed Krypton before its destruction, back in the late 80s.)

Well, I made an assumption here that just a big hunk of meat is being cloned, not that they are cloning an animal or person and then slaughtering it.

You have my intended meaning in the OP correct - no need to grow a whole organism.

@HIjol: No need to diagram my conversation with Icthulhu. His original post in this thread consisted of what sounded to me like deep DEEP naval gazing and a desire to show off vocabulary, and so despite my desire to just say TL;DR, instead I studied it for a moment and formulated something that I thought might half-way sound like an "intelligent" response to it. Icthulhu then called that "erudite" , which told me all I needed to know. I won't be following up on that part of our conversation here.

Ok, Triumphant, I was willing to allow your logical argument-from-authority fallacy the benefit of the doubt, and even demonstrate my respect for your thoughtful perspective; but you've compounded it with an ad hominem fallacy/straw man caricature of your counterpart.

My argument was never intended as personal, and if I gave that impression, I apologize. Nor should you be embarrassed by my judgment, because as I said, I think your argument is a good one, just not fully mature, to be frank. (And I know you appreciate frank speech).

In my mind, you or anyone else is fully free to ignore the benefit of my experience to your heart's content. Best to you. But yeah, discriminating people as "worthy" is an argument from Authority - a logical fallacy - and a capitulation - regardless of anything the other guy says or how he says it.

It was my mistake, I thought you were here for a discussion, not a demonstration of a cute idea. Mea culpa.

Well then, that's all good! I say we adjourn to Sapiens (the one down by the wharf) for some prime Rib-Eye, Rump and Butt Steaks!

 

[HIjol]

Eating any form of cloned meat would be ethical, human or not, since nobody is harmed-- although there would likely be some debate about cell ownership. In fact, it will probably become the norm, eventually (well, not human, but typical food animals).

The repugnance toward cannibalism is genetic, though, and runs as deep as any other survival instinct, so it probably won't ever go mainstream. Undoubtedly there will be a fetish underground for it, though-- since there already is.

I like your thinking, RJD&B, but it occurs to me that the word "nobody" in the first sentence of your Post is key, and would need to be settled. Would not a clone have an identity and an existence of its (?) own?



I think the brand, "Fancy Lad" could be used by the inevitable Post-Apocalyptic Street Car Vendors for high-end, Kobe-like "meat".

Fancy Lad Jerky
Fancy Lad Prime Cuts
Fancy Lad Meat Soup with Rich Broth




I am reading with interest your conversation with Triumphant, Icthulhu, and as I am a visual creature, I like to try to put things within a visual context. Please correct me, either of you, but if I were to draw a Venn Diagram of your discussion here, would I be correct in having Two Universes of "Everything", and subsets of "Everything"? My meaning being, it sounds as if "all" is included in what you are both saying. All versions of ethics and "humanity", all numbers, all truths, and falsehoods. I am finding it all very interesting, indeed!

That depends entirely on how it tastes, my good man.

Can we splice in some cow genes with my own? I might make a great steak of sorts.

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa!!! Wouldn't that be Retrograde Bestiality? Post-Mortem Co-Mingling? BovineSapien Test Tube...something???

Naughty and Nice, all around a stellar post!

I admit, I'm a little confused by how you are delineating your sets. If I could add some clarity from my POV, I'd say that there are people in the world who do not share similar western values, and have no problem ignoring them completely, let alone discarding them when inconvenient.

Take AI - which is currently in the news thanks to Elon Musk and others attempting to fund ethical, beneficial AI research for its own sake. But could they protect their advancements? Control them? There's a lot to risk on that assumption.

We can bend over backward limiting the development of AI abuse - but whole nations will pull out all the stops and put everybody at risk. Hubris is also an issue for some more than others.

We've got to learn to look WAY beyond our own shores to see the possible permutations and implications of any robust technology, and what it may mean for humanity - and whether we as a species place survival at any cost above the very emotional and logical sapience that distinguishes us from the lower orders. There is no assurance we have to understand, acknowledge nor potentiate that sentience.


