Spoilers Arrow - Season 4

[USS Triumphant]

Can someone remind me why Ollie's baby mama didn't want Felicity to know about his son? I think I missed the rationale last night.

I don't know, but if I had been Ollie the second time around, knowing that the kid had caused him and Felicity to break up in the original timeline, there's *no way* I would have gone to confront the baby mama without Felicity right there with me. Keep her involved from the start, she won't get mad. And that would have kept Berlin there from telling him he couldn't tell anyone. (Of course, so would him bringing a case to gain paternal rights - which could probably even be spun pretty well for his election if he played it right. Ollie is SUCH a dumbass sometimes, and this is far from the first time that's been true.)

Wrong Dove. Dawn is a woman and unrelated,

You kids and your female Doves! Git offa mah lawn! (Actually, the new female Dove showed up back shortly before I stopped collecting comics - I just didn't like it. DON was an interesting character because of whom he was and his fighting style. The female Dove seemed like someone decided that the character needed to be a chick to act like that or else it "might be kinda gay" or something, which is NOT cool.)

 

[FPAlpha]

I just hope he eventually tells Felicity because it drives me crazy when characters hide stuff like this from each other, just so the writers can add a bit more relationship drama to the show.

I am afraid he won't. That was the heavily foreshadowed by the aborted timeline where Felicity lost all trust in him and all but ended the relationship right there on the spot.
She will inevitably find out and that will cause more severe drama.

This was the dumbest thing Ollie could have done, not telling her.
Where is the harm in Felicity knowing?

Exactly, it's just plain stupid on all levels and really unneeded. Just for once i'd like to see lead characters do a sensible thing and come forward with a secret. In the first reality (pre Barry timewarping) Felicity hit it on the spot with her remark about Ollie not trusting her.

She knows all (well, most of it) about him, his playboy lifestyle before the marooning on the Island and becoming Arrow so there may have been consequences from that life. Olli is a very different man now and there is zero risk of this kid doing any harmful thing to their relationship or anything else so there's zero reason other than the producers wanting to add some tension and drama where realistically speaking there shouldn't be.

Tarnished the entire episode which was otherwise pretty nice (and i hope Barry gets to expand his powers more besides needing absolute crisis events to pull them off).

 

[Alidar Jarok]

He kind of redeemed himself in the Justice League Unlimited episode "Hereafter". It was one of the most memorable episodes I've seen.

I was talking about Merlyn there, not Savage. Specifically Malcolm Merlyn from the show.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Is nobody commenting on the fact that Malcom just became irredeemable evil again by helping Randal Savage (somehow) back to life presumably and thereby causing doom for the entire world and making the Legends team necessary in the first place?

Vandal Savage, not Randall. He's always been irredeemably evil. I don't know what you mean by again.

Randall Savage?

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C4lK41SX-Q[/yt]

 

[The Old Mixer]

My new theory is Ollie's son.

Thinking about it, that makes a lot of sense. Several factors add up:

1) That they'd focus so much on that particular subplot in this story, which connects with...
2) ...Barry's foreshadowing of the potential consequences of his time travel, and very specifically in relation to how Ollie deals with the secret of his son, which connects with...
3) ...having Barry share that future post-funeral scene with Ollie. When the actual event occurs, they'd want him there to emphasize the connection with the crossover story.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Wrong Dove. Dawn is a woman and unrelated,

You kids and your female Doves! Git offa mah lawn! (Actually, the new female Dove showed up back shortly before I stopped collecting comics - I just didn't like it. DON was an interesting character because of whom he was and his fighting style. The female Dove seemed like someone decided that the character needed to be a chick to act like that or else it "might be kinda gay" or something, which is NOT cool.)

Kid? I was reading Hawk and Dove back when they debuted in Showcase!!!

