The Pon Farr plot hole

[Tracy Trek]

Was their ever an in-series* (canon) explanation how Spock handled things when his second or subsequent pon farrs happened. Amok Time was in the second season. So the first seven year deadline would have fell sometime between the events of The Motion picture and The Wrath of Khan, right?** Did he have another bond-mate after T'Pring? Perhaps resolution through intense meditation.

*Or even a reference in one of the novels.
**I read once that the time passed for the characters between the last episode of the series and TMP was not as long as the 10 years that had passed for the actors.

In the Search for Spock, it is insinuated that Saavik "helped" the young (but rapidly aging) Spock. But this was a special case where things were not normal.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Where would this in-series explanation take place? There is no canon between TMP and TWOK. The next movies happen shortly after TWOK so there's nothing there either. The next canon appearance is in TNG. Apparently a son of Sarek gets married prior to TNG. Could be Spock or maybe Sarek has another son.

So you're left with the books.

 

[BillJ]

I don't see the plot hole?

 

[Tim Thomason]

Was their ever an in-series* (canon) explanation how Spock handled things when his second or subsequent pon farrs happened. Amok Time was in the second season. So the first seven year deadline would have fell sometime between the events of The Motion picture and The Wrath of Khan, right?** Did he have another bond-mate after T'Pring? Perhaps resolution through intense meditation.

*Or even a reference in one of the novels.
**I read once that the time passed for the characters between the last episode of the series and TMP was not as long as the 10 years that had passed for the actors.

In the Search for Spock, it is insinuated that Saavik "helped" the young (but rapidly aging) Spock. But this was a special case where things were not normal.

Never in-canon. Canon pon farrs would've been in 2274, 2281, 2288, 2295 [...] 2365, 2372, 2379, 2386 [...] and AR 2264, assuming the 7 years is close to even and not 7.5 years or something. No years where we've observed Spock's activities. His pon farrs (and age in general) might be a bit off though, following the events of his resurrection in TSS, where I believe he did suffer from an early pon farr probably due to that form's lack of mental bonding to delay the effects.

In novels, I'm only familiar with the DTI book "Forgotten History", set in 2274 with Spock hanging his hat with an alternate version of T'Pring (what luck!). The author, who posts here often, also mentioned on this board an '80s book dealing with Spock's second pon farr, but I don't recall which book that was (a Vonda McIntyre one, possibly).

Disregarding the novels, I imagine Spock could just handle things a bit better by scheduling his shore leave appropriately and letting the Vulcan masters deal with any psychological issues that pop up around Pon farr time. Or maybe they have a logical alternative available in Vulcan Vegas.

 

[Tracy Trek]

Maybe I chose my topic title wrong. I just wondered what other fan theories were about this. That there were more seven year intervals where (as far as we know) he didn't have a bond-mate. The reference from the TNG episode Sarek would have been when Picard was a young man. So well past the time period of the original series movies.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Fan theories by definition aren't canon.

1) Spock has a bond-mate, we just never meet them.

2) The events of Amok Time burned out the "urge" for all time.

3) Spock has found away to control it, because he's Spock!

4) Being half human it was a one time deal.

 

[drt]

4) Being half human it was a one time deal.

it was mentioned in Amok Time that he had never had one previously on the normal Vulcan schedule, we could possibly infer that his later Pon Farrs were equally erratic, he may not have had another for say 27 years or something.

 

[FormerLurker]

I live by the theory that the pon farr in SFS is only an echo, similar to a race-memory, due to the fact that pon farr affects the mind, and Spock's mind was in McCoy at that particular time. All the theories and BTS rigmarole about Saavik carrying Spock's child are speculation at best, and the finger thing Saavik does at least puts on the appearance of giving Spock's mindless body all it needs to get through the process. He visibly calms when she does it.

 

[johnnybear]

4) Being half human it was a one time deal.

it was mentioned in Amok Time that he had never had one previously on the normal Vulcan schedule, we could possibly infer that his later Pon Farrs were equally erratic, he may not have had another for say 27 years or something.