Without trying to contain "all of everything for all time", I'm just allowing for a gamut of applications above and beyond the law or ethics of any particular nation - where corporations dwell even now. And even if you can prove something logically, plenty of people will willfully ignore the logic, the law, the moral implication, the risk, the repugnance, and the wholesale death of billions.

The tyrannical objectification and invalidation of the individual could very well lead to an inevitable self-destruction of the human species - a very plausible outcome and one supported by all available research into astronomy. (I'm referring here to the Fermi Paradox).

There is NO evidence that intelligent civilization survives itself. In the universe.

Have a nice day!

EDIT: (Or if there is evidence, being suppressed by military or government authority, then the very knowledge of this on a public scale puts our own tenuous order at risk. IIRC since the Condor Report, the US government HAS a policy of suppression of knowledge of alien civilization in place - in order to keep things chilled out and not risk either mass panic or chaos, or the doubting of local yokel authority. But I digress).

Icthulhu,

Thank you for your appreciative words regarding my
Post, and I find much to agree with in yours. Clearly, there are those that do not agree with Western views, and teaching here in the Middle East has taught me that. This Blue Collar-Raised Chicago Boy is far from home!

Being an admirer and aficionado of William Gibson, I think that if True AI ever enters our society, we would have reason to fear, and the AI would have the Potential to exceed our control, and It's/His/Her advancement would give us pause and deliver fundamental challenges. Game Changer, if I may.

Hubris and Human, after all, do start with the same linear, symmetry-separated-by-short-connector letter; "H".

The substance of your, "Without trying to contain..." paragraph, above, evokes a similar Venn in my minds eye, to the one I envisioned with you and Triumphant, but your clarifying changes the subsets for me!

I must take issue with your final statement, though it pains me to the core to do so. Combined with reading your interesting link to the Fermi Paradox, though I wish down to my Mitochondria that We Are Not Alone, I cannot feature such a secret being kept by our, or any Government.

I Want To Be Wrong

I Want To Believe

Plus, don't even get me started on Dryson Spheres!

 

[HIjol]

Presumably the balance tips when the collection of cloned organs enters the realm of being self sustaining, has a fully developed nervous system, or tries to kill and replace you.

Or until the head of a high born family is dissatisfied with the marital options for their great-great-grandchild and heir, and "wakes up" one of the clones to have their grandkid marry it. (Not my idea - it's how a war began on Krypton in one of those mini-series that showed Krypton before its destruction, back in the late 80s.)

Well, I made an assumption here that just a big hunk of meat is being cloned, not that they are cloning an animal or person and then slaughtering it.

You have my intended meaning in the OP correct - no need to grow a whole organism.

@HIjol: No need to diagram my conversation with Icthulhu. His original post in this thread consisted of what sounded to me like deep DEEP naval gazing and a desire to show off vocabulary, and so despite my desire to just say TL;DR, instead I studied it for a moment and formulated something that I thought might half-way sound like an "intelligent" response to it. Icthulhu then called that "erudite" , which told me all I needed to know. I won't be following up on that part of our conversation here.

Ok, Triumphant, I was willing to allow your logical argument-from-authority fallacy the benefit of the doubt, and even demonstrate my respect for your thoughtful perspective; but you've compounded it with an ad hominem fallacy/straw man caricature of your counterpart.

My argument was never intended as personal, and if I gave that impression, I apologize. Nor should you be embarrassed by my judgment, because as I said, I think your argument is a good one, just not fully mature, to be frank. (And I know you appreciate frank speech).

In my mind, you or anyone else is fully free to ignore the benefit of my experience to your heart's content. Best to you. But yeah, discriminating people as "worthy" is an argument from Authority - a logical fallacy - and a capitulation - regardless of anything the other guy says or how he says it.

It was my mistake, I thought you were here for a discussion, not a demonstration of a cute idea. Mea culpa.