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I'm afraid I found part one to be vastly superior to part two. Part one was total crossover awesomeness, while part two was 50% groan inducing baby mama drama. The other half was still cool though

I caught an episode or two before but this has been my first year really watching the shows and this crossover just seemed to embody how Flash has generally been the better of the two from what I've seen. Arrow just let all the heat generated by the first half fizzle out.

 

[Mr Light]

I actually prefer Arrow at this point. I barely tolerated the first two years of the show, and finally got into it in the third season, and I really think they're firing on all cylinders now with an entire team of superheroes working together against superpowered villains. The horribly uninteresting teen melodrama is mostly eliminated now, which is why the baby mama subplot of this episode was so odious. It was very Season One

 

[Christopher]

The horribly uninteresting teen melodrama is mostly eliminated now...

I always find it so odd when people stick the "teen melodrama" label on this show, when the only regular character who was a teenager at the start of the series was Thea. Even Roy was 22 when he first appeared.

 

[UssGlenn]

There was a fun Easter egg during the Egypt flashback I haven't seen anyone mention anywhere. There is a quick pan across shaking objects on a table. The bird figurine on the right is the Maltese Falcon, with its back towards the camera.

 

[sojourner]

The horribly uninteresting teen melodrama is mostly eliminated now...

I always find it so odd when people stick the "teen melodrama" label on this show, when the only regular character who was a teenager at the start of the series was Thea. Even Roy was 22 when he first appeared.

Because they don't literally mean "teen". It's an emphasis on the sophomoric nature of the romances.

can someone quote my post so Christopher will see it?

 

[M.A.C.O.]

At the Barton farm.

 

[Reverend]

A million years ago (11 years ago?) Hawk and Dove (animated) were played by Fred Savage and Jason Hervey, who a million years ago (29 years ago?) played the brothers on The Wonder Years.

Weird.

Fred played Hawk?

Bigger role for a bigger star, but frankly unless Jason is a real sweety, he feels more like Hawk to me based on reruns of the Wonder Years.

From what I gather that was the intent, but once they got them in the recording booth they realised it worked so much better the opposite way round. It turns out that actors aren't always exactly like the characters they're known to portray.

They're like the Dominic Monaghan and Billy Boyd of nostalgic comedy dramas and superhero cartoons. Except I don't think Columbo ever told bedtime stories to Hobbits.

He kind of redeemed himself in the Justice League Unlimited episode "Hereafter". It was one of the most memorable episodes I've seen.

Yeah after he destroyed the world he had a lot of time to think about his new goals and decided to take up knitting. Probably the best use on an immortal in a post apocalyptic future I've ever seen. I love how confused and on-edge Clark was during the whole thing, like he expected robot henchmen to leap out of the hydroponics garden at any moment.

The horribly uninteresting teen melodrama is mostly eliminated now...

I always find it so odd when people stick the "teen melodrama" label on this show, when the only regular character who was a teenager at the start of the series was Thea. Even Roy was 22 when he first appeared.

Because they don't literally mean "teen". It's an emphasis on the sophomoric nature of the romances.

can someone quote my post so Christopher will see it?

I would but I'm pretty sure he's blocking me too. Oh wait, I just did anyway. Nevermind.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The horribly uninteresting teen melodrama is mostly eliminated now...

I always find it so odd when people stick the "teen melodrama" label on this show, when the only regular character who was a teenager at the start of the series was Thea. Even Roy was 22 when he first appeared.

Because they don't literally mean "teen". It's an emphasis on the sophomoric nature of the romances.

can someone quote my post so Christopher will see it?

Or melodrama aimed at a teen audience.

Hope that works for you, soj.

And yeah, that's my least favorite aspect of this show...I've been trying to slog through the earlier seasons off and on via Netflix to catch up, but it's a bit of a chore.

