Do you think LGBT characters will feature more prominently?

[borgboy]

It's amazingly simple - use the word "wife" or "husband" to describe someone's same-sex partner. "Ensign Manly Manliness' husband was injured recently and he is taking time off to be by his side."

Or somewhere like TenForward and one person casually says "Oh that Ensign Manliness's new boyfriend."

All I'm asking is that it isn't so incredible subtle that it's unclear or in doubt.

*************

I was under the impression (I don't follow the novels) that Lt. Hawk wasn't in the Titan novels, having been killed by Worf in First Contact.

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Sorry I was unclear. Hawk's partner Keru is the one who's in Titan - he also is in the DS9 Trill novella in the Worlds of DS9 trilogy.

And I completely understand why there wasn't a gay character in TOS, but over time it became increasingly possible and thus worse that it wasn't happening. There were gay characters on dramas like Melrose Place, during DS9, Willow came out as a lesbian during Voyager (forgive me if I'm slightly off on the time frames, but it's approximate). Ellen and Will and Grace were popular around the same time as Enterprise. It was inexcusable that Enterprise didn't have a gay character, especially when they tried to do a poorly thought out "gay metaphor" with telepathic rapists on Vulcan. Other popular shows broke new ground with gay characters while Trek played it safe and failed to live up to it's reputation for doing social relevance with their sci fi.
And then the JJ movies just added insult to injure that they still couldn't bother to include diversity (but had time for gratuitous underwear scenes)

 

[hux]

TNG had a gender-fluid guest character, and DS9 followed that up with a gender-fluid regular character. Enterprise had a polygamist character. I don't think you're being fair.

It was all a little tentative though. TOS was much more aggressive in its representation of racial harmony and pluralism. The follow up shows dabbled, touched-on and gently winked at otherness but didn't show any meaningful conviction. Who was the DS9 gender-fluid character?

Could they have done more? Undoubtedly. Could they have done more and managed to get it shown during the time they were filming in?

But as I mentioned in an earlier post, why would it have been difficult to show any of this in the 90's. Family friendly sitcoms like F.r.i.e.n.d.s regularly mentioned or had gay characters. The idea that the 90's (or even the 80's for that matter) were a radically different time just doesn't convince. Would a gay character have upset some viewers? Probably. Did a black woman in a position of authority upset some viewers in the 60's? Definitely.

Yet TOS didn't seem too bothered about that.

So what was the difference?

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

We need gay characters absolutely.
At this point though, a main character being Muslim would be more controversial, and would very much be in the spirit of TOS showing people descended from former enemy nation working together in peace and friendship.
Not that the Muslim couldn't also be gay.

What about casting Omar Sharif Jr as the Gay Jewish-Muslim First Officer? How's that for some interesting diversity

 

[BillJ]

So what was the difference?

It wasn't a "franchise" in the 1960's. Later on, they weren't going to do anything that would upset the cash cow Trek had become.

Hence, you had a far more conservative product.

 

[Squiggy]

SCOTUS affirmed the right of interracial marriage in 1967 with "the kiss" airing late in 68. So, at least in the terms of public awareness of the issue, it was already decided when the episode aired (even if public approval was only at 20% at the time).

I also give TNG a pass. Same-sex relationships was still too much of a "fringe" issue in the late 80s and early 90s. It didn't reach the same 20% until probably the mid 90s (it was at 27% until 96.

DS9 or Voyager could've touched it. Certainly Enterprise

 

[T'Girl]

All That Glitters premiered on April 18, 1977, and ran for 65 episodes. It featured the character of Linda Murkland, the first transgender regular on American television. She was a fashion model.

All My Children in 1982 had it's first gay character, psychiatrist Dr. Lynn Carson. All My Children was a fairly conservative show.

 

[XManRCJ]

Star Trek's never been about the main characters causing the drama about race, religion, sexuality, etc. It's always been the aliens, from Cheron, Kaelon, J'naii, Trill, Zalkon.

So the best you'd get about preaching to the choir from ST would be the crew rescuing two same sex aliens from a escape pod, and then the warship showing up wanting them back to kill them and the crew being like "You want to kill them because of what?!?!"

Sides this is ST, it took how long for Riker and Troi to get married? Any of sort of gay character would just have a fling of the week, and we know how well that would go over...

 

[BillJ]

SCOTUS affirmed the right of interracial marriage in 1967 with "the kiss" airing late in 68. So, at least in the terms of public awareness of the issue, it was already decided when the episode aired (even if public approval was only at 20% at the time).

I also give TNG a pass. Same-sex relationships was still too much of a "fringe" issue in the late 80s and early 90s. It didn't reach the same 20% until probably the mid 90s (it was at 27% until 96.

DS9 or Voyager could've touched it. Certainly Enterprise

We had Soap in 1977.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_(TV_series)

TNG having a LGBT character wouldn't have daring, as gay characters had been showing up in primetime for at least a decade.

 

[Kaijima]

Trek is definitely far overdue for addressing the subject directly and Trek, historically, was always a show of strong opinions and advocating for a world as it ought to be, regardless of how it is today. (Even if Trek, over time, became increasingly watered down and abstract about concepts relevant to real life social and political commentary.)

I'm fond of the idea that Trek could approach the subject by going beyond the current pop culture cliches straight to an assumed universal pan-sexuality - where the idea of people worrying about sexual orientation and gender taboos is weird and even pretty funny. Like looking at sepia-toned photographs of people riding enormous bicycles while wearing huge impractical dresses for "propriety".