I can't say I remember them saying that! I assumed that he had been through it before and had been on Vulcan at the time!
JB

 

[Terok Nor]

He "handled" things with a copy of Vulcan Love Slave.

Vulcans. Common sense is not logical.

 

[Timo]

And that's the problem with "Amok Time": it tells us basically nothing about the Vulcan pon farr. It only really describes pon farr as applying to a Vulcan-human hybrid.

Spock: "Nor am I a man. I'm a Vulcan. I'd hoped I would be spared this, but the ancient drives are too strong. Eventually, they catch up with us, and we are driven by forces we cannot control to return home and take a wife. Or die."

The "not a man" part might suggest that Spock is describing the exclusively and purely Vulcan phenomenon here, and saying that it might be avoided by a Vulcan with iron will - and that Spock had flattered himself with the thought of being one. It's only in light of other events that it appears Spock is saying he skipped the usual Vulcan onset of pon farr and placed his hopes on that, rather than on personal hubris.

It's something of a fan theory that Spock and T'Pring had never met between the bonding at age seven and the date of "Amok Time". For all we know, they had been making out like bunnies for every waking hour Spock didn't spend in Starfleet duties. If so, Spock could have gotten the seven-year itch several times (at fourteen and twenty-one and twenty-eight at least, supposedly) but there would have been no symptoms to worry about.

In the broader context, though, the assumption that Spock had never experienced pon farr and indeed never did may make the best sense. Not being fully Vulcan, he could shrug it off without either taking a wife or dying. And after shaking it off once, he could do it with trivial ease in later years.

The other assumption could be that all pon farr does is summon the males to the place where the bonding took place (this usually being Vulcan). Spock and any full Vulcan in a similar jam could go there, sneer once, and go back, and never worry about "wives" again as the one and only bonding with one would now be off his shoulders.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kor]

**I read once that the time passed for the characters between the last episode of the series and TMP was not as long as the 10 years that had passed for the actors.

I believe the Okudas' chronology placed TMP only a couple years after the five-year mission.

When Robert Wise was actually making the movie, the assumption was that the events were taking place a decade after the series, since that's how much time had passed in real life (according to some interview footage that came with the DE).

Kor

 

[drt]

**I read once that the time passed for the characters between the last episode of the series and TMP was not as long as the 10 years that had passed for the actors.

I believe the Okudas' chronology placed TMP only a couple years after the five-year mission.

When Robert Wise was actually making the movie, the assumption was that the events were taking place a decade after the series, since that's how much time had passed in real life (according to some interview footage that came with the DE).

Kor

The dialog supports the Okuda's, but it is open to interpretation - Kirk states that he was put in command due to five years dealing with the unknown, to which Decker responds that he hasn't logged a single star hour in two-and-a-half years. Most fans link the two directly, but Kirk could have had a stint as a commodore in the heart of the Federation, which would allow logging star hours, but perhaps dealing with more mundane tasks than encountering the unknown on a five-year deep space mission. Kirk obviously dealt with unknowns in his pre-captain assignments, but chose not to mention that experience as an advantage.

 

[Melakon]

With Spock being a hybrid, and that Vulcans can mate whenever they want outside of the pon farr urge, it's possible the cycle is less frequent than seven years , or not cyclical for him at all. For all we know, as a half-human, he and Chapel may have been sneaking visits together in their quarters or a sickbay broom closet.

 

[Terok Nor]

**I read once that the time passed for the characters between the last episode of the series and TMP was not as long as the 10 years that had passed for the actors.

I believe the Okudas' chronology placed TMP only a couple years after the five-year mission.

When Robert Wise was actually making the movie, the assumption was that the events were taking place a decade after the series, since that's how much time had passed in real life (according to some interview footage that came with the DE).