 

[Christopher]

No, I think it's just lazy stereotyping of CW shows. People see it as a "teen network" and so they assume all its shows are teen-driven, even though hardly any of them actually are. I mean, what, people in their 20s don't have melodramatic relationships? That's not the way I remember college. If anything, relationships between people in their 20s are even more high-stakes and melodramatic, because there's the possibility of commitment and marriage and the tension between romance and career.

 

[sojourner]

No, I think it's just lazy stereotyping of CW shows. People see it as a "teen network" and so they assume all its shows are teen-driven, even though hardly any of them actually are. I mean, what, people in their 20s don't have melodramatic relationships? That's not the way I remember college. If anything, relationships between people in their 20s are even more high-stakes and melodramatic, because there's the possibility of commitment and marriage and the tension between romance and career.

But your previous post specifically referenced that no one on the show was actually a teen in age. If the above is what you meant, why harp on people using "teen" and the age of the actors? We all know they are not actually teens and what was meant by "teen melodrama", yet you felt the need to point out that the actors aren't actually teens. As if everyone was making some mistake.

 

[davejames]

Yeah that whole Oliver/Felicity storyline was just strange on a LOT of levels. On the one hand it was silly that the mother wanted him to keep it a secret, and on the other it was silly that Felicity seemed so completely unsympathetic to what Oliver was going through (having just learned he had a son for the first time), and only seemed to care about how betrayed she felt.

Of course frankly the entire Oliver/Felicity relationship always felt forced to me to begin with. Obviously it was fun and made sense that she might have a crush on the guy early on, but the show never convinced me that Oliver had any great romantic interest in her in any way. In fact most of the time he just seemed to grit his teeth and look slightly annoyed anytime she would say anything.

 

[tomalak301]

Yeah that whole Oliver/Felicity storyline was just strange on a LOT of levels. On the one hand it was silly that the mother wanted him to keep it a secret, and on the other it was silly that Felicity seemed so completely unsympathetic to what Oliver was going through (having just learned he had a son for the first time), and only seemed to care about how betrayed she felt.

Of course frankly the entire Oliver/Felicity relationship always felt forced to me to begin with. Obviously it was fun and made sense that she might have a crush on the guy early on, but the show never convinced me that Oliver had any great romantic interest in her in any way. In fact most of the time he just seemed to grit his teeth and look slightly annoyed anytime she would say anything.

I haven't seen Arrow other than this last week's episode, but it seems like Felicity has more chemistry with Barry than Oliver. Maybe that's a meet and smile at first sight thing.

 

[Christopher]

Of course frankly the entire Oliver/Felicity relationship always felt forced to me to begin with. Obviously it was fun and made sense that she might have a crush on the guy early on, but the show never convinced me that Oliver had any great romantic interest in her in any way.

Seriously? I think they have great chemistry. I think Emily Bett-Rickards has terrific chemistry with everyone.

And how could it be forced? That makes no sense in context. In the comics, the Green Arrow's great love is the Black Canary. Laurel was set up to be Oliver's love interest, and Felicity was initially just an occasional guest star. But Rickards was so engaging that they made her role bigger, and she turned out to have better romantic chemistry with Amell than Katie Cassidy did, so the writers went with that instead of the canonical pairing.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Did anyone see the closed-captioned spelling of Kendra's "real" name? It sounded like they were saying "Chay-ara" rather than Shayera or Shiera. Heck, there was one point (in part 1, I think) where Caspar Crump pronounced it "Sharara."

Chayara is her Egyptian name (Since the 90s IIRC) Shayera is her Thanagarian name. Shiera was her Human/Modern name till they introed Kendra in the JSA series from the early 2000s.

The Ancient Egypt flashbacks were really cheesy, and had the perennial problem of casting mostly white people (and one Latina) as ancient Egyptians. And Cisco's rationale for coining the name "Nth metal" was entirely feeble.

I doubt they were going to spend the money for different actors to play Carter and Kendra's earlier incarnations. Viewer confusion might have played apart as well. The only other significant role was Ramses. No idea who played him. The extras looked to be non white.