 

[HIjol]

Through all the humor and incredible talent, "Soap" did a pretty good job, in my opinion. It is as many of you have already Posted, very simple to write LGBT characters in into the Trek world. I guess what is hard is TPTB having the courage and recognizing the need and appropriateness of actually including LGBT characters.

 

[T'Girl]

I'm fond of the idea that Trek could approach the subject by going beyond the current pop culture cliches straight to an assumed universal pan-sexuality

Don't know if I'd agree with that, while there are people who are pan-sexual, the majority aren't. To have "universal pan-sexuality" you'd either have to change people at a genetic level to accomplish this, or have a societal mandate that compels non-pan-sexuals to adopt a pan-sexual lifestyle.

Which I would have a problem with.

.

 

[USS Triumphant]

To have "universal pan-sexuality" you'd either have to change people at a genetic level to accomplish this, or have a societal mandate that compels non-pan-sexuals to adopt a pan-sexual lifestyle.

I politely suggest that you don't understand pansexuality. It isn't that they are attracted to ALL genders or sexual identities, it's that they don't prejudge what types of people they WILL be attracted to. They just let what will be will be without worrying about whether it is "gay" or "straight" or whatever.

 

[Rincewiend]

TNG had a gender-fluid guest character, and DS9 followed that up with a gender-fluid regular character. Enterprise had a polygamist character. I don't think you're being fair.

It was all a little tentative though. TOS was much more aggressive in its representation of racial harmony and pluralism. The follow up shows dabbled, touched-on and gently winked at otherness but didn't show any meaningful conviction. Who was the DS9 gender-fluid character?

I would guess Garak, he showed interest in Bashir and later in Tora Ziyal...

 

[jefferiestubes8]

I really think they have to at this point. Part of the legacy of the franchise was that it had a diverse crew in a time when TV was almost all white. It's really odd that Trek hasn't already had a LGBT crewmember.

Re: the thread title Do you think LGBT characters will feature more prominently?
Well on a scale of 1 to 10:
in plot a 1 for season "1".
in character development a "2" for season 1
in human relationships a "1" for season 1.
I think one crewmember will be LGBT but it will be downplayed for season 1 with only 1 episode having a LGBT storyline as a B story especially since LGBT History Month is in October and the show starts in January and will most likely be 10-13 episodes and it won't be the bump in marketing the show may use.
I think season 2 would get into character development more and that is when you will see a story about LGBT issues being a human rights issue plot done in a sci-fi alien story way.
I think in season 2 there will be more guest stars that are LGBT.

 

[hux]

TNG had a gender-fluid guest character, and DS9 followed that up with a gender-fluid regular character. Enterprise had a polygamist character. I don't think you're being fair.

It was all a little tentative though. TOS was much more aggressive in its representation of racial harmony and pluralism. The follow up shows dabbled, touched-on and gently winked at otherness but didn't show any meaningful conviction. Who was the DS9 gender-fluid character?

I would guess Garak, he showed interest in Bashir and later in Tora Ziyal...

Garak!? Well maybe there's some subtle interpretation that might lead you to speculate he's potentially bisexual (but it would be very subtle) but I certainly don't see any gender-fluidity with him.

 

[BillJ]

Garak!? Well maybe there's some subtle interpretation that might lead you to speculate he's potentially bisexual (but it would be very subtle) but I certainly don't see any gender-fluidity with him.

Then you weren't paying attention.

 

[borgboy]

I really think they have to at this point. Part of the legacy of the franchise was that it had a diverse crew in a time when TV was almost all white. It's really odd that Trek hasn't already had a LGBT crewmember.

Re: the thread title Do you think LGBT characters will feature more prominently?
Well on a scale of 1 to 10:
in plot a 1 for season "1".
in character development a "2" for season 1
in human relationships a "1" for season 1.
I think one crewmember will be LGBT but it will be downplayed for season 1 with only 1 episode having a LGBT storyline as a B story especially since LGBT History Month is in October and the show starts in January and will most likely be 10-13 episodes and it won't be the bump in marketing the show may use.
I think season 2 would get into character development more and that is when you will see a story about LGBT issues being a human rights issue plot done in a sci-fi alien story way.
I think in season 2 there will be more guest stars that are LGBT.

If they can't be bothered to do character development in the first season, then they may not get a second season. And honestly, if their commitment to the characters is no better than that, they don't deserve to get a second season.

 

[Michael]

TNG had a gender-fluid guest character, and DS9 followed that up with a gender-fluid regular character.

Who was the DS9 gender-fluid character?

I would guess Garak, he showed interest in Bashir and later in Tora Ziyal...

Gender identity is separate from sexual or romantic orientation. I'd guess USS Triumphant is talking about Jadzia Dax.

 

[borgboy]

Even Jadzia and Ezri weren't really gender fluid. They definitely seemed all female, they just carried the memories of their symbiote's past hosts, male and female. You can see Trills as a metaphor for trans people, but I wouldn't go so far as to say we've seen any characters who were actually gender fluid.

Garek definitely comes off as bisexual, which is what the actors says he intended. It's also noteworthy that in the later season he barely ever interacts with Bashir. I think tptb were scared of all the homoerotic tension between the two of them and tried their best to cool things off by limiting their scenes together.
The novels, including A Stitch in Time written by Garek's actor Andrew Robinson, confirms both Garek's bisexuality and his interest in Bashir, which seems to be unrequited.

 

[hux]

Garak!? Well maybe there's some subtle interpretation that might lead you to speculate he's potentially bisexual (but it would be very subtle) but I certainly don't see any gender-fluidity with him.

Then you weren't paying attention.

I wasn't paying attention to Garak identifying as the female gender? Clearly. I'd be thrilled if you could tell me where I went wrong.