Well then, that's all good! I say we adjourn to Sapiens (the one down by the wharf) for some prime Rib-Eye, Rump and Butt Steaks!

 

[USS Triumphant]

Icthulhu,

Good Lord, man!

Okay, look, I'm going to give you some sincere and heartfelt advice, and then you're going to assume that I'm an ignorant fool who is trying to be a jerk, and we will both go on from there, but I'm going to give it to you anyway:

No one is impressed with your vocabulary - people want to be impressed with your thoughts. And the best way to do that for the most people is to try as hard as you can to express what you are thinking with the 200 words most commonly used in English, and to keep it as simple as possible even when you have to go beyond those to spell out what you mean.

I'm not stupid, by any means, and I DO know every word you've used, for the record. But I want to be thinking about the idea you're trying to pass along, not pausing herky-jerky to wait for my mind to pull up the meanings of uncommon words. If we were playing Scrabble or some similar activity where words themselves are the point, that would be awesome. But as it is, I'm fairly certain you've expressed opinions here - probably what could be interesting opinions if expressed much more concisely - and trying to read through your highbrow vocabulation is like trying to read a research paper in Hebrew. (I can read Hebrew - but I don't do it often enough to do it effortlessly.)

Go back to your first post, pretend I'm 9, feel free to make a snide comment about the fact that I said that, and try again.

 

[Kor]

While this would not harm anybody, and could certainly be done in a healthful way to avoid the sickness that typically results from cannibalism, somehow I have great difficulty in suppressing some deep-seated gag reflex over the idea. Perhaps I should get over myself and learn to be more open-minded.

This sounds like the kind of thing that would merit discussion over in the Future of Trek forum. Should the crew of the new series eat replicated human meat?

Kor

 

[USS Triumphant]

This sounds like the kind of thing that would merit discussion over in the Future of Trek forum. Should the crew of the new series eat replicated human meat?

Great minds think alike?

 

[HIjol]

Really?

Well.... maybe 51% that, and 49% because I wanted to weird people out talking about it. I'm Discordian, and I embrace Creative Chaos. So you put something people don't necessarily think about everyday and that runs somewhat contrary to their usual programming, like ethical cannibalism, out in front of them, and it can really alter their whole, like, flow, man. Open up new possibilities.

Or maybe I'm just screwin' with ya.

Apologies for the delay in this, Triumphant, but I meant to Post back to you yesterday, and got caught up in a cascading miasma of overflowing prose, seemingly unending in its relentless pouring out and down the Cerebral Cortex of the BBS, pausing, then...

...ok, ok, Jesus, enough!

Sorry...

What I wanted to say to you was, this Post of yours, above, really made me smile...not quite sure why on all fronts, but it really did!

 

[Triskelion]

Icthulhu,

Good Lord, man!

Okay, look, I'm going to give you some sincere and heartfelt advice, and then you're going to assume that I'm an ignorant fool who is trying to be a jerk, and we will both go on from there, but I'm going to give it to you anyway:

No one is impressed with your vocabulary - people want to be impressed with your thoughts. And the best way to do that for the most people is to try as hard as you can to express what you are thinking with the 200 words most commonly used in English, and to keep it as simple as possible even when you have to go beyond those to spell out what you mean.

I'm not stupid, by any means, and I DO know every word you've used, for the record. But I want to be thinking about the idea you're trying to pass along, not pausing herky-jerky to wait for my mind to pull up the meanings of uncommon words. If we were playing Scrabble or some similar activity where words themselves are the point, that would be awesome. But as it is, I'm fairly certain you've expressed opinions here - probably what could be interesting opinions if expressed much more concisely - and trying to read through your highbrow vocabulation is like trying to read a research paper in Hebrew. (I can read Hebrew - but I don't do it often enough to do it effortlessly.)

Go back to your first post, pretend I'm 9, feel free to make a snide comment about the fact that I said that, and try again.

Thanks, Triumphant!

