Do you think LGBT characters will feature more prominently?

[ihno]

ihno, your argument seems pretty self defeating. You're basically saying that because Trek is terrible in this area, they shouldn't bother to try and improve. Meaning they still will be failing to keep up with the times, except now it will be because of laziness and lack of ambition.

Well, Hela, that was not what I really said.

My trust in US american TV - where a single female nipple is still a "scandal - to handle the variety sexuality in a way that I don't have to roll with my eyes is very small.
And it's true I prefer "nothing" over "bad attempt" because I think would find the last thing rather insulting.

As far as we know, no one from previous series are going to be involved in creating the new series.

I don't think it was their fault, I guess it was more of a "studio policy" thing, was it not?

It seems a bit shaky to be citing their work as the precedent for 'why this new series will not handle 'blah' well.' 'Trek' itself does not determine the type and quality of its content, writers/directors/producers do.

I have nothing else but the previously produced Star Trek to assume how future Star Trek will be. Especially if the CBS boss openly referred to that previously produced Star Trek.

That's not "shaky", that's the most normal thing in the world. And the only name we've heard to far - Kurtzman - doesn't help much either to presume that all would be great and improved.

And if I think about it: The idea to include LGBT characters to inclused soap elements is just another form of discrimination.

I think the move is to remove transgenderism as a mental disorder.
I think in Trek's future it could be something identified in a medical scan. How it was treated is the part I'm unsure of. It might be something that's corrected in infancy or even the womb with no more prejudice than a cleft pallet. But considering that people today have very different ways of living as trans, I wouldn't want to say how it would or should be handled, just that it's something our society is evolving on and I'd imagine by the 23rd and 24th centuries they'd consider our approach to the issue to be barbaric.

Why don't they just remove the gays, the bis and the lesbians too if they're just at it?

 

[borgboy]

Transgender is a different issue from being gay, though there are similar issues.
And this is why I think the trans issue in the future is difficult to discuss in Trek's utopia.
When I say correct the issue, I don't necessarily mean make the child cis.
Perhaps it would be standard issue to do advanced gender reassignment in the womb when the tricorder notes the fetus has the trans gene? They would have the capability. I'd expect they could do it so perfectly that the person would be able to grow up to give birth or father children.
But not all trans people want to transition. But who knows how people raised in a society free of transphobia would think about the issue?

 

[Trekkin]

Holy crap, borgboy. If I showed that paragraph to my Health Law professor, her head would explode from all the unfortunate implications of it.

Parents make decisions now to supposably 'correct' their infant's gender, depending on what the parents think is 'right' for the child and doctors advice. Needless to say, the issue of doing near-permanent surgery to a person who isn't old enough to consent or have input is a mess, and has had some pretty terrible consequences. Throw in that not all trans people opt for any/all surgery for various reasons, and that road doesn't seem like something you'd find in a 'better' future.

Youre suggestion is just the old 'fix the victim' trick. It won't address the real problem of having a large group of people who are prejudiced dicks.

 

[borgboy]

I freely admit that I don't know how Trek's future would treat trans people. I'm just throwing out options and I conceded the problems with that choice. Just because I pointed out the possibility of that option doesn't mean I'm advocating it.
I think the most likely answer would be that there is no transphobia and that children would be free to transition at a young age and at their own pace. Even these days you're starting to see trans kids living openly in elementary schools and taking hormone blockers before puberty, which is amazing compared to how things were not that long ago. Things like that make me optimistic that we are moving in the right direction as a society.

 

[hux]

Surely in this utopian future where all social barriers are eliminated, gender would have no meaning (such as skin colour) and people would no longer feel that they were born in the wrong gender because gender itself would be a meaningless and defunct social construct.

Of course, all you have to do is watch any show in the franchise to see that this isn't the case. Human women still have long hair and make-up (why?) and men still subscribe to a conventional male physical stereotype.

Even 24th century Harry Kim gets befuddled by the fact that Janeway is a woman AND a captain. "Thank you sir... I'm sorry, Ma'am."

Trek is just not good at this stuff.

 

[borgboy]

It is silly that gender is so rigidly expressed in Trek. Even characters like Data and Odo who should be beyond gender are very het cis male.
Of course, Data was programmed that way but there's no excuse for Odo.
And Seven who started out barely human was running around in stilleto heels and kept her hair very long.

 

[T'Girl]

^ But we saw that with Founders without Odo's upbringing that Founders do have gender identity. The Female Founder consistently displayed female characteristics. Voice and body type.

 

[USS Triumphant]

^ But we saw that with Founders without Odo's upbringing that Founders do have gender identity. The Female Founder consistently displayed female characteristics. Voice and body type.

Eh... maybe, maybe not. "She" may have chosen a consistent appearance and "gender" because "she" was dealing with solids, negotiating with them, etc. The gender "she" chose may have meant about as much to "her" as it does to me when I pick a character in a fighting game like Mortal Kombat.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Sorry for the double-post, but it JUST occurred to me that that gender may have been selected for Odo's benefit, since they knew he identified as male: to provide him with a potential love interest or mother figure (whichever would work) and get him back firmly on their side.

 

[T'Girl]

Things like that make me optimistic that we are moving in the right direction as a society.

Societal movement isn't alway in a lovely straight line, Human society is a complex mess, with all our diverse cultures. The "norms" are constantly in flux. The future won't automatically be where we are, and then forward from here.