Kor

The dialog supports the Okuda's, but it is open to interpretation - Kirk states that he was put in command due to five years dealing with the unknown, to which Decker responds that he hasn't logged a single star hour in two-and-a-half years. Most fans link the two directly, but Kirk could have had a stint as a commodore in the heart of the Federation, which would allow logging star hours, but perhaps dealing with more mundane tasks than encountering the unknown on a five-year deep space mission. Kirk obviously dealt with unknowns in his pre-captain assignments, but chose not to mention that experience as an advantage.

Now that The Animated Series is canon again it pushes The Motion Picture further along the timeline (I think). 10 years later always suited me fine. It's open to interpretation but I prefer it being a decade later than 2 years.

 

[Scotchy]

He did get it on with Mariette Hartley in All Our Yesterdays, according to a book written later she even had his kid. The events of that episode also saw his temporary reversion to the extreme hostility of ancient Vulcans. Any of those events might have altered or reset his mating impulses.
Or they just let him throw bowls of Vulcan plomeek soup at Nurse Chapel whenever he got horny.

 

[Tim Thomason]

I believe the Okudas' chronology placed TMP only a couple years after the five-year mission.

When Robert Wise was actually making the movie, the assumption was that the events were taking place a decade after the series, since that's how much time had passed in real life (according to some interview footage that came with the DE).

Kor

The dialog supports the Okuda's, but it is open to interpretation - Kirk states that he was put in command due to five years dealing with the unknown, to which Decker responds that he hasn't logged a single star hour in two-and-a-half years. Most fans link the two directly, but Kirk could have had a stint as a commodore in the heart of the Federation, which would allow logging star hours, but perhaps dealing with more mundane tasks than encountering the unknown on a five-year deep space mission. Kirk obviously dealt with unknowns in his pre-captain assignments, but chose not to mention that experience as an advantage.

Now that The Animated Series is canon again it pushes The Motion Picture further along the timeline (I think). 10 years later always suited me fine. It's open to interpretation but I prefer it being a decade later than 2 years.

The Animated Series doesn't really effect the timeline at all, since they are by definition part of the five-year mission that the Original Series already established. The only reason that The Motion Picture was pushed from a vague 2271 placement (in the Okuda Chronology and Encyclopedia) to a vague 2273 placement (in more modern sources) is due to a line in the Voyager episode Q2 pinning the five-year mission from 2265 to 2270.

Two and a half years, minimum, have to pass between the end of the mission and the movie, due to Decker's line

 

[Drone]

It's something of a fan theory that Spock and T'Pring had never met between the bonding at age seven and the date of "Amok Time". For all we know, they had been making out like bunnies for every waking hour Spock didn't spend in Starfleet duties.
Timo Saloniemi

Apropos of nothing, your rendering of this image struck me out of the blue as being as incongruous as when Major West mocks incredulity at the thought of Dr. Smith ever having been a teenager in The Oasis.

Marked and catalogued as my random thought of the....year?

Sorry for the intrusion and please carry on.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I don't see the plot hole

Ditto.*

* - Question mark deleted. There is no plot hole, so no explanation regarding one is needed.

 

[Timo]

Two and a half years, minimum, have to pass between the end of the mission and the movie, due to Decker's line.

Another Decker line, stating that Voyager Six disappeared more than 300 years ago, would also seem to support the "full 300 years after the premiere of the movie" dating paradigm the writers apparently followed... The first Voyager in our universe was only launched in 1977, so a 2278 or later date would be suggested. Unless the two universes differ in that detail as well.

We only get one halfway solid immediate upper limit for the date: in "Cause and Effect", a ship declared missing in 2278 already has a crew wearing the ST2:TWoK style uniforms, when in ST:TMP everybody on and off Earth is wearing something completely different. Beyond that, there are "soft" limits from ST2 dialogue where TOS is said to have happened about fifteen years prior, not twenty or thirty.

The first time we hit something truly rock solid is ST6:TUC that absolutely must take place in 2293, plus minus less than one year. But that's not a predicted pon farr year and thus affects nothing.

Timo Saloniemi