Maybe you're right. I forget how much of an effort specificity can be for some folks. Everything, in your opinion, should be on a 9 year old's level - got it. (Although USA Today would disagree, they put it all on a 14 year old's level, so you might just as equally consider stepping it up a notch).

Of course, all of this is beside the point... (But that's your point, isn't it).

Anything else about me you care to include in our talk? My use of prepositions, maybe? How my cultural heritage, or race shades my views? Clearly all pertinent topics where some of us are concerned.

And now allow me to reciprocate: People are not interested in your passing views of their characters - particularly as an evasive tactic when you are losing a perceived contest in your own mind, which was never a contest in the first place. You probably vilify evangelicals - but in this case, you are one, sir. Thank you, not interested.

 

[HIjol]

Icthulhu,

Good Lord, man!

Okay, look, I'm going to give you some sincere and heartfelt advice, and then you're going to assume that I'm an ignorant fool who is trying to be a jerk, and we will both go on from there, but I'm going to give it to you anyway:

No one is impressed with your vocabulary - people want to be impressed with your thoughts. And the best way to do that for the most people is to try as hard as you can to express what you are thinking with the 200 words most commonly used in English, and to keep it as simple as possible even when you have to go beyond those to spell out what you mean.

I'm not stupid, by any means, and I DO know every word you've used, for the record. But I want to be thinking about the idea you're trying to pass along, not pausing herky-jerky to wait for my mind to pull up the meanings of uncommon words. If we were playing Scrabble or some similar activity where words themselves are the point, that would be awesome. But as it is, I'm fairly certain you've expressed opinions here - probably what could be interesting opinions if expressed much more concisely - and trying to read through your highbrow vocabulation is like trying to read a research paper in Hebrew. (I can read Hebrew - but I don't do it often enough to do it effortlessly.)

Go back to your first post, pretend I'm 9, feel free to make a snide comment about the fact that I said that, and try again.

Thanks, Triumphant!

Maybe you're right. I forget how much of an effort specificity can be for some folks. Everything, in your opinion, should be on a 9 year old's level - got it. (Although USA Today would disagree, they put it all on a 14 year old's level, so you might just as equally consider stepping it up a notch).

Of course, all of this is beside the point... (But that's your point, isn't it).

Anything else about me you care to include in our talk? My use of prepositions, maybe? How my cultural heritage, or race shades my views? Clearly all pertinent topics where some of us are concerned.

And now allow me to reciprocate: People are not interested in your passing views of their characters - particularly as an evasive tactic when you are losing a perceived contest in your own mind, which was never a contest in the first place. You probably vilify evangelicals - but in this case, you are one, sir. Thank you, not interested.

Ok...so, that's a "no". I will cancel the reservation at Sapiens.

Gluteous, the Maître D', will be disappointed!

How about Hot Dogs at Nathan's?

 

[Triskelion]

<snip>

Icthulhu,

Thank you for your appreciative words regarding my
Post, and I find much to agree with in yours. Clearly, there are those that do not agree with Western views, and teaching here in the Middle East has taught me that. This Blue Collar-Raised Chicago Boy is far from home!

Yes, Naughty and Nice, then you know all-too-well about the reality outside the world of western heritage many take for granted. I have a similar experience, having taught in China for an extended period. Stay frosty.

Being an admirer and aficionado of William Gibson, I think that if True AI ever enters our society, we would have reason to fear, and the AI would have the Potential to exceed our control, and It's/His/Her advancement would give us pause and deliver fundamental challenges. Game Changer, if I may.

Hubris and Human, after all, do start with the same linear, symmetry-separated-by-short-connector letter; "H".

He lived in Japan and I appreciate his insights into that country. (Big fan here, too)! Many's the time, here in Shanghai, I have felt I was living in his Sprawl. The crowding, the cramming of technopop culture with poverty and product worship, the seedy realities.... Don't get me started!