One possible explanation for the absents of gay from TOS through the end of Voyager is that gays are basically "back in the closet."

There are no openly gay Starfleet officers owning to Starfleet having a policy of not accepting gay applicants.

 

[USS Triumphant]

There are no openly gay Starfleet officers owning to Starfleet having a policy of not accepting gay applicants.

Perhaps there *aren't* any. Perhaps they were wiped out in the Eugenics Wars, either intentionally by someone "correcting" them out, or accidentally as a side effect of something else tweaked on the same genes?

 

[T'Girl]

Surely in this utopian future where all social barriers are eliminated, gender would have no meaning (such as skin colour) ...

I do wonder, hypothetically without any of today's lingering social barriers, how long before there were no longer discrete skin colors among Humans, and we would basically have a single general skin color?

 

[USS Triumphant]

Surely in this utopian future where all social barriers are eliminated, gender would have no meaning (such as skin colour) ...

I do wonder, hypothetically without any of today's lingering social barriers, how long before there were no longer discrete skin colors among Humans, and we would basically have a single general skin color?

I don't believe that would happen. Or at least, it wouldn't have happened by the 24th century. Two reasons:

1. Like tends to like, even without prejudice, and
2. Knowing the value of biodiversity and the dangers of genetic homogeneity, it seems to me that there would be some non-racist forces encouraging maintaining diversity. The arguments of IDIC, for example.

 

[hux]

Surely in this utopian future where all social barriers are eliminated, gender would have no meaning (such as skin colour) ...

I do wonder, hypothetically without any of today's lingering social barriers, how long before there were no longer discrete skin colors among Humans, and we would basically have a single general skin color?

If not applicable to humans then certainly one would think applicable to Vulcans, no?

 

[borgboy]

Things like that make me optimistic that we are moving in the right direction as a society.

Societal movement isn't alway in a lovely straight line, Human society is a complex mess, with all our diverse cultures. The "norms" are constantly in flux. The future won't automatically be where we are, and then forward from here.

One possible explanation for the absents of gay from TOS through the end of Voyager is that gays are basically "back in the closet."

There are no openly gay Starfleet officers owning to Starfleet having a policy of not accepting gay applicants.

That would be a betrayal of everything Trek's utopian ideal of society stands for. We're told many times that humanity left behind old prejudices. We don't get any hints of those attitudes when Riker falls in love with the woman from the genderless aliens, and Riker and friends are horrified by the gender discrimination exhibited by those aliens.
When Jadzia resumed her past relationship with Dax's former wife there's no suggestion that the gay aspect is a problem to anyone.
Other than the absence of visable gay characters, which is due to prejudice in our era, there's absolutely no evidence to support the idea of homophobia in Trek's utopian era, but this ugly theory rears it's head periodically. All the more reason we need gay characters in the new series and movies.
The novels have lots of gay characters.
I'm not aware of the online game having gay characters though.

 

[borgboy]

There are no openly gay Starfleet officers owning to Starfleet having a policy of not accepting gay applicants.

Perhaps there *aren't* any. Perhaps they were wiped out in the Eugenics Wars, either intentionally by someone "correcting" them out, or accidentally as a side effect of something else tweaked on the same genes?

I don't have the impression that the Eugenics Wars effected human evolution that comrehensively. I think it was more a war between the genetically altered and unaltered, with the unaltered winning.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I don't have the impression that the Eugenics Wars effected human evolution that comrehensively. I think it was more a war between the genetically altered and unaltered, with the unaltered winning.

Traditionally in Trek, that has been the implication - but I think it is only a matter of time before some mention of genetically targeted weapons is added in, since we're on the verge of that now (if none have already been used...).

 

[borgboy]

I don't have the impression that the Eugenics Wars effected human evolution that comrehensively. I think it was more a war between the genetically altered and unaltered, with the unaltered winning.

Traditionally in Trek, that has been the implication - but I think it is only a matter of time before some mention of genetically targeted weapons is added in, since we're on the verge of that now (if none have already been used...).

I would think we'll actually have gay characters on screen before we get mention of genetic weapons. Even genetic weapons getting mentioned doesn't prove that the gay gene was wiped out.

 

[Amaris]

Surely in this utopian future where all social barriers are eliminated, gender would have no meaning (such as skin colour) ...

I do wonder, hypothetically without any of today's lingering social barriers, how long before there were no longer discrete skin colors among Humans, and we would basically have a single general skin color?

I don't know if that would happen. Having the ability to choose one's skin color would certainly render racism based on skin color pointless, but I think people would have fun with it. I won't lie, I'd probably be lavender/purple if I had the choice.

 

[suarezguy]

Things like that make me optimistic that we are moving in the right direction as a society.

Societal movement isn't alway in a lovely straight line, Human society is a complex mess, with all our diverse cultures. The "norms" are constantly in flux. The future won't automatically be where we are, and then forward from here.

One possible explanation for the absents of gay from TOS through the end of Voyager is that gays are basically "back in the closet."

There are no openly gay Starfleet officers owning to Starfleet having a policy of not accepting gay applicants.

Well Jadzia Dax openly (including discussing it with a Starfleet captain, although also a good friend) considered having/restarting a relationship with a woman without any suggestion it would negatively affect her status in Starfleet.