AI is a real transformer, but even before cognitive applications. Even now, machine learning is making huge strides in guiding corporate actions. And if a company wants to research cloning, or something, they simply shift to a more convivial (wild) legal climate in another country. And here in China, I can tell you, everything is copied and unleashed on the public. Even if it takes bribing a native in their own country. Pure, unabashed profiteering and objectification of anyone and everyone else - their own compatriots, let alone "the lesser races" outside the Wall.

I must take issue with your final statement, though it pains me to the core to do so. Combined with reading your interesting link to the Fermi Paradox, though I wish down to my Mitochondria that We Are Not Alone, I cannot feature such a secret being kept by our, or any Government.

I Want To Be Wrong

I Want To Believe

It seems unlikely life has not emerged elsewhere, but there are possibilities that allow for this. Until it is established, it cannot be inferred, scientifically.
I saw a lecture by the head of SETI, and she said they operate on the equation 1 + 1 = infinity. That is, if we can determine alien life just once, we can then generalize across the universe. (Unfortunately I think it will take more than microbes on Mars to allow for this - any life in our own Solar System may have originated from the same source that produced life on Earth). If it makes you feel better, she also intimated she would tell her daughter before calling anyone else. Still, any research into alien life would probably not be disseminated publicly without a lot of smokescreen, in the interest of security. Toil in obscurity, ET researchers....

Plus, don't even get me started on Dryson Spheres!

And now I want to get you started on Dyson Spheres! See you at Nathan's! (Or Sapiens for wings and collagen smoothies)!

 

[Avro Arrow]

A related and more probable dilemma is the question of creating clones of yourself to provide you with spare organs. Would it be ethical to bring such a clone into existence and then harvest it even if you could engineer it not to be conscious? There's no such apparent dilemma with storing stem cells for use in replicating individual organs. Presumably the balance tips when the collection of cloned organs enters the realm of being self sustaining, has a fully developed nervous system, or tries to kill and replace you.

That sounds like the kind of moral conundrum that someone should write a Star Trek episode about.

Well, I made an assumption here that just a big hunk of meat is being cloned, not that they are cloning an animal or person and then slaughtering it. Somewhat like the "meatbeast" in that Haviland Tuf story by George RR Martin.

Cloned meat generally sounds like a fine idea. Just don't buy it from Veridian Dynamics.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

A related and more probable dilemma is the question of creating clones of yourself to provide you with spare organs. Would it be ethical to bring such a clone into existence and then harvest it even if you could engineer it not to be conscious? There's no such apparent dilemma with storing stem cells for use in replicating individual organs. Presumably the balance tips when the collection of cloned organs enters the realm of being self sustaining, has a fully developed nervous system, or tries to kill and replace you.

That sounds like the kind of moral conundrum that someone should write a Star Trek episode about.

Not the only example in SF media, of course. In the real world, it has been proposed to create whole-body clones sans brain for organ harvesting. For me, that crosses a boundary of distaste. I don't think it's ethically wrong even though it is a process that destroys the potential independent life of another being. I have similar feelings about non-spontaneous abortion. Irrational, but I guess that's human. Really, I am just a deluded emergent entity -- a walking coral reef composed of roughly 30 trillion cells -- that thinks it has free will.

 

[HIjol]

Sorry, some of the functions seem to be down for maintenance...maybe next Tuesday? Hope this reply makes sense!

<snip>

Icthulhu,

Thank you for your appreciative words regarding my
Post, and I find much to agree with in yours. Clearly, there are those that do not agree with Western views, and teaching here in the Middle East has taught me that. This Blue Collar-Raised Chicago Boy is far from home!

Yes, Naughty and Nice, then you know all-too-well about the reality outside the world of western heritage many take for granted. I have a similar experience, having taught in China for an extended period. Stay frosty.

Naughty and Nice wrote:

It was a real culture shock, to be sure, but also a real personal paradigm shift for me! Not only had I spent my life in the majority before I came here, in terms of nationality and culture, but also in terms of religious, racial and gender descriptors. Even the laws are fairly different, especially Sharia. Stay Frosty, indeed, Hicks! Especially in the Land of Sand and
Heat...but they filmed MI, Star Wars, and Star Trek here, so that was cool!





He lived in Japan and I appreciate his insights into that country. (Big fan here, too)! Many's the time, here in Shanghai, I have felt I was living in his Sprawl. The crowding, the cramming of technopop culture with poverty and product worship, the seedy realities.... Don't get me started!


Naughty and Nice wrote:

I got to meet him at a book signing, when he was out making appearances for All Tomorrow's Parties. He was engaging in the quiet way he is, and got asked a lot of questions about the novels up to that time being made into movies or not. He told us that Neuromancer had been optioned so many times that no one would want to go to the time and expense of getting the rights. I got to spend about 10 minutes with him at the end...it was really something!


AI is a real transformer, but even before cognitive applications. Even now, machine learning is making huge strides in guiding corporate actions. And if a company wants to research cloning, or something, they simply shift to a more convivial (wild) legal climate in another country. And here in China, I can tell you, everything is copied and unleashed on the public. Even if it takes bribing a native in their own country. Pure, unabashed profiteering and objectification of anyone and everyone else - their own compatriots, let alone "the lesser races" outside the Wall.



Naughty and Nice wrote:


I can see what you mean about the Sprawl there. Was there and in Beijing and other cities in the geographical area for interviews. The lights and the teeming...for me it was as Gibson said:

"...was like a deranged experiment in social Darwinism, designed by a bored researcher who kept one thumb permanently on the fast-forward button. Stop hustling and you sank without a trace, but move a little too swiftly and you'd break the fragile surface tension of the black market; either way, you were gone, with nothing left of you but some vague memory in the mind of a fixture like Ratz, though heart or lungs or kidneys might survive in the service of some stranger with New Yen for the clinic tanks."

~from my Favorite, Neuromancer

I must take issue with your final statement, though it pains me to the core to do so. Combined with reading your interesting link to the Fermi Paradox, though I wish down to my Mitochondria that We Are Not Alone, I cannot feature such a secret being kept by our, or any Government.

I Want To Be Wrong

I Want To Believe

It seems unlikely life has not emerged elsewhere, but there are possibilities that allow for this. Until it is established, it cannot be inferred, scientifically.
I saw a lecture by the head of SETI, and she said they operate on the equation 1 + 1 = infinity. That is, if we can determine alien life just once, we can then generalize across the universe. (Unfortunately I think it will take more than microbes on Mars to allow for this - any life in our own Solar System may have originated from the same source that produced life on Earth). If it makes you feel better, she also intimated she would tell her daughter before calling anyone else. Still, any research into alien life would probably not be disseminated publicly without a lot of smokescreen, in the interest of security. Toil in obscurity, ET researchers....

Plus, don't even get me started on Dryson Spheres!

And now I want to get you started on Dyson Spheres! See you at Nathan's! (Or Sapiens for wings and collagen smoothies)!

Naughty and Nice wrote:


I am so there! The one by the Port, yeah? I will tell Triumphant...maybe we can share a rickshaw!




'The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." ~Neuromancer

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I'm surprised no one's asked the obvious question: what if the meat was cloned from Hitler?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I'm surprised no one's asked the obvious question: what if the meat was cloned from Hitler?

Would there be a certain distasteful.. glee.. as you bbq'd a hunk of Hitler?

 

[RoJoHen]

What's the best way to cook human meat, anyway? Humans come in all shapes and sizes, with all sorts of different body compositions.

 

[Taylirious]

Raw Dawg!

 

[USS Triumphant]

What's the best way to cook human meat, anyway? Humans come in all shapes and sizes, with all sorts of different body compositions.

Based on reports of the flavor profile from actual cannibals, I would think any preparation appropriate for pork would be in order. If left with no choice but to partake, I would take mine as pulled shredded meat with Carolina BBQ on a bun, with slaw and mustard if available. I might could forget what I was eating.

 

[HIjol]

Chicago Style!!! NO ketchup or catsup or whatever!!!

Plus, no poppyseeds...